Rafael Arutyunyan on Russian Doping

[Meoima]

Cultural Differences: Rafael Arutyunyan on the Russian Doping Scandal

DL: If the Russian athletes are taking performance-enhancing drugs, do they recognize that they are doing something wrong or are they merely following along with what they are told to do?

RA: No, I don’t think so. That’s what I’m talking [about]. It’s so difficult to explain to you. So whenever an athlete is five, six years old, all the time he goes to some club and [his] father and mother bring him there even though he has no chance to watch practices. Can you imagine that? See, it’s very different. So mothers are not allowed to come on ice and watch what kids are practicing, because the coach does not allow this. So every single session, every single practice is paid for by [the] government, most of the time, they get on ice and coach can say, “You’re not allowed to come and watch. It’s my training and I don’t want you to watch.” I could close the door if some coach could come to my practice ice and say, “You’re not allowed to watch my practice.”

That way, to explain to you what that athlete feels whenever a coach subjects him to get some pills, do you think he will have some doubt about coach wishing him the best? Because, he grew up with him. I was with my student, Alex Abt, for fourteen years. Fourteen! I was his only coach. You can’t imagine that, right? Fourteen years, I was teaching him. So basically, what happened is that these athletes are dependent because there is coach who [theoretically] has [the] kind of [strong] ethics so could say, “I never want to use anything because I want my athletes to win clean. That is one story; but, if there is [a] coach who has a dirty mind, he would say to the athlete to use it and that athlete would follow his advice. You cannot blame these athletes because they are a part of [a] culture, part of [a] system, or I don’t know what you can name that, but it’s a part of [the] culture.

Read all: http://www.theskatinglesson.com/tsl...fael-arutyunyan-on-the-russian-doping-scandal

 

[mrrice]

Cultural Differences: Rafael Arutyunyan on the Russian Doping Scandal

Read all: http://www.theskatinglesson.com/tsl...fael-arutyunyan-on-the-russian-doping-scandal

He is TOTALLY RIGHT! When I was performing on tour, if we needed a doctor we went wherever they told us to go. I was "Definitely" given steroids because along with giving you strength, they also speed up the recovery of torn ligaments and muscles. The difference in my case was that there was no penalty for steroid use in the Dance or Vocal Community. However, had steroids been illegal in my day, I bet we would have taken them anyway if it meant we'd keep our jobs. These skaters have sponsors and people who have spent months and in some cases years, backing these athlete's and there's a lot of pressure on them to deliver the goods. It's like a rock and hard place, both choices are difficult.

 

[Barb]

Cultural Differences: Rafael Arutyunyan on the Russian Doping Scandal

Read all: http://www.theskatinglesson.com/tsl...fael-arutyunyan-on-the-russian-doping-scandal

He is acussing to Irina S. , I don´t know that story.

 

[exerym]

So, do TSL indict Slutskaya for doping?
And not Liza again...

 

[Meoima]

He is acussing to Irina S. , I don´t know that story.

I don't think Rafael accused anyone. He didn't mention a name. It was TSL's guess.

 

[mrrice]

He is acussing to Irina S. , I don´t know that story.

There's not enough information on Irina's case. Remember, Irina had a serious heart condition "Vasculitis" which kept her off the ice for quite a while and she may have needed steroids to strengthen her heart and keep the rest of her body from deteriorating. When I was dancing we lost a couple of dancers to AIDS and I remember reading about how Broadway was devastated by the disease in the 80's and early 90's. Doctors tried everything, including steroids to build up their bodies because the medication used to make the patients very sick.

 

[silverfoxes]

TSL is so biased it's pathetic. Just the way he phrases the first question makes it seem like this is something all Russian athletes do. And to even insinuate Irina was doing something wrong, after all these years, is really low. I don't know her history at all, but who are they to say she didn't need medication? Just because someone is an athlete doesn't mean they couldn't have health conditions that need treatment. Plenty of them do.

 

[koatcue]

Maybe our infamous Lease forgot Grinkov?

 

[MaxSwagg]

TSL is so biased it's pathetic. Just the way he phrases the first question makes it seem like this is something all Russian athletes do. And to even insinuate Irina was doing something wrong, after all these years, is really low. I don't know her history at all, but who are they to say she didn't need medication? Just because someone is an athlete doesn't mean they couldn't have health conditions that need treatment. Plenty of them do.

Just because she needs it, it is still giving an advantage. I'm not saying whether that's wrong or not, that's just how it is.

 

[Meoima]

There's not enough information on Irina's case. Remember, Irina had a serious heart condition "Vasculitis" which kept her off the ice for quite a while and she may have needed steroids to strengthen her heart and keep the rest of her body from deteriorating. When I was dancing we lost a couple of dancers to AIDS and I remember reading about how Broadway was devastated by the disease in the 80's and early 90's. Doctors tried everything, including steroids to build up their bodies because the medication used to make the patients very sick.

I see. We don't know if doctor gave her steroids or not. But if they did that to save her life or to keep her healthy then I don't think it's doping.

 

[mrrice]

Just because she needs it, it is still giving an advantage. I'm not saying whether that's wrong or not, that's just how it is.

