Poll: Best all-around female skater?

[TheCzar]

Sorry for the bluntness, but you find Gracie's nerve and showmanship 'very satisfactory'? She hasn't even won an individual world or Olympic medal.

She hasn't exactly been peanuts either. She has two National titles, a 4th place at Sochi, multiple medals on the Grand Prix and she has never dropped off the top 10 (in fact, no lower than 6th) at Worlds. She's had a much more consistent career so far than someone like Pogorilaya or Hongo. No World medal yet, but the future is not so bleak for Gracie. She's fast, she has big jumps, she's held her own in some high-pressured situations, and if she likes a program, she can perform it well. If that isn't satisfactory to you, then let's look at Adelina and her fluke OGM.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

If that isn't satisfactory to you, then let's look at Adelina and her fluke OGM.

I'm not sure what Adelina has to do with any of this, but 1 medal > 0 medals, 4 National titles > 2 National titles.

if she likes a program, she can perform it well.

Is this the bar for 'very satisfactory' artistry and showmanship?

 

[TheCzar]

I'm not sure what Adelina has to do with any of this, but 1 medal > 0 medals, 4 National titles > 2 National titles.



Is this the bar for 'very satisfactory' artistry and showmanship?

Actually yes. Obviously, she's had her slumps but nobody is 100%. Not even Michelle. My analysis is a general one any way, so what is your issue? OF COURSE, Artistry and Showmanship depends on the person, and IMO relative to context, and in Gracie's case- in her body of work, I find her overall performance very satisfactory indeed. Examples would include her debut season (she sold that well), she definitely skated well to her programs last year, her exhibitions are fun and she is visibly more energetic at shows. But hey, that's just me. You don't have to agree with me.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

You don't have to agree with me.

I know, I just found it interesting that you find Gracie strong in those areas and all of the Russians lacking. When you say that Gracie has very good competitive nerves you are sure to elicit questions

 

[Jammers]

I think it's fair to say that Mao Asada, Gracie Gold, Ashley Wagner and Satoko Miyahara are some of the most well-rounded skaters out in the field today, with my criteria being the following; technique, nerve, artistry, jumps and showmanship. They're not 100% across the board but my god do they tick each one with at least a 'very satisfactory'

As far as Medvedeva is concerned, it's very premature to say anything because we have merely seen a glimpse. She has the makings of being another good skater but only time will tell how she'll compare. She has the technique (but since she's from Tutberidze's camp that's a bit of a...shall we say, a gamble?), some kind of artistry (but still very generic Russian. Both her programs last year could have been skated by any one), she definitely has the jumps for now and I'll give her showmanship. The same goes for the rest. Radionova, Pogorilaya, Tuktamysheva....they all have what each other has. They all need to hire some North American coach or at least a non-Russian choreographer to really give them some substance and actually stick to it (Tuk...tut tut). And I give minuses for excessive Russo-chopper arms. Not cute.

I have always thought that when Alissa Csizny and Kiira Korpi were on, there were wonderful. At their peak, they both had triple-triples, programs of quality and the drive to compete. Obviously, Yu Na Kim and Carolina Kostner also.

I guess I'm still waiting for someone to really blow me away post-2010.

Alissa had triple-triples?

 

[Jammers]

I'm not sure what Adelina has to do with any of this, but 1 medal > 0 medals, 4 National titles > 2 National titles.



Is this the bar for 'very satisfactory' artistry and showmanship?

Adelina also won some of those early Russian titles when there were no competition at all in Russia among the Ladies. I mean no way would a US lady ever win Senior Nationals as a 12 year old which tells you how bad the Russian ladies were in 2008. The closest would be Mirai winning in 2008 at 14 and to be honest if their was any kind of quality top skaters in the US back then Mirai would not have won but it was a down time for the US too. If Adelina had to face a experienced older top skater like Gracie has had to the last 4 years in Ashley Adelina wouldn't have won 4 Nationals titles either while Gracie without Wagner being around would have won 4 titles too.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Adelina also won some of those early Russian titles when there were no competition at all in Russia among the Ladies. I mean no way would a US lady ever win Senior Nationals as a 12 year old which tells you how bad the Russian ladies were in 2008. The closest would be Mirai winning in 2008 at 14 and to be honest if their was any kind of quality top skaters in the US back then Mirai would not have won but it was a down time for the US too. If Adelina had to face a experienced older top skater like Gracie has had to the last 4 years in Ashley Adelina wouldn't have won 4 Nationals titles either while Gracie without Wagner being around would have won 4 titles too.

Adelina won national titles over Leonova in 2011 and 2012, who had world placements of 4 and 2 those years, and Lipnitskaya in 2014 (2nd at worlds). In each year, her competitor placed higher at worlds than any American. Additionally, Russian women won all but two medals at Junior Worlds between 2011 and 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Junior_Figure_Skating_Championships), and many of those women compete at the senior nationals. It's very US-centric to think that the US field is deeper than Russia; that was the case when Michelle was our champion but hasn't been so in quite a while.

 

[skateluvr]

Does anyone even see Polina Edmunds? Why is she not in this discussion!!!?????

