Music and Skating

[Olympia]

I think where we sometimes go wrong is by confusing facial expression with musicality. Maybe we need to recognize that it's possible to emote with the body as well as the face. What a skater's feeling, emotionally, may have a more subtle expression on the face and still move me because of their overall expression, but no amount of facial contortion can move me if the skater is not interpreting the music with his/her body.

Since you mention Jeremy , let's just take him as an example .( Though there are many others) He feels the music with his whole body..and not just each beat , but every 1/2 and 1/4 beat in between, so that his movements fill all of the music, and if he moves into half time, or double time, or some little syncopation, he can always come smoothly and perfectly back into time. All of the music is used. Watching him, we experience the music fully through his movements.

Some skaters have this ability naturally , some might have gained it through some form of dance training ( or Gymnastics , or whatever).. it can be taught , to a degree. Those who are naturally gifted will probably always be better , but anyone can improve. I'm just talking about being one with the music here, apart from position, line etc.

E.G. In adult recreational dance classes , you can often see results immediately, when students learn to use that.. "AND"..before the beat..breathe in on the AND, begin...if they're jumpimg , knee bend on the AND, spring..arm movements, slight lift of the arm or reverse motion AND,begin..Eventually many will be using it on their own without being reminded, and their overall musicality improves.

The "It" factor can add an extra dimension...but it just annoys me when it's all used in the promotion of the skater and the program becomes incidental. Plushenko is the major offender here. Amazing athlete..programs bore me to tears. It all looks the same and they're all about " I'm #1..I can moonwalk..I can stand still and wiggle my pelvis."..what a waste of a phenomenal talent.

I pretty much agree with you on all these points, and you stated them eloquently. I especially agree that musicality comes from the whole body, not just the face making "expressions." I love when a skater is able to use the rhythm of the music and make it come alive the way you describe Jeremy doing. I'm going to check his routines on YouTube and look much more carefully for what you pointed out. Of course, another great master of this is Kurt Browning. I still remember that wonderful pro routine he did to songs of Nat King Cole. It was as if the music was coming right out of Browning instead of a tape machine.

 

[janetfan]

I just came across this and thought it was a pretty good performance from a 13 year old.......it's Naomi Nari Nam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAUwZ74Qs_o&feature=related

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Colleen is absolutely correct and that's all there is to "artisty" - body language, and Jeremy is among the few that have it Use of ballet-like arms is just not enough. ask yourself, why do you like that giselle ] from a 30 year old ballerina, more than that new 18 year old who danced it last season? they both have the same steps and tricks but which one really knows what giselle has been through only to become a ghost. It takes a lot of feeling from the soul and a good head for music. Some are just gifted. No grimaces, it's all in the movements of the body.

If you believe figure skating is a form of dance like, tap, folk, ballroom, ballet, modern, etc, then few have it on skates. It's all about the points as a competition should be. On that rare competition evening we may see a skater showing the tricks with the soul.

 

[colleen o'neill]

Kurt was always very naturally musical..and we saw that grow even more when he started taking dance training seriously. You remind me I've been meaning to search Youtube.. he once did a wowzie exhibition skate to Peggy Lee's "Johnny Guitar", (there was some one foot virtuoso stuff in it) might have been his Casablanca year, not sure. He didn't keep it long , I think it was also at the time he was developing back problems..

The US is very fortunate to have so many musical male skaters right now , not least of which is Adam Rippon, who might overshadow them all in a year or two. I love that kid.

The Olympic men's competition is awash in musical male skaters..lucky us! I finally got brave enough to watch Euro's men last night.
Stephane has 2 marvelous programs. I hope he'll be back physically , musically he's as great as ever...Then we have Takahasi,Kozuka,Oda,Abbott,.Chan.. )Yes,Chan , even those who don't like his style ought to recognize his musicality) , Lysacek is not un-musical, the Gershwin program proved that...maybe Contesti, too . It should be a feast.

 

[janetfan]

Here is a skater with musical interpretation I always enjoyed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc6IEA-hMYU

It's Jeff Buttle from '09 Japan Open.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I agree with pretty much colleen o'neill said :thumbsup:

Naomi, Jeremey, Sasha and Stephane all have that wonderful unteachable qulaity that we call "it." I think Mirai has it too, but to a lesser degree. Skaters who do not have it can still delived wonderful, musical programs. PLushenko has done it, Racheal's SIng Sing SIng suceeded in that area. But they have to put an effort into it. I think Jeremey will make any program to any msuic look musical, and that he will hit all the notes no matter who chreographs the program or what music it is too. Sasha was the same. Maybe she the Rhianna program wasn't in her element, but she still hit every note of music.

