Poll: Best all-around female skater?

[yyyskate]

The thing about Yuna's spirals were that her positions really tended to be lackluster. I always felt they were her least favorite element, not surprised that she rarely did them after rules changed for spirals.

this is simply NOT true! Yuna values spiral sequence tremendously based on her choreo choices in her programs. (whether people think Yuna's spiral is great, good or "sad", it is up to people).but she used spirals as her main elements in her Homage to Korea choreo sequence when spiral sequence just got taken out and replaced by choreo sequence. whereas, many other skaters (with or without great spiral) have taken spiral out of their programs that season.
Hear the live audience's(in Russia) roaring cheer for that spiral.
https://youtu.be/psxOL_a-9cU?t=354
also, she included that beautiful nostalgic little spiral in her last SP of her career and her last olympics, Send in the clowns. it is really difficult, risky and gutsy to pull that off in stsq (as beautifully as Yuna does) and in the most nerve racking competition (OG short), She must value spiral (and its significance of lady's figure skating) very much. And（this is my personal live skating viewing experience ）. after Yuna's SITC little spiral, I have seen spirals used much more by young skaters in choreo than before since it has been taken out.

Also, she has incorporated spirals in many of her EX, including her farewell EX Nessun Dorma, that glorious, classic change-of-edge spiral, reminiscent of Michelle Kwan (her idol whose signature move is spiral).

Yuna has used plenty of spirals after the rule change, has garnered appreciation from audience and fans for that element as well, also contributed to the significance of this beautiful and classic element in figure skating (of course most credit goes to Michelle Kwan) which is one of Yuna's legacy among many .

Also, her layback spin which is another element that has been picked a lot. has also been praised by commentators (her junior SP, her Danse Macabre SP, her Giselle sp) and used as logos(profiles) to represent figure skating in many occasions (her meditation EX).

Also, Yuna can do a text-book 3loop ( successfully in comp as well as in practice ) she just opt to not do it due to injury in parts of her career .

Yuna is no doubt an all around and all time skater. Expected that people is gonna bash her (the same old bash) in thread like this . But failed to resist the bait and clicked into this thread...
that's all from me, similar content has been illustrated many times by Yuna fans before. so nothing particularly new. now I am out. Enjoy the rest of the discussion.

 

[Skater Boy]

^^ i think rochette was undervalued throughout her career...

I was wondering that and have heard some skating coaches say her programs were the best constructed even compared to Yuna and Mao plus she did all the triples - and really could do them all other than the axel. Even her spiral at the olympics were second best. And you know she must have been good because the pro US commentators in comparing her to Mirai who a lot of pro Americans felt deserved bronze and it was a sympathy vote for Rochette said Rochette was miles ahead program wise. Had she not left out that double axel in her long program she probably would have had silver. She was musical in her own way -not necessarily in a princessy way, great inbetweens and skating skills and huge amplitude on her jumps.

 

[Amei]

this is simply NOT true! Yuna values spiral sequence tremendously based on her choreo choices in her programs. (whether people think Yuna's spiral is great, good or "sad", it is up to people).but she used spirals as her main elements in her Homage to Korea choreo sequence when spiral sequence just got taken out and replaced by choreo sequence. whereas, many other skaters (with or without great spiral) have taken spiral out of their programs that season.
Hear the live audience's(in Russia) roaring cheer for that spiral.
https://youtu.be/psxOL_a-9cU?t=354
also, she included that beautiful nostalgic little spiral in her last SP of her career and her last olympics, Send in the clowns. it is really difficult, risky and gutsy to pull that off in stsq (as beautifully as Yuna does) and in the most nerve racking competition (OG short), She must value spiral (and its significance of lady's figure skating) very much. And（this is my personal live skating viewing experience ）. after Yuna's SITC little spiral, I have seen spirals used much more by young skaters in choreo than before since it has been taken out.

Also, she has incorporated spirals in many of her EX, including her farewell EX Nessun Dorma, that glorious, classic change-of-edge spiral, reminiscent of Michelle Kwan (her idol whose signature move is spiral).

Yuna has used plenty of spirals after the rule change, has garnered appreciation from audience and fans for that element as well, also contributed to the significance of this beautiful and classic element in figure skating (of course most credit goes to Michelle Kwan) which is one of Yuna's legacy among many .