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Does anyone even see Polina Edmunds? Why is she not in this discussion!!!?????

I feel like she has a lot of potential but still hasn't found the right programs to showcase her strengths. Her programs last season were a step in the right direction.

 

[Globetrotter]

So not to "skate through music", as you put it, you must have Ashley's facial expression? Med is the most "going with the music" skater this year.

Notice that I hadn't even said anything about Wagner. She is a versatile performer who tries her very best to sell every programme despite her rather mediocre SS for a senior lady. But I certainly do not like those OTT looks but it's not that it's in every programme. For my, I especially dislike the 2015/16 SP since Melodii beloj nochi is one of my fave skating music pieces. Her jumps were pasted all at the back with tanos in an attempt to max out points and the first half was full of movements to fill in the time, then bang bang to fill out the elements in the second half. That to me is not a good choreo and she could have skated to any music this way. The LP is much better but again, I don't see how some of the tanos added had anything music related. She is very young and still has some ways to go to gain that musicality. Just because I don't enjoy her skating now does not mean it will not change in future. Used to think CaroK skated like a speed truck when younger but I truly enjoyed her skates when she was older and had better control over her speed and better able to show her sure command of the edges and SS instead of just using it for speed.

 

[Blades of Passion]

The closest would be Mirai winning in 2008 at 14 and to be honest if their was any kind of quality top skaters in the US back then Mirai would not have won but it was a down time for the US too.

Mirai was excellent at 2008 Nationals. It was her best set of programs ever, she had amazing speed and limberness back then, and she did a fully rotated 3Lutz+3Toe in the SP. Her showing there would have deserved to win many other Nationals.

 

[musicfan80]

If you are talking about who is competing today, I would say overall it's still Mao Asada. The list I am comparing them are skaters like Carol Heiss, Janet Lynn, Kristi Yamaguchi, Michelle Kwan, Shizuka Arakawa, and Yuna Kim.

 

[Jammers]

Adelina won national titles over Leonova in 2011 and 2012, who had world placements of 4 and 2 those years, and Lipnitskaya in 2014 (2nd at worlds). In each year, her competitor placed higher at worlds than any American. Additionally, Russian women won all but two medals at Junior Worlds between 2011 and 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Junior_Figure_Skating_Championships), and many of those women compete at the senior nationals. It's very US-centric to think that the US field is deeper than Russia; that was the case when Michelle was our champion but hasn't been so in quite a while.

Wagner over the last 4 years or so was a much better skater then Leonova who had her high placements at Worlds in some of the weaker years compared to the last few seasons where the competition was much higher.

 

[Barb]

Gracie´s jumps are not so big anymore. Her programs are boring and especially her interpretation is mediocre ALWAYS. Her spins are good but not extraordinary, her steps are so so. IMO she is good but not one of the best all-around female skaters.

 

[Meoima]

Gracie´s jumps are not so big anymore. Her programs are boring and especially her interpretation is mediocre ALWAYS. Her spins are good but not extraordinary, her steps are so so. IMO she is good but not one of the best all-around female skaters.

Actually those at GPF said Gracie was the fastest and her jumps were biggest there. What makes her uncomfortable to look at is that her body is sooo stiff.

 

[petitebrie]

Kaetlyn Osmond and So Youn Park are worth an honorary mention. They're musical, a joy to watch and they both have big, solid jumps, but inconsistency is holding them back. If they improve their consistency they may receive some component score mercy and could be, well, at least serious top-10-at-Worlds-in-today's-crazy-field contenders. Fwiw neither did too poorly at 4CC in February.

 

[nolangoh]

Gracie´s jumps are not so big anymore. Her programs are boring and especially her interpretation is mediocre ALWAYS. Her spins are good but not extraordinary, her steps are so so. IMO she is good but not one of the best all-around female skaters.

Exactly. I think the biggest problem about Gracie is that she doesn't seem to be able to create her own character on ice and find a piece of music which she feels a strong connection with. Her jumps are ok (except the flip), her air position is nice and her spins are very good, but she just can't merge with the music.

 

[solani]

I think Gracie has two opportunities.
First one: change the competitive mood. Be optimistic about it. Enjoy the competition.
Second one: embrace your dark side. Get rid of that blonde hair, dark brown or black would be appropriate. Chose dark, brooding music or something extremely busy, so that you don't have time to think about anything. No smiles.
She can have all the fun she wants in her exhibition programs.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Wagner over the last 4 years or so was a much better skater then Leonova who had her high placements at Worlds in some of the weaker years compared to the last few seasons where the competition was much higher.

At the end of the day, Ashley or Gracie can bomb a program (sometimes both) at nationals and still make a world team in the US. That definitely isn't the case in Russia.

 

[mrrice]

At the end of the day, Ashley or Gracie can bomb a program (sometimes both) at nationals and still make a world team in the US. That definitely isn't the case in Russia.

This unfortunately, is true and it's been that way for a while. I remember 2000 and 2001 when Michelle wasn't great at Nationals. I will say that she more than made up for those performances at Worlds both of those years. However, in 1999 Michelle was not good at Worlds in 1999 and should have IMO, finished 4th