Rafael Arutyunyan on Russian Doping

[boskil]

Two things:
1. Slutskaya is very active in promoting, organizing and coaching among young figure skaters in Russia, there is a prestigious kids tourney of her name, she has fs school - throwing shades on such an accomplished and important person without a proof is a bush league journalism
2. Rafa got his dream facility and is going strong, Koreans babies are going even stronger, Japan has junior world champion and girl with 3A - my Russian babies are in DANGER! :scard7:

 

[brightphoton]

Figure skaters would NOT use anabolic steroids because they would not enhance performance even for men. If anything, a heavy muscular build would just slow a skater down and could create havoc with learned jumping technique.

Irina was not taking ANABOLIC steroids (those are the ones that build bodily strength). Anyway, anabolic steroids would make it harder for a skater to execute skating moves, because they make the body more muscular---and far heavier.

Bwahahaha I don't even know what's satire anymore

Why even go to the gym or work out if you're a figure skater? Just be thin. You don't need gross heavy bulky moozzles

 

[Barb]

Bwahahaha I don't even know what's satire anymore

Why even go to the gym or work out if you're a figure skater? Just be thin. You don't need gross heavy bulky moozzles

the point is she was using another kind of steroids, not anabolic, and anyway she being russian it would be so strange wanting to build muscle, russians are the first promoting a delicate and skinny figure.

 

[Meoima]

Bwahahaha I don't even know what's satire anymore
Why even go to the gym or work out if you're a figure skater? Just be thin. You don't need gross heavy bulky moozzles

I think they work out but let it naturally developed? I know some people go to gym and use steroids at the same time but to make themselves look huge.
I also know some skaters don't want to go to the gyms because they're afraid that muscles will make them bigger and harder to jump.

 

[exerym]

"every single practice is paid for by [the] government"
This isn't true anymore. Not since SU is gone. You have to pay for lessons even in public sport schools. And if you want a result, you have to pay extra for additional training (on and off the ice), for programs and many other things. And if you not in the national team, all costs are on parents (skates, costumes, programs, traveling expenses, training camps).
Yes, it is a different system in Russia. And it has some advantages and disadvantages (for example, it's hard to have additional ice time in small towns even if you have a lot of money, as long as it's not a synthetic ice). But russian system is totally not free of charge for athletes and especially for parents. Figure skating is very expensive kind of sport.

 

[solani]

Just because she needs it, it is still giving an advantage. I'm not saying whether that's wrong or not, that's just how it is.

Yes, some athletes are allowed to take certain medication. Famous examples: Lance Armstrong was allowed to take testosterone because of his testicular cancer. The German weightlifter Steiner was allowed to take insulin because of his diabetes.

I think the text below the picture of Irina in the TSL article was nasty. And Rafael didn't imply that Irina did take steroids before her illness, he just said (and I have to agree with him) that certain drugs that an athlete has to take because of an illness might improve the athlete's performance as well. The sick athlete wouldn't be able to compete, so the medication is certainly performance enhancing, but to what degree? Is their an unfair advantage?

 

[4everchan]

what i find funny in this thread is the s word... steroids...

there are so many kinds of steroids... if one has asthma, one will have to take corticosteroids .... ( cortisone) very different from anabolic steroids..... some steroids will build muscle mass, some other are anti inflammatory...

i was a kid when irina was skating... i remember hearing at that time how ill she was... she was ill... really ill... anyways...

 

[solani]

what i find funny in this thread is the s word... steroids...

there are so many kinds of steroids... if one has asthma, one will have to take corticosteroids .... ( cortisone) very different from anabolic steroids..... some steroids will build muscle mass, some other are anti inflammatory...

i was a kid when irina was skating... i remember hearing at that time how ill she was... she was ill... really ill... anyways...

I used "steroids" because this was the term that TSL used in the article. Corticosteroids are banned as well, although there is only very small evidence that corticosteroids really are performance enhancing, but they were widely misused and prohibited because of that. Armstrongs first positive test was because of corticosteroids, but it was hushed up later (he got a prescription from a doctor saying that he used it because of a sore behind).

 

[4everchan]

i wasn't specifically pointing fingers at you... lance's sore behind LOL i'll refrain from commenting lol

I used "steroids" because this was the term that TSL used in the article. Corticosteroids are banned as well, although there is only very small evidence that corticosteroids really are performance enhancing, but they were widely misused and prohibited because of that. Armstrongs first positive test was because of corticosteroids, but it was hushed up later (he got a prescription from a doctor saying that he used it because of a sore behind).

 

[Globetrotter]

Yes, some athletes are allowed to take certain medication. Famous examples: Lance Armstrong was allowed to take testosterone because of his testicular cancer. The German weightlifter Steiner was allowed to take insulin because of his diabetes.

I think the text below the picture of Irina in the TSL article was nasty. And Rafael didn't imply that Irina did take steroids before her illness, he just said (and I have to agree with him) that certain drugs that an athlete has to take because of an illness might improve the athlete's performance as well. The sick athlete wouldn't be able to compete, so the medication is certainly performance enhancing, but to what degree? Is their an unfair advantage?