Also, her layback spin which is another element that has been picked a lot. has also been praised by commentators (her junior SP, her Danse Macabre SP, her Giselle sp) and used as logos(profiles) to represent figure skating in many occasions (her meditation EX).

Also, Yuna can do a text-book 3loop ( successfully in comp as well as in practice ) she just opt to not do it due to injury in parts of her career .

Yuna is no doubt an all around and all time skater. Expected that people is gonna bash her (the same old bash) in thread like this . But failed to resist the bait and clicked into this thread...
that's all from me, similar content has been illustrated many times by Yuna fans before. so nothing particularly new. now I am out. Enjoy the rest of the discussion.

Were Yuna's spirals well choreographed for the time of the program - yes, were they the best spirals in terms of position, No. It's not a bash to say she didn't have the best of something.

 

[noidont]

For me it's Adelina Sotnikova, at least under IJS. The only build-in fault of hers is the flutz. Speed, flexibility, jump height, spin variety. She is really the most naturally well-rounded. I could forgive the flutz more than Yuna and Liza's lack of flexibility, Medvedeva and Lipnitskaya's lack of jump height, Mao's bad jump techniques, Carolina's abysmal clean program rate and Gracie's nonexistent musicality and artistry. There are a few in the juniors who are very promising. Marin Honda, Alisa Fedichikina, for example.

 

[gsyzf]

I think shizuka arakawa is quite well-rounded. I think pretty much every lady (and male skater too) has some issue with either inside or outside edge, i.e. they either flutz or lip. Even if they don't flutz nor lip, they can't land both lutz and flip on a more consistent basis. I don't see wrong edge of one jump as a major flaw when everybody has some issue with one of those two jumps. (But I see wrong edge of both lutz and flip as major flaws.)

 

[Enidan]

Young and joyful skating: Tara Lipinski
Mature and dramatic skating: Ashley Wager

 

[Amei]

To me the best all-around female skater is Sasha Cohen, good jumps with nice height, good step sequences and breath-taking spirals/spins.

 

[andromache]

For me it's Adelina Sotnikova, at least under IJS. The only build-in fault of hers is the flutz. Speed, flexibility, jump height, spin variety. She is really the most naturally well-rounded. I could forgive the flutz more than Yuna and Liza's lack of flexibility, Medvedeva and Lipnitskaya's lack of jump height, Mao's bad jump techniques, Carolina's abysmal clean program rate and Gracie's nonexistent musicality and artistry. There are a few in the juniors who are very promising. Marin Honda, Alisa Fedichikina, for example.

I WISH it was Adelina Sotnikova so much because she has the potential to have it all. Huge jumps, great spins, speed, skating skills, musicality. She had the first three when she won OGM, but really further developed and refined the SS and musicality during her year off. I was stunned to see her programs last year and how impressed I was. But her jumps were much weaker--understandable given her time off and recovering from injury, but she can't be the best all-around when her jumps aren't at the top level.

If she trains hard enough to get as fit and trained as she was in Sochi, she could be the best in the world. If she never again becomes technically competitive to be a world medal contender, I'll always wonder if her skating/legacy would've been benefited by a silver medal in Sochi. It would've been more likely to keep her interested in being competitive shape, determined to show the world what she can do and go for Worlds medals and OGM in 2018, and perhaps given us years of great performances that would make her eventual legacy akin to someone like Mao or Carolina. (Of course, I'm sure she's 200% happy with her win in 2014 and has accomplished a lot since then in shows and in DWTS, but I'm just saying that perhaps the skating world has been deprived of future greatness from her because of it.)

 

[mrrice]

To me the best all-around female skater is Sasha Cohen, good jumps with nice height, good step sequences and breath-taking spirals/spins.

Well, Sasha was certainly one of the most talented skaters we've had however, she was not the best competitor in the World. I'd definitely put Michelle and Sarah Hughes ahead of her. I would however, place her in front of Kimmie even though Kimmie has a World Title and Sasha doesn't.

