Questions on GP assignments/world rankings

[moonvine]

I know that currently, unless it is changed, a skater must be ranked 24th or higher to get 2 GP assignments.

Is there a ranking that guarantees them a single assignment?

I know the rankings can change between now and the GP assignments. What is the deadline?

What about retirements? Say the 2nd, 5th and 17th place skater retire? (I totally randomly picked them, don’t want to speak bad retirement juju to any skater)

I saw that my man Jimmy Ma is in 30th place and suddenly became super interested in these answers.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I know that currently, unless it is changed, a skater must be ranked 24th or higher to get 2 GP assignments.

Is there a ranking that guarantees them a single assignment?

I know the rankings can change between now and the GP assignments. What is the deadline?

What about retirements? Say the 2nd, 5th and 17th place skater retire? (I totally randomly picked them, don’t want to speak bad retirement juju to any skater)

I saw that my man Jimmy Ma is in 30th place and suddenly became super interested in these answers.

I'm not knowledgeable at all but I read somewhere that there was a waiting list in case of withdrawal, and that people who had won a Challenger series trophy were admitted to this list. I don't know if this waiting list is erased at the end of the season, or if it is reported to the next season.
I hope you'll get better answers.

 

[SnowWhite]

I know that currently, unless it is changed, a skater must be ranked 24th or higher to get 2 GP assignments.

Is there a ranking that guarantees them a single assignment?

I know the rankings can change between now and the GP assignments. What is the deadline?

What about retirements? Say the 2nd, 5th and 17th place skater retire? (I totally randomly picked them, don’t want to speak bad retirement juju to any skater)

I saw that my man Jimmy Ma is in 30th place and suddenly became super interested in these answers.

This isn't actually correct. The only thing that guarantees 2 assignments is placing in the top 12 (singles) or 10 (pairs+dance) at Worlds.

Being in the top 24 of SB (seasons best) or WS (world standing) guarantees you 1 spot. Especially in singles (since there are more total spots), top 24 SB typically ends up with two spots, but that's not guaranteed.

The ISU doesn't move people up if other skaters/teams retire for either list. If teams make their retirement official with the ISU (not just saying it publicly), then they can be removed from the WS list and others move up. But as long as the name is still on the list, the ISU isn't moving people up for the GP assignments selection. And skaters don't get taken off of the SB list. For guaranteed assignments, it's top 24, not top 24 eligible.

Some time when all the competitions for the season are over, the WS list will be updated for the new season. This means dropping the points from the oldest season on there (in this case, 2019-20), and making the points from 2020-21 only worth 70%. This can change the rankings quite a bit. Once that's done, then that's the list for GP assignments.

It's possible Jimmy will end up top 24 in WS once it's updated for next season. IIRC, when I did the calculation for next season post Olympics he was around 19-20th (I believe). But there's still Worlds and probably JW (+a couple more B events), so that could change. He's also high enough on the SB list that I wouldn't be surprised to see him get at least one spot, even if he's not guaranteed anything.

 

[moonvine]

This isn't actually correct. The only thing that guarantees 2 assignments is placing in the top 12 (singles) or 10 (pairs+dance) at Worlds.

Being in the top 24 of SB (seasons best) or WS (world standing) guarantees you 1 spot. Especially in singles (since there are more total spots), top 24 SB typically ends up with two spots, but that's not guaranteed.

The ISU doesn't move people up if other skaters/teams retire for either list. If teams make their retirement official with the ISU (not just saying it publicly), then they can be removed from the WS list and others move up. But as long as the name is still on the list, the ISU isn't moving people up for the GP assignments selection. And skaters don't get taken off of the SB list. For guaranteed assignments, it's top 24, not top 24 eligible.

Some time when all the competitions for the season are over, the WS list will be updated for the new season. This means dropping the points from the oldest season on there (in this case, 2019-20), and making the points from 2020-21 only worth 70%. This can change the rankings quite a bit. Once that's done, then that's the list for GP assignments.

It's possible Jimmy will end up top 24 in WS once it's updated for next season. IIRC, when I did the calculation for next season post Olympics he was around 19-20th (I believe). But there's still Worlds and probably JW (+a couple more B events), so that could change. He's also high enough on the SB list that I wouldn't be surprised to see him get at least one spot, even if he's not guaranteed anything.

