Should solo dance be an international discipline?

[NaVi]

According to Dave Lease, (tweet now since deleted), the ISU voted to make solo dance an International discipline.

"The ISU has officially voted to make solo dance an international discipline. There will be international competitions in 2023 and there will eventually be a world championships. Kristen Fraser is co-chair of the international committee. She is also the caller for Skate America."

If this becomes the case, it's long overdue IMO. I foresee naysayers who will say that this will be even more subjective, political, and harder to judge than ice dance as it is but I don't care even if that is all true. If you want people to cultivate and then demonstrate good skating for itself then you need a platform specifically for that.

Now they just need a discipline that sits between singles and pairs without the difficult lifts and where it's feasible for someone to do both events during a season.

 

[yume]

I can see many retired or nearly retired skaters coming back for this.

 

[yesterday]

I can see many retired or nearly retired skaters coming back for this.

Are you talking about Ic3 ?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Are you talking about Ic3 ?

Excuse me? Why do you constantly have to mention me in the most obscure threads? I'm in the sport, I never freaking left.

 

[gmyers]

I love it!

 

[yesterday]

Excuse me? Why do you constantly have to mention me in the most obscure threads? I'm in the sport, I never freaking left.

um, constantly?
I know you're part of the sport, this would just be another way to be?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

um, constantly?
I know you're part of the sport, this would just be another way to be?

It's been more than once. And it's not "just another way to be." I'm now done with this. Let's all celebrate this success for the many competitive solo dancers out in the sport.

 

[yesterday]

It's been more than once. And it's not "just another way to be." I'm now done with this. Let's all celebrate this success for the many competitive solo dancers out in the sport.

well sorry, did not even @ you here. nvm

 

[lariko]

Kutovoy will be really good for it. Are they going to be unisex? Because, yeah, judging on it will be… it shouldn’t matter.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I can see many retired or nearly retired skaters coming back for this.

Alex Johnson; and Jeremy Abbott. Perhaps Tessa Virtue.

Plus, a bunch of ice dancers, who are recently partnerless.

 

[4everchan]

Well, at least according to Dave Lease

"The ISU has officially voted to make solo dance an international discipline. There will be international competitions in 2023 and there will eventually be a world championships. Kristen Fraser is co-chair of the international committee. She is also the caller for Skate America."

Long overdue IMO. I foresee naysayers who will say that this will be even more subjective, political, and harder to judge than ice dance as it is but I don't care even if that is all true. If you want people to cultivate and then demonstrate good skating for itself then you need a platform specifically for that.

Now they just need a discipline that sits between singles and pairs without the difficult lifts and where it's feasible for someone to do both events during a season.

starts well the tweet was deleted.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Kutovoy will be really good for it. Are they going to be unisex? Because, yeah, judging on it will be… it shouldn’t matter.

With pattern dances often there are different steps. In some cases easier, some cases harder. Domestic events are separated by sex, at the current stage.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Would much rather have a solo discipline with simpler jumps and non-leveled spins and footwork. The Artistic Program:

Minimum of 4 different jumps of 2Axel difficulty or greater, plus 4 other optional elements. Elements will have no base value or any difficulty requirements, except for a minimum of 8 revolutions in a spin and 5 seconds total in spiral position within a sequence for those elements to be considered sufficient optionals. Programs will be graded on 10.0 scale for both Technical and Artistic, with technical elements that are considered flawed getting anywhere from 0.05 to .3 total deduction (Lutz/Flip edges on Triples will not inherently count as a flaw, as those jump types are already considered sufficiently difficult enough; underrotations on jumps of 3Axel or higher difficulty will not inherently be considered flaws either, although ugly takeoff technique or loss of flow on landings can still impact the grade).

Basically any professional program Michelle Kwan did should be looked at as the standard of Gold-medal worthy here.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

If true (and that is a big "if", given that TSL is the source), it's about time!

All 8 categories of figure skating should have the same status.

Singles Skating​	Pairs Skating​	Ice Dance​	Team Skating​
Ladies Singles​	Pairs Skating​	Ice Dance​	Synchronised Skating​
Men’s Singles​	Fours Skating​	Solo Dance​	Theatre On Ice (or whatever you want to call it!)​

But, the problem is fitting them into the schedule at events. By increasing the number of segments being held, the duration of the events would have to be increased. And this would involve a lot of additional costs. And we all know there is a serious lack of money in this sport.

The alternative is to have different events for different categories. But, the calendar is jam-packed as it is. Most weeks we already have at least 2 or 3 events happening. Any more would push it beyond the saturation point for even the most die-hard fans. Plus, there are only a finite number of people who are qualified to be Technical Officials or Judges.