 

[koatcue]

I WISH it was Adelina Sotnikova so much because she has the potential to have it all. Huge jumps, great spins, speed, skating skills, musicality. She had the first three when she won OGM, but really further developed and refined the SS and musicality during her year off. I was stunned to see her programs last year and how impressed I was. But her jumps were much weaker--understandable given her time off and recovering from injury, but she can't be the best all-around when her jumps aren't at the top level.

If she trains hard enough to get as fit and trained as she was in Sochi, she could be the best in the world. If she never again becomes technically competitive to be a world medal contender, I'll always wonder if her skating/legacy would've been benefited by a silver medal in Sochi. It would've been more likely to keep her interested in being competitive shape, determined to show the world what she can do and go for Worlds medals and OGM in 2018, and perhaps given us years of great performances that would make her eventual legacy akin to someone like Mao or Carolina. (Of course, I'm sure she's 200% happy with her win in 2014 and has accomplished a lot since then in shows and in DWTS, but I'm just saying that perhaps the skating world has been deprived of future greatness from her because of it.)

Every time someone young wins gold, I think of that too. I think if Yulia won gold, she wouldn't even try now, taking her growth spurt and injuries and coach..

 

[Blades of Passion]

^^ i think rochette was undervalued throughout her career...

Eh, I'd say she was plenty valued, seeing as how her Silver at 2009 Worlds wasn't really deserved in my opinion. She lacked consistency, many of her spins were ugly (CoP rules are partially to blame there), and her programs were rarely ever artistically great. Her 'Don Juan' program is the only one I cared about much, when she refined it in the 2nd season that she used it.

That said, she had a LOT of talent. It just wasn't brought out the best it could have been...much like Ashley Wagner. I'm not sure why Joannie dropped her 3Toe+3Toe combo after 2005; she was consistent with it that season and it would have helped her going forward (especially using it in the SP). Anyway, I wish she would have kept competing. She seemed to become more self-confident and fluid after 2010 Olympics. I will always remember her for having an awesome 3Toe+half loop+3Sal combo.

Even her spiral at the olympics were second best.

How do you figure that? Asada and Yu-Na were both scored higher there and several other ladies had better spirals as well (although Nagasu was strangely not scored as such in the SP). Spirals were not a great element for Joannie, regardless of what the inflated SP score said. She worked that forward catch-foot position as best she could, but none of her positions were ever very pleasing.

 

[Globetrotter]

Who is best all round is really subjective and it depends on what aspects of skating one emphasizes on. For me, it is an equal weightage between technical skills (jumps, spins, steps, spirals), basic skating skills and movement on ice, performance (expression, versatility, being able to match choreo) and competitive mentality.

If competitive nerves are excluded, then it is fairly safe to say Midori Ito and Caro K are best all round - some of the strongest SS, no jump issues, no UR, decent presentation and connection to audience. That competitive nerve is the breaker for me, so it will tilt my answer towards Michelle Kwan and Yuna Kim who are solid, consistent, fighters, great presenters and audience appeal and for Yuna, strong jumps, Kwan, strong steps and spirals.

Gracie lacks connection, Wagner and the Russians have mediocre SS, Satoko, awful jumps. Cohen has terrible edges and SS. So they are out for me.

 

[4everchan]

well, it's okay to disagree here... I felt she was a bit undervalued in CPS. Yes, she had some consistency issues but in her era, only Yuna didn't have them... all of them, Mao, Caro especially and Miki struggled with consistency.

Regarding the 3t-3t, I think she started going for the 3F-3T and that didn't prove to work out for her... and strangely, she decided to do drop the 3t-3t... mind you back then, the 3t, was not worth as much and the 3F was worth more so perhaps she thought it was safer to do 3Lz-2t, 3F rather than 3t-3t and 3lz. who knows.... from the 2005 nationals skate i loved her 3F right into a 3S... that was wicked....

I don't think she was overscored at olympics at all... her SP was incredible. she really captured the audience. Yes, there was other factors like being at home and the death of her mother a couple days prior but she cast a spell on the audience and delivered and deserve every point she got.


Regarding spirals.... I am happy to give you that... she wasn't as flexible as others.

