Pairing 14 year old girls with 20 year old guys

[skatergirl45]

I agree that chemistry is essential. You cannot make "magic" on the ice with out it. That being said, teams with huge age differences may have the fancy tricks but no chemistry.

 

[fenway]

I agree that chemistry is essential. You cannot make "magic" on the ice with out it. That being said, teams with huge age differences may have the fancy tricks but no chemistry.

Yah but like someone said earlier, T&M were the perfect example of a pairs team with very little chemistry. Those two never felt like a pair that clicked for me. It was like two people skating at the same time, but not as a pair, & yet they were incredibly successful. So what gives I wonder? :scratch:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Chemistry in Couples Skating

Excellent topic for this mother of all subjective sports.

My overall requirement for all skaters is to show joy and fight in their programs. This includes couples skating as well. Their object should be to win a competition in the sport that they love - not necessarily love with each other.

If Pairs, for example, are using sugary music like Roti's R&J, then one would expect some romantic chemistry going on. I would find it interesting to find something else, that would include innovation. But that's me.

If Pairs are using the music of Verdi's Macbeth and they are going to interpret the two main characters (I would suggest they do not.) they would have a difficult time showing the love between these evil protagonists. And there is love between them.

I believe skaters mimic more than they feel except some at the Senior level.

When I watched the Hubbells, I felt this is a senior team and should not be dancing in juniors. They both have complete grown up bodies; she is very pretty and he has eyes that could tell a story without words. Neither of them look romantically at each other but they share the charasmatic love of skating and the fight to win.

What else does one need in a competition?

Joe

 

[passion]

This topic crossed my mind while watching all levels at Nats.The Rockne-Keanu age difference doesn't seem to bother me- but there was one team- I think Jr. but may have even been novice- that had a WILDLY large age disparity. I'm talking something like she was 12 and he was 23. I don't recall their names, but it was slightly disturbing in that he was a fully grown man and she was a child. I don't really attach a weird sexual vibe to it-- but I do wonder what could these young/old teams have to talk about outside of skating??

I have some recollection of this age gap somewhere; I can't remember which competition or who. Even though the two skaters are probably only thinking skating (especially the girl who is probably completely innocent and pure at the tender age of 12) it did give the people I was watching them with the heegeebeegees because somehow there is a sexual connection there when you think of the age difference and it's a bit creepy. Think about it: a grade seven girl is still in primary school and a 23 man is completing a masters degree in university. When I saw the pair I couldn't help but think of the parents and I was a little shocked at the parents of the girl who obviously must have okayed the pairing. As a parent, I would be very leary of having my young daughter spending time with a man almost double her age. I would not allow it.

 

[gkelly]

Yah but like someone said earlier, T&M were the perfect example of a pairs team with very little chemistry. Those two never felt like a pair that clicked for me. It was like two people skating at the same time, but not as a pair, & yet they were incredibly successful. So what gives I wonder? :scratch:

It's an athletic competition, not a chemistry competition.

Athletic skill and technique are what gets skaters to the elite levels.

Artistic qualities including making beautiful shapes and patterns, relating to the music, relating to the audience, and yes, pair partners relating to each other make it more entertaining to watch (and, for many skaters, to do). And all those things also showcase mastery of the athletic skills and therefore are rewarded in the scoring and can tip the balance in determining which of two or more teams will win if the technical content is comparable.

But all the chemistry or other artistic qualities in the world can't win medals without the technique.

Sometimes the skaters who have the best overall technique or the most difficult successful technical content don't happen to have the best artistry.

 

[chuckm]

There's nothing in the description of the components that talks about 'chemistry' as one of the requirements for Pairs. Interaction, yes, but that's not the same thing.

So many posters talk hopefully of a romantic relationship between Dube and Davison, or Virtue and Moir. That's because viewers WANT there to be a romantic relationship so they (the viewers) can enjoy that relationship vicariously. We keep hearing about how D/D have such wonderful chemistry, as if that is all they need to make it to the top of the podium.

Gkelly is right. Chemistry is nice to have and fans love to see it, but it's the technical skill that counts above everything else.

 

[heyang]

Chemistry between the 2 parts of the pair improves the presentation or performance factor of the team to the audience. If you have 2 teams with equal technical ability, but only 1 can emote together on the ice, the audience will pick the team with the chemistry. It's one of the reasons why Shen/Zhao are more populer that Totmianinna/Marinnin.

 

[heyang]

Attyfan, depends upon the state. Georgia just had a major case as DorisPPulaski pointed out and it was very bad all around for the young man.

That case was an outrage. The boy was 17 years old and a promising athlete headed for a full scholarship to college. There was less than a 2 year age difference between him and the 'victim.' He had various reasons for not wanting to plea bargain and the DA stuck to the letter of the law inappropriately, instead of using some common sense. Various legislators screwed up, too. Here's a link to the case and the resulting aftermath.

The Case of Genarlow Wilson

 

[heyang]

I decided to do a search to see the latest on Wilson. Yay for him - the Tom Joyner foundation has provided him with a full scholarship and he's justed started college.

Wilson to attend Moorehouse

 

[chuckm]

Chemistry between the 2 parts of the pair improves the presentation or performance factor of the team to the audience. If you have 2 teams with equal technical ability, but only 1 can emote together on the ice, the audience will pick the team with the chemistry. It's one of the reasons why Shen/Zhao are more populer that Totmianinna/Marinnin.

