Nathan Chen out of worlds

[Weathergal]

I hope that there isn't too much medal pressure on Ilia - or Vincent for that matter. I do think the opportunity is there for either to medal. Vincent's skating isn't really my cup of tea, but after all he's been through, I'd really like him to do well here.

I will miss the Russian skaters, especially Mark Kondratiuk, whose skating I really enjoy, and Nathan, Jason, and Yuzuru. But even with their absences, the field is very strong, and I hope to see some great performances. There are so many great men's skaters in the field plus I hope to "discover" some new favorites as well!

 

[CellarDweller]

I'm sorry to hear that Nathan won't be at Worlds, but if he's hurting then he's doing the right thing.

 

[badknees]

Gotta be honest I don't care about the substitute-substitute US guys. I wish Jason could have gone, but he deserved his holiday. I hope Shoma and Yuma have great skates, let's see who comes out on top.

Wait.....Is Jason not going simply because he happens to be on a vacation at this time? I don't understand why that would stop someone from going to worlds?

 

[badknees]

Would this not have been Jason's chance at a world medal? How cool it would be to see someone get a medal without a quad.
Not sure I understand why Jason is skipping worlds.

 

[Amei]

Would this not have been Jason's chance at a world medal? How cool it would be to see someone get a medal without a quad.
Not sure I understand why Jason is skipping worlds.

Jason was not originally named to the Worlds team, apparently he did not anticipate a withdrawal by the 3 named to the team and went on vacation so he has been off the ice for awhile so probably not in the best of shape and decided to forego trying to go to Worlds with minimal practice.

 

[el henry]

Would this not have been Jason's chance at a world medal? How cool it would be to see someone get a medal without a quad.
Not sure I understand why Jason is skipping worlds.

Jason was not originally named to Worlds.

Based on following Jason these past few years, but nothing he has said, my guess would be that he told USFS he would not go, even with a withdrawal, shortly after the Olys. In other words, he was on his skating seminar/vacation *after* having withdrawn as an alternate.

Jason is still contemplating his future. He poured his heart and soul into making the Oly team and two great performances. Although I would love to see him at Worlds, he is not in that headspace.

He did the same thing for very different "headspace" reasons in 2018 (decline to go to Worlds as an alternate).

 

[nguyhm]

Gotta be honest. It's irritating hearing people say they knew Nathan was going to withdraw or that he should have withdrawn sooner. The accusation that he just doesn't care now that he has his Olympic gold is ridiculous. The fact that he didn't withdraw sooner shows he was intending to go. And if he didn't want to, he wouldn't have committed to it in the first place. He had no obligation to. He also said that he'd been training for Worlds soon after he got back from the Olympics, and he was indeed spotted several times training his Mozart program. Pretty sure something had to have happened recently in his practices to make him change his mind. Not sure why some feel the need to be so disrespectful.

I totally understand and respect Nathan's reason to withdraw I will miss seeing him compete in Montpellier especially if he had the intentions to skate his Mozart program. La Boheme and Mozart would have been great successes in France. La Boheme because it's french and a tribute to Charles Aznavour, Mozart (specifically the Requiem portion) as a remembrance of all the lives lost in the recent "war".
Wishing Nathan speedy recovery in time for the SOI tours.

 

[labgoat]

I had earlier guessed Nathan would skate the Mozart program at Worlds and think this would've really been a Worlds moment - a potential tribute to war victims, but alas it is not to be.

On another note I can hear Jim McKay in my head (paraphrasing from 1979 World Gymnastics where Olga & Ludmila have retired, Nadia sits on the sidelines with injury and Nelli Kim stepped up to win the Championship - hearty perennial that she was).


The Russians and Chinese are out of the event, Yuzu and Nathan are injured and sit on the sidelines, Jason is off on vacation. For the US it will be Vincent Zhao, center stage, in the spotlight - all alone...

Of course there is still Yuma, Shoma, Ilia, Daniel, Jun-Hwa, Deniss...
It will be an interesting event for sure. I wish all those competing only the best at this event, may the best man win.

 

[Arigato]

This is a huge redemption opportunity for Chen. Malinin also has a shot at a medal too if he skates all out (with Chen/Brown out, his PCS/GOE will likely be a bit higher). I know Zhou can be iffy but he's had a fairly solid season (the only one to win again Chen). And hard to say if Cha can replicate his Olympics.