Regarding spins, i always liked her spins. She did the most she could do to get her levels and spun fast and tight and centered most of the times... so that's more better than many

In any case, if I had to choose who was the best ever Canadian female skater, I would have a hard time choosing between her and Josée Chouinard.... of course, Josée struggled in competition... she got it together better as a pro... but I still have fond memories of her huge jumps (she even landed 3A in practice) and her aesthetic skating... she was a true emotional skater.

Eh, I'd say she was plenty valued, seeing as how her Silver at 2009 Worlds wasn't really deserved in my opinion. She lacked consistency, many of her spins were ugly (CoP rules are partially to blame there), and her programs were rarely ever artistically great. Her 'Don Juan' program is the only one I cared about much, when she refined it in the 2nd season that she used it.

That said, she had a LOT of talent. It just wasn't brought out the best it could have been...much like Ashley Wagner. I'm not sure why Joannie dropped her 3Toe+3Toe combo after 2005; she was consistent with it that season and it would have helped her going forward (especially using it in the SP). Anyway, I wish she would have kept competing. She seemed to become more self-confident and fluid after 2010 Olympics. I will always remember her for having an awesome 3Toe+half loop+3Sal combo.



How do you figure that? Asada and Yu-Na were both scored higher there and several other ladies had better spirals as well (although Nagasu was strangely not scored as such in the SP). Spirals were not a great element for Joannie, regardless of what the inflated SP score said. She worked that forward catch-foot position as best she could, but none of her positions were ever very pleasing.

 

[jenaj]

I WISH it was Adelina Sotnikova so much because she has the potential to have it all. Huge jumps, great spins, speed, skating skills, musicality. She had the first three when she won OGM, but really further developed and refined the SS and musicality during her year off. I was stunned to see her programs last year and how impressed I was. But her jumps were much weaker--understandable given her time off and recovering from injury, but she can't be the best all-around when her jumps aren't at the top level.

If she trains hard enough to get as fit and trained as she was in Sochi, she could be the best in the world. If she never again becomes technically competitive to be a world medal contender, I'll always wonder if her skating/legacy would've been benefited by a silver medal in Sochi. It would've been more likely to keep her interested in being competitive shape, determined to show the world what she can do and go for Worlds medals and OGM in 2018, and perhaps given us years of great performances that would make her eventual legacy akin to someone like Mao or Carolina. (Of course, I'm sure she's 200% happy with her win in 2014 and has accomplished a lot since then in shows and in DWTS, but I'm just saying that perhaps the skating world has been deprived of future greatness from her because of it.)

Here is what Adelina lacks: consistency. She has excellent speed and flexibility. Her jumps--when she can do them-- are impressive. She is among the top spinners. If they ever bring back spirals as more than an afterthought, she could compete with the best. I noticed her as a junior. She reminded at the time of Sasha Cohen because of her bendy positions. I think Tarasova was choreographing for her then. Last season she showed a lot of improvement in her performance and artistry but missed her jumps too many times. Without consistency, I would never put her near the top in all-around skating. But I think she was somewhat under-rated before she had the skates of her life at Sochi.

 

[Mathman]

In any case, if I had to choose who was the best ever Canadian female skater, I would have a hard time choosing between [Joannie Rochette] and Josée Chouinard….

1. Barbara Ann Scott
2. Karen Magnussen

I don't think she was overscored at olympics at all…

Mirai was a delight, but Joannie's mature command of her program and command of the ice ruled the day.

As for Joannie versus Mao, the way the Olympic stage was set to provide a big showdown between Mao with her triple Axels and Yuna with her Yuna-ness, there was really no way that gold and silver were going to come out any different unless Mao or Yuna made some major errors. Joannie was great, though.

 

[4everchan]

LOL i knew someone would get back to me with Barbara Ann Scott or Karen Magnusen but.. yeah... i am a bit too young to have grown to like their skating... I actually have never even looked them up... In any case, we would be comparing apples and oranges... I don't think these ladies were doing all triples right even maybe any triples. It's hard to compare then... At least, with Manley, we can have an idea of her power !


Regarding the Olympics, I agree. I actually thought that Joannie, should have been closer to silver but yeah... .it was all about the Yuna vs Mao... a bit like this thread actually LOL... sigh...