Sure the audience will prefer the emoting couple. But that isn't necessarily going to be the judges' choice.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Sure the audience will prefer the emoting couple. But that isn't necessarily going to be the judges' choice.

Chemistry has not really been defined in this thread, except for the romantic angle. Again my villanous couple MacBeth and his Wife. The chemistry is romantic but so are the murders. I doubt any figure skating couple could convey murder and lover in the same routine, although I think DeLobel and Schernfeld touched on it with Bonnie and Clyde.

I don't think skaters (including Henie) ever won awards for acting. Let's try to understand what the couples do bring to skating. It's all so subjective anyway.

Joe

 

[ManyCairns]

I know they don't skate pairs, but Tanith and Ben have great chemistry on ice. And they are both in relationships with different people.

Whom is Ben involved with, anyway? I know Tanith is involved with some senior male skater or other. [wink]

Love B/A!!

 

[rain]

I have some recollection of this age gap somewhere; I can't remember which competition or who. Even though the two skaters are probably only thinking skating (especially the girl who is probably completely innocent and pure at the tender age of 12) it did give the people I was watching them with the heegeebeegees because somehow there is a sexual connection there when you think of the age difference and it's a bit creepy. Think about it: a grade seven girl is still in primary school and a 23 man is completing a masters degree in university. When I saw the pair I couldn't help but think of the parents and I was a little shocked at the parents of the girl who obviously must have okayed the pairing. As a parent, I would be very leary of having my young daughter spending time with a man almost double her age. I would not allow it.

It's not even just about any kind of romantic or sexual angle, because I highly doubt, in most cases, anything of the kind actually exists. To me, there's also a question of disparity of power in the relationship — who has say and influence.

I've personally always found it amusing when fans speculate about possible romantic connections between skaters — or stars of the same movie, for that matter. I don't really care about their off-ice relationship. On the ice I do want and expect to see chemistry — of some kind, be it romantic or otherwise. When I talk about chemistry I mean that the two skaters must show evidence of some kind of relationship to one another on the ice, some kind of interaction. It shoudl be appropriate to the music and the program. Otherwise, what's really the point of skating in couples at all?

 

[Ladskater]

Actually the Russian pair skaters started that trend a long time ago. G&G were one of the first pairs to emerge from Russia as an older guy/younger girl team. Debbie Wilkes called it "Rag Doll" matching. It worked out okay for them; so it's really nothing new.

 

[dorispulaski]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marina_Cherkasova

The first of the Russian gorilla/flea pairs that I recall was Marina Cherkasova and Sergei Shakrai. I first saw them in their World championship debut in 1977.

When the pair the first skated internationally in 1977, Shakrai was approximately two feet taller than Cherkasova. This height difference facilitated innovation in twist and lift elements. In fact, they became the first pair to perform the split quadruple twist in 1978. Later, the judging standards were changed to value physical harmony between the partners, which handicapped Cherkasova and her partner.

They skated at the Olympics in 1980--they disappeared from the world scene when she was 16.

They are the textbook case of this situation.

 

[MissIzzy]

Just watching the Exhibition, where Keauna was dressed in less and casting "Come hither" looks at him! Honestly, if they must skate together, can they at least avoid playing "Lolita" whenever possible? Our society already has a bad habit of sexualizing young girls(while telling them not to actually do it; can't have them making their own choices on the matter, can we?), and that Ex number of their really fed into it in the worst way. Rena and John being sappy after that was a relief!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just watching the Exhibition, where Keauna was dressed in less and casting "Come hither" looks at him! Honestly, if they must skate together, can they at least avoid playing "Lolita" whenever possible? Our society already has a bad habit of sexualizing young girls(while telling them not to actually do it; can't have them making their own choices on the matter, can we?), and that Ex number of their really fed into it in the worst way. Rena and John being sappy after that was a relief!

Keauna and Rockne shocking; Rena and John Sappy.

Do you think we need a censor present during their rehearsal?

What did Keauna's mother say? Do you know?

btw - Who puts those little girls in pageants in such comprmising positions when they dance and sing?

Joe

 

[chuckm]

Keauna's mom is one of her coaches.

We know Keauna is 15, but she doesn't look it in this number---she looks a lot older. And Rockne isn't old-looking for his age, which is more than can be said for Jon Nuss.

The 'Barbie' number that Paetsch/Nuss do is absolutely disgusting because she looks like Jon Benet Ramsey and he looks like a 30-year-old man.

 

[LizzieBeth]

Keauna's mom is one of her coaches.

We know Keauna is 15, but she doesn't look it in this number---she looks a lot older. And Rockne isn't old-looking for his age, which is more than can be said for Jon Nuss.

The 'Barbie' number that Paetsch/Nuss do is absolutely disgusting because she looks like Jon Benet Ramsey and he looks like a 30-year-old man.

I hated that number by Paetsch/Nuss too. The age disparity is extremely obvious.

 

[Cal Girl]

i wonder what US Figure Skating thinks, oh that is right, they only care about the medals.
Maybe someone will complain that this stuff should be censored when it airs tomorrow and then they can deal with the fall out.