I do think Zhou and Malinin should be able to obtain 3 spots given the absence of Russia/Chen/Hanyu/Brown. It's a bit of pressure on them, but not unachievable. It's also been a long time since the Olympics so who knows what shape everyone is in.

The PCS and GOE are based on one's own performance unless someone is inflating scores to rig an outcome. Kind of like giving someone + 2.91 GOE on a 4S with a 'q'. Ridiculous.

 

[Skater Boy]

Gotta be honest. It's irritating hearing people say they knew Nathan was going to withdraw or that he should have withdrawn sooner. The accusation that he just doesn't care now that he has his Olympic gold is ridiculous. The fact that he didn't withdraw sooner shows he was intending to go. And if he didn't want to, he wouldn't have committed to it in the first place. He had no obligation to. He also said that he'd been training for Worlds soon after he got back from the Olympics, and he was indeed spotted several times training his Mozart program. Pretty sure something had to have happened recently in his practices to make him change his mind. Not sure why some feel the need to be so disrespectful.

I had earlier guessed Nathan wold skate the Mozart program at Worlds and think this would've really been a Worlds moment - a potential tribute to war victims, but alas it is not to be.

On another note I can hear Jim McKay in my head (paraphrasing from 1979 World Gymnastics where Olga & Ludmila have retired, Nadia sits on the sidelines with injury and Nelli Kim stepped up to win the Championship - hearty perennial that she was).

Nellie Kim was already a great gymnast. She was the forgotten other gymnast with the 10's,, OSM in 1876 all around behind Nadia. She had many medals already.
The Russians and Chinese are out of the event, Yuzu and Nathan are injured and sit on the sidelines, Jason is off on vacation. For the US it will be Vincent Zhao, center stage, in the spotlight - all alone...

Of course there is still Yuma, Shoma, Ilia, Daniel, Jun-Hwa, Deniss...
It will be an interesting event for sure. I wish all those competing only the best at this event, may the best man win.

 

[labgoat]

@Skater Boy
I agree that Nelli Kim was a great gymnast with 10s and titles, but it did seem like she was overshadowed by the others. It was nice to see her in the spotlight, center stage as the star as happened on this occasion.

I posted this as a reflection, that sometimes when others are out of an event, that other well deserving others get a chance to shine.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The PCS and GOE are based on one's own performance unless someone is inflating scores to rig an outcome. Kind of like giving someone + 2.91 GOE on a 4S with a 'q'. Ridiculous.

A 2.91 is a +3 on a 4S. If everything else about the jump was exceedingly well done, then it is possible to give that mark while still adhering to the rules. It's generous for sure, but not ridiculous or indicative of rigging.

I'm not saying it should be higher, I'm just saying with the absence of Chen/Brown, Malinin's PCS is likely to be higher. After all he's the highest placer from US nationals (although I think edge still goes to Zhou in terms of international favouritism and who the USFS would politic for the most). I'm not saying it'll be as ridiculous as the Russian men at Euros level inflation but it'll probably be higher if he skates clean. It's also not entirely unmerited. He needs way more speed but still has transitions in and out of jumps, strong spins, and some nice highlights like the ina bauer. A clean skate with 4 quads getting 80 PCS is totally fine, and tbh some of the other guys are getting way higher PCS for shakier performances or sloppier choreo (like Kondratiuk).

 

[Arigato]

A 2.91 is a +3 on a 4S. If everything else about the jump was exceedingly well done, then it is possible to give that mark while still adhering to the rules. It's generous for sure, but not ridiculous or indicative of rigging.

A 4S is rarely well done with the skater. This time was no different - except for the fact he was at U.S. Inflationals.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

A 4S is rarely well done with the skater. This time was no different - except for the fact he was at U.S. Inflationals.

I wouldn't say "rarely" well done. He got a tendency to get close on the rotation, but he's actually pretty consistent with it. Let's not forget that q means that the jump is sufficiently rotated to achieve full base value. It's not ideal, of course, but I don't think that doesn't mean it's not well done because he still lands the jump well and it has good amplitude, air position, and usually effortless or close to it.