1. Barbara Ann Scott
2. Karen Magnussen





Mirai was a delight, but Joannie's mature command of her program and command of the ice ruled the day.

As for Joannie versus Mao, the way the Olympic stage was set to provide a big showdown between Mao with her triple Axels and Yuna with her Yuna-ness, there was really no way that gold and silver were going to come out any different unless Mao or Yuna made some major errors. Joannie was great, though.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Cohen has terrible edges and SS.

When she was very young, yes, but they developed a lot. She was quite fluent with her edges by 2006, even if the jump technique issue remained.

Regarding the 3t-3t, I think she started going for the 3F-3T and that didn't prove to work out for her... mind you back then, the 3t was not worth as much, so perhaps she thought it was safer to do 3Lz-2t, 3F rather than 3t-3t and 3lz.

She could have done 3T+3T and 3F in the SP. Would have been worth more than the 3Lz+2T everyone was doing and shown her off more as a power skater. Same for the LP, she could have just done one Lutz, that was her most inconsistent jump. 3F+2T+2Lo, 3T+3T, 3Lz / 3Lo, 2A+2A seq, 3F, 3S could have been really good for her.

Regarding Joannie's spins, i always liked her spins. She spun fast and tight and centered most of the times

I can't agree with that, she was constantly losing her centering (especially on all those upright edge changes they made her do) and I don't recall many fast spins from her. She hunched a lot in the spins and never had a good layback...for example, speaking of her performance at the Olympics, look at the spins there - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TccccIB0-rM&t=197m

Flying Sit Spin: bent leg in the Pike position / barely in sit position on the edge change and hunched

Layback Spin: travels at the start / has hardly any arch in the back after the sideways position / free leg position not very good

Combination Spin: camel position could be better / travels on the Y position (although that's actually good music interpretation here!) / kind of lackluster end to the spin

Definitely a weak point for her and I certainly don't see any need to give her Spiral Sequence more than +1 GOE either. After the 2009 Four Continents Championship, some people were saying that Rochette's skating skills had exceeded Mao Asada's, but I never found that to be accurate at all. Rochette deserved to beat Asada at 2009 4CC simply because Asada popped jumps, that's it, but the competition was used as a way to hold Asada down and push Rochette up.

I do think Joannie's SP in terms of interpretation was better than Asada's at the Olympics, but technically it wasn't close.

 

[4everchan]

^^ BOP I said, most of the times....i liked her spins... of course, there were several examples of them not being great. However, she wasn't a weak spinner compared to some others who really have not so nice ones

 

[andromache]

Here is what Adelina lacks: consistency. She has excellent speed and flexibility. Her jumps--when she can do them-- are impressive. She is among the top spinners. If they ever bring back spirals as more than an afterthought, she could compete with the best. I noticed her as a junior. She reminded at the time of Sasha Cohen because of her bendy positions. I think Tarasova was choreographing for her then. Last season she showed a lot of improvement in her performance and artistry but missed her jumps too many times. Without consistency, I would never put her near the top in all-around skating. But I think she was somewhat under-rated before she had the skates of her life at Sochi.

Even lacking consistency, she could still be around the top 5 in the world, like Gracie Gold. Adelina and Gracie have a lot in common, IMO, except Gracie (for the past two years) has had much more overall fitness and been trained to compete, and Adelina hasn't had competition-ready jumps but has all the musicality Gracie lacks. If Adelina would truly become competition-ready, even her inconsistency wouldn't hold her back too much. She'd probably become Russia's inconsistent-yet-brilliant-when-clean #3, but with more support than Anna P. because OGM.

At Sochi, Adelina had the jumps and the energy and excitement, but her programs were much weaker than her programs last season. Even though Je Suis Malade got a lot of hate for being OTT drama (which I personally loved), it was still stronger in interpretation and theme than her Sochi programs.

 

[aa456]

Assuming the OP meant current skaters only, I would say Mao. She really does have it all and exceled at various skating elements but at different points in her career. Whether it was jumps when she was younger (she still has good jumps, I am just referring to the monster layouts she was able to deliver earlier in her career), to flexibility/spins/ steps to developing even greater musicality and interpretation later in her career. It's just been a question of putting it all together. But then again, which skater has had it all? None I would say.