Thank you. So, let’s say he goes to Cranberry and places second again - that would count for season 2023 GP season? Is that correct?

That seems bad if a lot of people retire. Couldn’t there be a lot of GP with few skaters?

Thanks again for your answers. Every time I think I know something!

 

[chuckm]

Thank you. So, let’s say he goes to Cranberry and places second again - that would count for season 2023 GP season? Is that correct?

That seems bad if a lot of people retire. Couldn’t there be a lot of GP with few skaters?

Not for singles. You can expect a plethora of Russians (men and women) who are high on the SB and WR lists. We'll know more after Worlds when we see who's in the top 12 (singles), 10 (dance) and 8 (pairs). Pairs can sometimes be a problem because of retirements+injuries, and there aren't that many Pairs to begin with.

 

[NanaPat]

That seems bad if a lot of people retire. Couldn’t there be a lot of GP with few skaters?

snowwhite was only posting about the skaters who are guaranteed two or one GP assignments. All the available GP spots will be filled (at least initially; some withdrawals may not be replaced). Some skaters who are only guaranteed one spot actually get two, and some skaters who are not guaranteed any spots actually get one (or maybe two????) The extra skaters may be host picks or may be just below 24 on the SB list.

Withdrawal replacements come from among skaters who are high on the SB list but only have 0 or 1 assignments.

There's another constraint: there can only be 3 skaters from any one country in each discipline in each GP. Of late, this has affected the Russian women. With 6 GPs, there are only 18 spots total for Russian women.

 

[yume]

I don't think top 24 SB totally guarantees a spot. Gubanova was denied a GP spot though she was in the top 24 SB. Rusfed chose to send Sotskova who i think was 43rd in SB list but was higher than Gubanova in WS list.

 

[LoisAGOEs]

Top 24 season best does theoretically guarantee a spot, but it’s up to the discretion of the federation as a final step. There are theoretically only 18 Grand Prix spots available per federation per season in each discipline, if there are more skaters than spots, the federation will cut someone out, as is what happened to Gubanova.

 

[surimi]

Well, I hope the Valieva case is solved before the new GP assignments are published, as there may be some reshuffling of world standings in women. Are there points for the Team Event? I hope not...

 

[chuckm]

No WS points for TE, and no SB list either.

 

[ice coverage]

No WS points for TE, and no SB list either.

True that 2022 OWG team event SP+FS scores do not count for ISU Total Score SBs list, and therefore have no bearing on GP assignments.
(Same for team event RD+FD scores.)

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But in case anyone is wondering, 2022 OWG team event scores from individual segments do count for ISU SBs lists for individual segments.

Miura/Kihara are a good example of both sides of the coin.

M/K team event SP score = 74.45, which does count as their ISU SB for SP.
M/K team event FS score = 139.60.
Total = 214.05, but it does not count as their ISU SB for Total Score.

M/K's ISU SB for Total Score is 211.89, which is their Total Score from 2022 OWG individual pairs competition.​

 

[NanaPat]

True that 2022 OWG team event SP+FS scores do not count for ISU Total Score SBs list, and therefore have no bearing on GP assignments.
(Same for team event RD+FD scores.)

---

But in case anyone is wondering, 2022 OWG team event scores from individual segments do count for ISU SBs lists for individual segments.

Miura/Kihara are a good example of both sides of the coin.

Madeline Schizas is another example.

SP SB: 69.60
FP SB: 132.04
total in TE: 201.64
TOTAL SB: 192.14

It seems a bit mean to me.

 

[chuckm]

Madeline's total score in the individual event was 175.56, well below her SB of 192.14 because she had 3 URs, a downgrade, a pop and a fall in the individual FS.
Madeline's TE scores may add up to a higher number than her current SB, but it isn't fair to use Team Event scoring, because skaters from only half of the countries went on to the FS, and some of the skaters who did the FS/FD didn't do the SP/RD, and in some cases, skaters who did do both segments got a lower total TE score than their current SBs.

The Olympic team event is nothing like the World Team Trophy, which permits new SB scoring, because all skaters do both segments.