 

[shine]

I don't think Cohen is/was ever musical the way that Abbott or Lambiel are musical. For one her programs tended to be generic. For two, there were probably two kinds of expressions that she did: fiery, and angsty. I don't think she was ever a versatile skater.
But to each his own.

 

[Mathman]

I just came across this and thought it was a pretty good performance from a 13 year old.......it's Naomi Nari Nam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAUwZ74Qs_o&feature=related

For that performance, not only did NNN win the cute award, they retired the trophy.

That's from a Kristi Yamaguchi Christmas show, about a month before Naomi's first appearance at senior Nationals. (If you can find Kristi doing Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer from the same show, in a fur-lined red Santa Claus dress, you've hit the cute jackpot. )

When the cast took its bow, Kristi (wiley showbiz veteran that she was), knew she couldn't beat that, so she gave Naomi the last bow to make sure to milk the maximum applause from the audience.

 

[janetfan]

For that performance, not only did NNN win the cute award, they retired the trophy.

That's from a Kristi Yamaguchi Christmas show, about a month before Naomi's first appearance at senior Nationals. (If you can find Kristi doing Rudolph the Red-nosed Reindeer from the same show, in a fur-lined red Santa Claus dress, you've hit the cute jackpot. )

When the cast took its bow, Kristi (wiley showbiz veteran that she was), knew she couldn't beat that, so she gave Naomi the last bow to make sure to milk the maximum applause from the audience.

I never saw that Naomi clip before today and decided to post it because I could not resist such cuteness -
I don't think I ever saw Kristi in the red Santa Claus dress either.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I remember Adam in that little comp they hold every year in NYC called MidAtlantics. I said to myself, Self, he will be the next talked about skater.

From you post, only Oda, in my opinion, is very special who puts his body to work. The others you mentioned are fine skaters but they are strictly choreographed and without that soul thing I mentioned. To me, they are good standard skaters, even Evan.

Check out Michal Brezina on youtube to see my best bet as a musical soul skater.

For me, it's Michal, Nobunari and Jeremy for a vote on most musical, and of course, Stephane

Question: What's with the Ladies? They all skate the same to me. Only the tricks differ.

 

[janetfan]

Here is what Button thinks about Sasha:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5ZsGNQ0K7s&feature=related


It is pretty clear what Button thinks of Sasha's musicality and dance skills.
She was unique.

 

[jennylovskt]

I love Lambiel and Abbott the most out of any skater, because to me they are the most musical dancers. Watching them brings SO much joy to me. A lot of times I find myself rewinding to watch parts of their program just for a simple move they did, such an arm movement, a tilt of the head, or a stretched neck. Lambiel's style tends to be more outwardly theatrical and emotional and Abbott tends to be more introverted, or "cerebral", as someone recently stated. But neither of them misses a beat and phrases the music with their entire body. Being musical really is the most important thing to me when it comes to enjoying a skater. And for some reason, these truly musical skater also tend to have awesome skating skills. Somehow they go hand in hand.

That's what I have been doing these days. To rewind the video of Jeremy's National Gala performance to watch just a few seconds of the same part over and over. That precise foot steps before he raises his hand; That arms and hands exchanging positions after the jump; That quick turn of his head; ...Ooooh, they were sooooo musical and beautiful! However, I find the last minute of his Gala performance was a little sloppy.

I have to say that I have never done this on Lambiel's programs even though I like Lambiel's musicality too. But I admit that I did it with Joubert's 2009 Worlds Ex. number. There were several movements he did soooo beautifully.

 

[colleen o'neill]

I refreshed my memory of some of the guys we mentioned and what they're doing this year via Youtube.. And while I feel there could be some musicality lurking in Contesti..he's not displaying it yet , and I feel pretty much the same about Brezina. But of course, I left out Johnny Weir..in no way intentional.

Joe ,I often find myself in agreement with you , but we must part ways over the Japanese guys. Oda has always struck me as really musical ,but I think a lot of his natural musicality is hidden this year under Morozov's choreography. Pity.