Here's the thing about Irina, She needed these drugs to keep her alive. It is a complete miracle that she was ever able to return to skating at any level. Remember when she skated at worlds in 2004 and ended up in 9th? She was clearly still in recovery from her illness and had she been on Steroids she would have made it into the final flight just like she did in 2005.

 

[Lys]

When I was performing on tour, if we needed a doctor we went wherever they told us to go. I was "Definitely" given steroids because along with giving you strength, they also speed up the recovery of torn ligaments and muscles.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/what-we-do/science-medical/therapeutic-use-exemptions

It's not like athlete can take nothing and just let nature runs its course...
They just need to provide information and documentation they need it for therapeutic use and not for enhancing performance.

Then we can argue all you want about the fine line between "therapeutic" and "enhancing", but under current rules, TUE can be regularly applied.

 

[chuckm]

Irina was not taking ANABOLIC steroids (those are the ones that build bodily strength). Anyway, anabolic steroids would make it harder for a skater to execute skating moves, because they make the body more muscular---and far heavier. The kind of steroids Irina took made her retain water, which is also a disadvantage for figure skating.

Irina had to take steroids because her heart was swollen to nearly twice its size---she very nearly died. Her first symptoms were a cough she couldn't shake, and then feet so badly swollen she couldn't put her skates on. That's when she went to the doctor and they diagnosed her condition. She was in the hospital for several months until they brought her illness under control. She had to continue with steroid medication off and on for years afterward to ensure that she didn't relapse. She hated being on the medication because of the swelling, but had to put up with it when necessary.

 

[mrrice]

Maybe our infamous Lease forgot Grinkov?

Exactly. Just the thought of an athlete skipping doctor visits or refusing to take prescribed medication so they could continue skating is a very sad thought indeed. Who knows if Sergei hid his condition so he could continue skating. I don't care what Irina took as long as she was able to recover and continue on with her life.

 

[temadd]

Enlarged hearts can result from steroid use. Not saying that's what Irina did, I don't know enough of the facts but just sayin.

 

[chuckm]

Figure skaters would NOT use anabolic steroids because they would not enhance performance even for men. If anything, a heavy muscular build would just slow a skater down and could create havoc with learned jumping technique.

 

[mrrice]

Figure skaters would NOT use anabolic steroids because they would not enhance performance even for men. If anything, a heavy muscular build would just slow a skater down and could create havoc with learned jumping technique.

This is correct! They also make your heart race, especially when you first take them. The first rehearsal that I went to following my first "Cycle" of injections, I thought I was having a heart attack and went back to the doctor. He told me that this was common during the first cycle and that things would calm down in a couple of weeks. Can you imagine how frightening it must have been for Irina or anyone with a heart condition to feel their heart racing so fast. Add that to the fact that I was touring and would never see this doctor again. When skaters are traveling, they have no choice but to go the doctor that's recommended by the event host and there are language barriers in play.

I LOVED Russia. However, with my limited Russian language skills it would be nearly impossible for me to explain my situation without an Interpreter. Like skaters, a dancers body is their livelihood and you do what you have to do to keep it in top shape.

 

[Suze]

This was brave of Rafael to say even this much. He didn't name names. That's important to note. Thank you, TSL, for helping to bring this information to light.

 

[NaVi]

I see. We don't know if doctor gave her steroids or not. But if they did that to save her life or to keep her healthy then I don't think it's doping.

Yeah we do... Terry Gannon mentioned during her Worlds 2004 LP that she was taking Prednisolone and that it's usage had been cleared by the ISU.

But Prednisolone is a Catabolic Steroid that breaks down muscle... Googling around it doesn't seem like Prednisolone is used much as a PED. This pretty much sums up what i've found online:

Anti-inflammatory steroids
"Steroids" is in the name, but these are not the muscle-building kind — in fact, they can break down muscle. They are powerful anti-inflammatories and pain relievers. They can give users a quick jolt of adrenaline and may boost endurance a bit, but performance-enhancing value is not clear and suspensions for testing positive tend to be short.

It's not banned by MLB or the NCAA.

------

I was frankly a expecting a lot more... he had been coaching in Russia for a long time but here he was mostly fixated on one instance(where he could/should have been broader) when a rival of someone he was coaching was given a therapeutic use exemption (which doesn't happen that often) for something that isn't much of a PED. I'm skeptical that abuse of TUEs is really all that big deal in figure skating unlike with say TRT in MMA.

I found Irina Rodnina's 1991 comments more interesting(especially considering what she's been saying lately).


As far as Sochi question goes, I wrote earlier why am skeptical any of the skaters were part of the alleged AT Sochi doping program. Any skaters exposed for doping would be a result of them being randomly tested and had their positive results misreported to WADA.

 

[Skatingcat]

I didn't know that Slutskaya had a heart problem.

It would seem to me that if skaters are doping it probably is more about recovery time (meldonium type stuff) or pain killers so they can skate through the injury.

I wish athletes (and countries) had the ethics and pride to compete clean. i wonder how they are going to test for steroids now.

I wonder who was allegedly doping in this sport.