Ok I am going to wear my hat as a licensed clinical pharmacist. Steroids is a general term for a class of drugs, including testosterone, estrogens, prednisolone and anabolic steroids like stanazolol. Now they are steroids because they have a common chemical structure but the properties are vastly different. The doping steroids are primarily the anabolic steroids that build muscles and by that property, they also speed muscle injury recovery. Skaters like Irina was on prednisolone for autoimmune vasculitis. That's a condition where your immune system is attacking your own blood vessel tissues. It is something similar to SLE lupus or rheumatoid arthritis, very serious, painful and if left untreated, fatal. Prednisolone is life saving. Try competing with vasculitis when your blood vessels are all swollen and the water retention makes you tired and breathless. Prednisolone will not enhance the performance for sure!

 

[koatcue]

Why do I feel that TSL is trying so hard to find ANYTHING in skating? Putting shades on a long retired skater..Seriously? No respect:disagree: And they even put the title like "Cultural Thing".:disapp:

 

[silverfoxes]

Why do I feel that TSL is trying so hard to find ANYTHING in skating? Putting shades on a long retired skater..Seriously? No respect:disagree: And they even put the title like "Cultural Thing".:disapp:

The misinformation they spread makes me crazy. And sadly there is no shortage of gullible people who just swallow whatever they hear or read, especially when it concerns a country that is constantly painted in the worst light in our media (just look at our election...). I refuse to listen to TSL, but I was interested in what Raf had to say. I can give him a bit of leeway because English isn't his first language and it's not always easy to articulate yourself. But he has been away from Russia for a long time & I don't think his generalizations can be applied to every coach and every team there now. And imo, it's just horrible to insinuate someone was doping when they had permission to take a drug.

As for TSL, they know exactly what they are doing and they never change. :disapp: If they are so concerned with fairness and ethics, maybe they ought to look in a mirror.

 

[Giselle]

Why do I feel that TSL is trying so hard to find ANYTHING in skating? Putting shades on a long retired skater..Seriously? No respect:disagree: And they even put the title like "Cultural Thing".:disapp:

Honestly, I'm going to give TSL a pass next season unless it's an interview with a skating legend or something. TSL has now reached Aunt Joyce level of gossip, Jenny won't even be there in the fall and I'm not interested in the whole "Russian skaters are all cheaters" angle they've had going on since the beginning of the year.

They said that:
- Elizaveta Tuktamysheva's 2014-15 success was all due to meldonium (I guess meldonium didn't help her much in 2013-14?)
- Fedor Klimov faked injury to withdraw from Russian Nationals and Europeans (yet he looked very injuried at Worlds and TCC)
- Polina Tsurskaya and Alisa Fedichkina faked injuries to avoid getting tested at Junior Worlds, because as Russians they obviously were taking illegal drugs (even if Polina having won Youth Olympics was tested there a few weeks before, had a bad fall and injuried herself during official practice at Junior Worlds in front of coaches, skaters and journalists and Alisa Fedichkina got injuried while she was warming up for the LP, again in front of everyone. Watch this between 43 and 44 and you can see Alisa getting injuried and Polina in a wheelchair)

 

[plushyfan]

- Polina Tsurskaya and Alisa Fedichkina faked injuries to avoid getting tested at Junior Worlds, because as Russians they obviously were taking illegal drugs (even if Polina having won Youth Olympics was tested there a few weeks before, had a bad fall and injuried herself during official practice at Junior Worlds in front of coaches, skaters and journalists and Alisa Fedichkina got injuried while she was warming up for the LP, again in front of everyone. Watch this between 43 and 44 and you can see Alisa getting injuried and Polina in a wheelchair)

I read it then ..I live in Debrecen, I was at JWCH every day. Debrecen is a little town I had informations from the hospital some days later. They were definitely injured. Shame on Dave!

 

[hugo]

TSL this is simply another example of nasty american journalism, but I see that Arutyunyan would be happy to help them in this.
He does not say anything specific about anyone, but suggests a lot, that behind closed doors (for parents of students) of rinks may happen bad things with the 5-6 year old children (presumably, trainers feed them with drugs).

 

[mrrice]

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/what-we-do/science-medical/therapeutic-use-exemptions

It's not like athlete can take nothing and just let nature runs its course...
They just need to provide information and documentation they need it for therapeutic use and not for enhancing performance.

Then we can argue all you want about the fine line between "therapeutic" and "enhancing", but under current rules, TUE can be regularly applied.

This is an excellent comment and here's why. When I was given steroids for my knee injury, it was to "Heal" my injury. The fact that it made me stronger was a side effect that came with the medicine. As a dancer, I was not interested in building muscle or gaining strength. I had been dancing for more than 10 years and I was already strong. Frankly, I was more worried that Steroids would build too much muscle and that I'd lose flexibility in my muscles. Grand Jete's or "Falling Leafs" are very important to a lead dancer and in my case was more important than building more muscle. Steroids were used to shorten the recovery time and get me back on stage and that's it.

 

[bsfan]

It feels ridiculous that someone keep on using skeptical words on Sluskaya's therapeutic steroid usage. It was a known issue when she competed that her steroid didn't give her any advantage. It was on one of those fluffy piece. There is no reason that ISU, IOC or whatever orgs didn't know it. None of them charged her. And over ten years later someone 'knowledgeable' are indicating she was cheating.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It seems Rafael suggested that the vasculitis was caused by PED use in the first place, not that she was cheating with the approved use of prednisone.

 

[koatcue]

It seems Rafael suggested that the vasculitis was caused by PED use in the first place, not that she was cheating with the approved use of prednisone.

Poor sport to suggest anything 10 years later. Speculate, to say more acute.

 

[Mathman]

Poor sport to suggest anything 10 years later.

:yes: Speak now or forever hold your peace.