 

[NanaPat]

skaters from only half of the countries went on to the FS, and some of the skaters who did the FS/FD didn't do the SP/RD

So scores from Europeans shouldn't count as SBs because not all skaters can compete there? Or scores from Olympics shouldn't count as SBs because some skaters didn't qualify for the FP?

It's not really a big deal, but it seems odd that a skater who did both the SP and FP in the team event can achieve new season best scores in both halves, but not the whole.

 

[LoisAGOEs]

I don’t really think that’s weird, at no point during the event are they given a total score, because it’s not a part of the competition.

If you fail to make the free skate at a championship or the Olympics you still have a total score, it’s just extremely low.

 

[chuckm]

At Euros/4CC/Olympics, skaters who qualify for the free (individual) program are eligible for new total SB scores. But those who don't qualify for the free can't get a total SB score because they have only the SP score.

 

[haribobo]

Does anyone have a date for the assignments to be released? I feel like nobody has been talking about the date!

 

[Seven Sisters]

Does anyone have a date for the assignments to be released? I feel like nobody has been talking about the date!

Normally by the end of June but this time around, they will need to figure out if/where the Grand Prix events normally in Russia and China will go first, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see the announcements get delayed.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Since Season's Best scores have been mentioned, can I just hijack this thread to ask about something that has been causing problems for me all season?

With the Fan Fests that I run, I include in the Original Post a table that contains the skater's ISU SB scores and where they were achieved for the Short Programme, Free Skate, and Overall. The contents of the cell links to the relevant SB page on the ISU website.

At the end of each season, I add in the position that the skater's SB score has finished in. But, whilst this has been straightforward enough for the Men, Pairs and Ice Dance, I have not been able to do it for the Ladies. Because, unlike the other categories, the SB pages for the girls haven't been updated since 21st August 2021! They only have the scores from the first Courchevel Junior GP in them!

[For the record, the Men's pages were last updated on 16th April 2022; the Pairs pages were last updated on 15th April 2022; and the Ice Dance pages were last updated on 17th April 2022]

During the season, what I have been having to do to get around this is to go to the skater's ISU Bio, and hope that they have set new PB's this season. And if not, it has been a case of checking their scores for this season in the Competitive History table, and hoping that I can work out which scores count towards the ISU SB's and which don't.

But, whilst this has largely worked for the SB scores, it doesn't work for the SB position. And I would like to be able to add this information into my Fan Fests as soon as possible after the season is officially over on 31st June.

So, seeing as we can no longer rely on the ISU (as if we ever could! ), does anybody know of any alternative websites that tell us the information I desire?

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Since Season's Best scores have been mentioned, can I just hijack this thread to ask about something that has been causing problems for me all season?

With the Fan Fests that I run, I include in the Original Post a table that contains the skater's ISU SB scores and where they were achieved for the Short Programme, Free Skate, and Overall. The contents of the cell links to the relevant SB page on the ISU website.

At the end of each season, I add in the position that the skater's SB score has finished in. But, whilst this has been straightforward enough for the Men, Pairs and Ice Dance, I have not been able to do it for the Ladies. Because, unlike the other categories, the SB pages for the girls haven't been updated since 21st August 2021! They only have the scores from the first Courchevel Junior GP in them!

[For the record, the Men's pages were last updated on 16th April 2022; the Pairs pages were last updated on 15th April 2022; and the Ice Dance pages were last updated on 17th April 2022]

During the season, what I have been having to do to get around this is to go to the skater's ISU Bio, and hope that they have set new PB's this season. And if not, it has been a case of checking their scores for this season in the Competitive History table, and hoping that I can work out which scores count towards the ISU SB's and which don't.

But, whilst this has largely worked for the SB scores, it doesn't work for the SB position. And I would like to be able to add this information into my Fan Fests as soon as possible after the season is officially over on 31st June.

So, seeing as we can no longer rely on the ISU (as if we ever could! ), does anybody know of any alternative websites that tell us the information I desire?

CaroLiza_fan

You're looking at the wrong place - It's no longer "Ladies" but "Women" now.

Total best scores list, SP best scores list and FS best scores list (all updated on the 17th of April)