I don't think that particular 4Sq deserved a +3 but I was saying a +3 on a 4Sq is theoretically possible. Had Zhou had more transitions and it was done more effortlessly, then yeah a +3 isn't egregious (especially at a Nationals where everything is generous). But the one he did at Nats I would have given a +1, maybe a +2 with a Nationals boost. It wasn't great or amazing or perfect, but "well done" to me is in the +1 to +2 range and his 4S at Nationals in the SP would have constituted that on my scorecard. Of course, if your definition of "well done" is a jump that is worthy of +3 to +5 then yeah, under that definition it wouldn't be "well done". And since he almost invariably gets a q on the 4S which drops the jump to a 1 or 2 max, it's not "well done" by that +3 to +5 definition, no.

 

[Arigato]

I wouldn't say "rarely" well done. He got a tendency to get close on the rotation, but he's actually pretty consistent with it.

I would. It's so rarely well done the judges watch it like hawks that haven't eaten in a month.

Let's not forget that q means that the jump is sufficiently rotated to achieve full base value.

I'm all too aware of BV skaters who exist merely to collect BV.

But the one he did at Nats I would have given a +1, maybe a +2 with a Nationals boost. It wasn't great or amazing or perfect, but "well done" to me is in the +1 to +2 range and his 4S at Nationals in the SP would have constituted that on my scorecard. Of course, if your definition of "well done" is a jump that is worthy of +3 to +5 then yeah, under that definition it wouldn't be "well done". And since he almost invariably gets a q on the 4S which drops the jump to a 1 or 2 max, it's not "well done" by that +3 to +5 definition, no.

Don't give anyone a boost. No boosting allowed.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I would. It's so rarely well done the judges watch it like hawks that haven't eaten in a month.



I'm all too aware of BV skaters who exist merely to collect BV.



Don't give anyone a boost. No boosting allowed.

Just calling a spade here. Yes nobody should be boosted but I totally get why it happens. I mean people were even boosted at Euros/4CC/Olympics.

Also Zhou doesn’t exist just to collect BV. What’s he supposed to do - switch to a 3S and give up tons of points just because he’s landing on the q instead of cleanly? Lol - no that’s not how you win. You might as well ask pair teams with sloppy triple twists that get negative GOE all the time to switch to a double twist.

And even with judges watching it like hawks, the worst it’s been this season is a q. Sure not ideal but Zhou’s quad salchow getting a q is a “win” - like if Asada’s lutz got a ! instead of an e. Sure you lose GOE but the base value is there and it still counts as a clean quad.

Plenty of skaters execute elements for the sake of getting points even if they can’t execute them well. There are very few skaters who can execute everything well. Zhou’s quads are borderline but the point is he does them sufficiently to get the BV which is more than several other skaters do. Not to mention if a q spoils a program or a skater for you, I mean that’s on you (the same way some people “can’t stand” to watch a skater with a flutz…. Like really? It’s literally a split second within a 4 minute program).

 

[moonvine]

Camden, this is such a great opportunity for you and I hope you make the most of it. Good Luck.... I'll be cheering for you.

We may well lose our 3 spots.

 

[moonvine]

Why is Jason in Peru? Someone said he hadn’t been training - has he been ill? Aren’t all the alternates supposed to keep training?

 

[mrrice]

We may well lose our 3 spots.

I'm very worried about that as well. If Vincent and Ilia both skate well, we should be in good shape. A clean Vincent has already proven he's a medal threat and I am really hoping that Ilia will skate like he did at Nationals. He was so great there.

 

[ucrgirl]

Jason was not originally named to Worlds.

Based on following Jason these past few years, but nothing he has said, my guess would be that he told USFS he would not go, even with a withdrawal, shortly after the Olys. In other words, he was on his skating seminar/vacation *after* having withdrawn as an alternate.

Jason is still contemplating his future. He poured his heart and soul into making the Oly team and two great performances. Although I would love to see him at Worlds, he is not in that headspace.

He did the same thing for very different "headspace" reasons in 2018 (decline to go to Worlds as an alternate).

I agree with you.

I think I remember an interview post LP at the Olympics in which Jason said something like, 'it took an incredible amount of energy and focus to skate his best at the Olympics and he wasn't sure he had that in him again this season (for worlds).'