Sasha Cohen's I spin
- Thread starter icenut84
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Actually looking at the result of the poll, 36 LUV it and 33 hate it, 14 are OK and 13 don't really like it that much, can't see why some fan concluded that Cohen gets all the blame for it. This is a poll about Cohen's beaver cleaver, if there is another poll about Arakawa's then the result may be similar, so without data / poll about other skaters' one can not conclude that Cohen is the only who gets blame for it.
if we view impact as a function of both frequency and magnitude, then Cohen performs the beaver cleaver with the most number of times, and according to her fans she does it better i.e. with more magnitude than any other skaters, then obviously Cohen's beaver cleaver has more impact than others. Some of her fans may drool over the beaver cleaver and others think it is the ugliest move in all of figure skating. So obviously Cohen receives the most credit and criticism for this move. But if Cohen fan will look at the overall poll, 36 - 33 = +3, it is still in the plus column. Looking at the choices of OK, and don't really like it that much the ratio is 14:13, still a plus one on the more positive side. Obviously overall Cohen receives positive credit for this, how can some fan conclude that she is the only who gets blame for it is :scratch:
if we view impact as a function of both frequency and magnitude, then Cohen performs the beaver cleaver with the most number of times, and according to her fans she does it better i.e. with more magnitude than any other skaters, then obviously Cohen's beaver cleaver has more impact than others. Some of her fans may drool over the beaver cleaver and others think it is the ugliest move in all of figure skating. So obviously Cohen receives the most credit and criticism for this move. But if Cohen fan will look at the overall poll, 36 - 33 = +3, it is still in the plus column. Looking at the choices of OK, and don't really like it that much the ratio is 14:13, still a plus one on the more positive side. Obviously overall Cohen receives positive credit for this, how can some fan conclude that she is the only who gets blame for it is :scratch:
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gezando said:
What are you talking about? All I said was that out of ALL the skaters that perform the so-called "Beaver-Cleaver", Cohen's is the most talked about, therefore the most criticized (and the most praised), just like you also pointed out.
Just by looking at this thread, the title of it was" SASHA's I Spin", not "THE I Spin". If you read the thread a handful of people don't like the I-spin (personally, it's not my favorite either) no matter who does it. But because the thread is about Cohen there's no real way of knowing whether the results are based on the move itself or the way that SHE does it.
I think that it's OK to assume that she gets most of the blame for it though.
This is a free country, it is OK to assume anything. But your assumption may not be based on this poll. Where do you see the blame? In this poll there is more posters who drool over Cohen's beaver cleaver than posters who hates it so overall Cohen is not blamed for it at all.Red Dog said:
Mathman when did the cameras focus on Cohen's crotch during the beaver cleaver spin? I have never seen cameras with those kind of focus. Cameras usually show the entire skater. I have seen Cohen, and others like local novice skaters do the spin many time, it is IMO one of the ugliest move live or on TV, whether the camera focus is on or not on the skaters' crotch. But of course I am so glad that Cohen's BC spin live is such a highlight for your COI experience
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I'm talking of the posts in this thread. Out of those who DO criticize the move, Cohen gets the blame (most of it anyway) for doing it. In other words, she is targeted more than the other skaters who do it. I just think it's odd, that's all. But why am I talking about this? I think I'll back out of this topic now, as I have nothing more meaningful to say on the subject...
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- Mar 14, 2005
imanta said:
She does look more straight!
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- Jul 28, 2003
I voted ok, I suppose. I am from the "old school of figure skating" and find this spin very "unlady-like." Sasha is such a graceful skater, I don't find the move all that graceful. I wish she would not include it in every program. It is almost getting predictable how she will end her program. Needs a change.
This is a thread about Cohen's beaver cleaver, not a general thread about beaver cleaver. If you claim that she is targeted, then I agree she is targeted for the praise, swoon and drool from all the posters who just LUV her beaver cleaver.Red Dog said:
In a thread about Cohen's beaver cleaver, posters talk about her beaver cleaver, nothing is odd about that. IMHO if Cohen fans want to even the so call criticism, s/he can always start a thread about Arakawa's
Currently the poll shows 39 + 16 in the postive and 13 + 37 in negative, an overall positive and praise not criticism
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- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Both the Bielman and "I" positions have limited distribution among the skaters in figure skating and both require hands to hold these positions. If we judged the ice skating part of the positions, it is, imo, a difficult position to hold while spinning, and deserving of a higher level spin.
However, it is not open for all skaters due to body type and limbering exercises at a later stage in life. I, therefore, put these spins, which are limited to only certain skaters, in a class of acrobatics like the back sommersault.
For me, they are very 'sideshowish' and not my taste. However, the demand from fans to have the 'bar raised' in figure skating will allow these moves, limited to a handful of skaters, to increase (think flying bielmans) and actually take away from the sport rather than enhance it (think present day Pairs). It's ok to get more acrobatic if that is the way figure skating is going. It's just that I'm not taking that route.
At present, if there were a contest for the best forward camel spin, I can imagine 85 per cent of the figure skating world would be eligible to enter. If there were a contest for the best Bielman spin, I can imagine less than 5 per cent. So we are talking about the few skaters who have this acrobatic talent. OK, the more acrobatics, the more points and limited to the few. Am I correct?
Joe
However, it is not open for all skaters due to body type and limbering exercises at a later stage in life. I, therefore, put these spins, which are limited to only certain skaters, in a class of acrobatics like the back sommersault.
For me, they are very 'sideshowish' and not my taste. However, the demand from fans to have the 'bar raised' in figure skating will allow these moves, limited to a handful of skaters, to increase (think flying bielmans) and actually take away from the sport rather than enhance it (think present day Pairs). It's ok to get more acrobatic if that is the way figure skating is going. It's just that I'm not taking that route.
At present, if there were a contest for the best forward camel spin, I can imagine 85 per cent of the figure skating world would be eligible to enter. If there were a contest for the best Bielman spin, I can imagine less than 5 per cent. So we are talking about the few skaters who have this acrobatic talent. OK, the more acrobatics, the more points and limited to the few. Am I correct?
Joe
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- Joined
- Aug 7, 2003
I'd vote for all 4 choices if I could
yes its amazing that she can do that, but I hate the spin I think its ugly Its by far the uglest spin in skating, I haven't seen any skater that makes it look good. Ane even though I hate it, I don't mind if she does it I just wish she didn't do it in every single program, its far too over used. It doesn't belong in programs like R&J, nutcracker or SL.
yes its amazing that she can do that, but I hate the spin I think its ugly Its by far the uglest spin in skating, I haven't seen any skater that makes it look good. Ane even though I hate it, I don't mind if she does it I just wish she didn't do it in every single program, its far too over used. It doesn't belong in programs like R&J, nutcracker or SL.
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- Aug 7, 2003
Joe, would you put the donut spin in the same catergory? Just curious.
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- Jul 27, 2003
Joe, as far as I’m concerned you are correct., “the more acrobatics, the more points and limited to the few” and I’m not going that acrobatic/gymnastic route either.
Perhaps more points should be awarded to basic skills as compensation although I don't ,at this moment, know how to apportion the points.
Guess I’m just old fashioned in my skating style tastes..
4dk
Perhaps more points should be awarded to basic skills as compensation although I don't ,at this moment, know how to apportion the points.
Guess I’m just old fashioned in my skating style tastes..
4dk
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