Kozuka is musical ,but still a little reserved. I say give him another year to develop..

But Daisuke doesn't strike you as musical ? I agree his choreography is very full and intricate , but only an extremely musical skater could handle it.

 

[Olympia]

I just came across this and thought it was a pretty good performance from a 13 year old.......it's Naomi Nari Nam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAUwZ74Qs_o&feature=related

Oh, man, Nam is one of the greats. It's so distressing that she had such a brief career. That Nationals program she won silver with was to die for. I was so happy when she returned as a pairs skater, but her injuries did her in again, and I gather she's retired for good. Thanks for posting this!

I remember having a very good opinion of John Nicks as a coach for singles skaters after seeing Nam and then Sasha debut the next year. Both were Nicks skaters, and both had the most beautiful positions and pointed toes. Yet each looked completely individual.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Coleen - I did indeed mention Oda (Nobunari) as being among my musical skaters, I'll repeat in last names: Oda, Abbott and Brezina. Of course, Stephane. This short list is just for the Olys, and I hope they skate their best.

The other very fine skaters you mentioned all have well crafted choreographic programs, but, imo, they do not add anything beyond the program except facial expressions. They do not seem to use theiir bodies as a means of expression, except their arms which have probably been and issue with the choreographer.

The four in the Olys I like show me how they dance on ice. Total body, None of them may podium, but it's a joy to watch blade on the ice to music.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I am not sure if anyone mentioned what I believe to be one of the best music choices For a skater(s).
Shen and Zhao used the popular Turandot in the 2002-03 season and when they skated a perfec program despite Shen's injury to thr triumphant "vincere!, vinvcere!" of Nessun Dorma they brought the crowd to it's feet in a way that could not have been possible if they had skated to something like Choplin or S&S Cirque de Soliel music.

 

[Olympia]

You're right about that, Tinymavy. I remember the emotion that Shen and Zhao brought to it, and the emotion it brought out in me. I seem to recall that they used a different orchestration of Turandot for that program, not the full-size orchestral treatment one would see at a performance of the opera. That was a key element in its effectiveness, because the rendition was more personal and intimate, while retaining the melodious lushness of Puccini's original.

That program was an achievement of true artistry. Of course the technique mattered immensely, but Shen and Zhao possessed that extra lightning that raises a program above a mere competition piece--and they had it in extra measure for that competition. To my mind, one of the great moments in skating history.

 

[inside edge]

Oh, man, Nam is one of the greats. It's so distressing that she had such a brief career. That Nationals program she won silver with was to die for. I was so happy when she returned as a pairs skater, but her injuries did her in again, and I gather she's retired for good. Thanks for posting this!

 

[Mathman]

I think Kozuka is a very musical skater, in a pleasantly understated way. He seems to let the music carry him without being in-your-face about it

 

[colleen o'neill]

Mathman -I agree completely about Kozuka. I'll be surprised , though, if we don't see him become a bit more relaxed and acquire a bit more outreach ( if that expresses it ) as he becomes more used to being among the elite.

I always enjoy watching Oda, but really feel Morozov's choreography fails to take full advantage of his musicality, especially in the SP. So I feel just a bit let down with him, this year.

But I want to toot the horn for Takahashi just a little more...He's so fluid..all of his arm movements are part of the whole movement of his body, no movement is stuck on to give him something to do with his arms , or from another point of veiw, to give the audience something to look at while the skater's just stroking. Of course, he's very different from Jeremy. He's completely flamboyant . I don't know if another skater has epitomized that word so well since Toller Cranston, (except for Weir,of course).If that's not what floats your boat..it's just not. But I always feel the music is dictating his movements when I watch him. That he's just surrendering himself to wherever the music takes him.( Or maybe throwing himself onboard for the ride.)

Anyway, I think this will be a fantastic competition. I'll have to make sure I have enough wine ,or brandy or whatever on hand to get me through the final 2, maybe even 3 flights of the men's FS. And no-one should start any drinking games , or we'll pass out before we know who makes it to the podium.

Shen and Zhao's Turandot was great and I think they could do it again with the program they have this year. They make that adagio seem fresh.They obviously feel their music and there are so many lovely choreograhic details accentuating it. If they skate with the intensity they've displayed so far, the end of this program could be as rousing, but in a different way. The quiet ending with that beautiful last lift could have the crowd just going wild in awe.