In short, giving all 8 categories the same status won't work.

But, it would be nice if the 4 categories that are not as well known as the others could get more recognition and promotion.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

Recognition from the ISU doesn't mean that solo dance will be added to worlds anytime soon... They probably would get their own WC just like syncrho.. as well as some competition series... It would need an Olympic berth for solo dance to be more visible. I am thinking that if it were "unisex" it may attract the IOC more than with separate disciplines...but is that possible and fair for skaters?

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Recognition from the ISU doesn't mean that solo dance will be added to worlds anytime soon... They probably would get their own WC just like syncrho.. as well as some competition series...

I agree that this is the most likely scenario. But, as I said in my previous post, the problem is fitting additional events into an already packed calendar. And finding willing hosts for something that is not mainstream and, hence, won't get the numbers of spectators needed to cover the costs.

It would need an Olympic berth for solo dance to be more visible. I am thinking that if it were "unisex" it may attract the IOC more than with separate disciplines...but is that possible and fair for skaters?

The Olympics are a whole different kettle of fish. There would be plenty of time in the schedule to include all 8 categories if they got rid of that stupid and pointless Team Event. Synchronised Skating and Theatre On Ice would easily fulfil the IOC's desire to have team competitions.

And having them on the roster at the Olympics would definitely increase their profile.

As for making the Solo Dance competitions "unisex", that is a big no. It would not make for a fair competition.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[4everchan]

I agree that this is the most likely scenario. But, as I said in my previous post, the problem is fitting additional events into an already packed calendar. And finding willing hosts for something that is not mainstream and, hence, won't get the numbers of spectators needed to cover the costs.



The Olympics are a whole different kettle of fish. There would be plenty of time in the schedule to include all 8 categories if they got rid of that stupid and pointless Team Event. Synchronised Skating and Theatre On Ice would easily fulfil the IOC's desire to have team competitions.

And having them on the roster at the Olympics would definitely increase their profile.

As for making the Solo Dance competitions "unisex", that is a big no. It would not make for a fair competition.

CaroLiza_fan

Wow.. Strong opinion I definitely do not share about the team event.
Of course, solo dance probably cannot be a "mixed" event. However, that is what the IOC is welcoming as new sports.. It's part of the current mission to reach not only gender equity but also mixed participation .... all sorts of mixed relays or mixed synchro diving or ski jumping and what not... This is why, a mixed solo dance competition might be attractive... but honestly, I do not see any figure skating of any kind added to the roster anytime soon... not with the repeated scandals... not with the simple fact that there are already so many athletes on site.. too many for a sport like synchro that, in my opinion, should be an Olympic event... and also, I am pretty sure that this solo dance event is not thoroughly represented across the globe to be featured at the games...

 

[Andrea82]

starts well the tweet was deleted.

well, the timing was strange
ISU Council met on 9-12 October. Earlier this week ISU released a Communication (number 2518) with the decisions taken and there was no mention of this.
Next Council meeting is on 24 November. So I was wondering when they could have voted on this as I suppose this is something that needs to go through at least ISU Council if not through Congress.

 

[lariko]

With pattern dances often there are different steps. In some cases easier, some cases harder. Domestic events are separated by sex, at the current stage.

I would have preferred mixed.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Wow.. Strong opinion I definitely do not share about the team event.
Of course, solo dance probably cannot be a "mixed" event. However, that is what the IOC is welcoming as new sports.. It's part of the current mission to reach not only gender equity but also mixed participation .... all sorts of mixed relays or mixed synchro diving or ski jumping and what not... This is why, a mixed solo dance competition might be attractive... but honestly, I do not see any figure skating of any kind added to the roster anytime soon... not with the repeated scandals... not with the simple fact that there are already so many athletes on site.. too many for a sport like synchro that, in my opinion, should be an Olympic event... and also, I am pretty sure that this solo dance event is not thoroughly represented across the globe to be featured at the games...

My gripe with the team event is that it should be after the main event rather than before, other than that I'm fine with it.

As for Solo dance, the judging is even more subjective and random than couples dance, which is going to be the main barrier to seeing it becoming an Olympic Sport. Perhaps with ISU they will propose stricter judging standards, and this can fix it - although with the way couples dance and even free is being judged at the moment I don't see it happening. That being said, popular sports with subjective judging are stating to take off at Olympics.
This now brings to light the viewership challenge. For avid skating fans, it's a fantastic discipline - for people who understand skating skills and the concepts behind high quality turns and steps, it provides a lot of entertainment. For the casual viewer, it doesn't really fulfil a niche as such to really gain high traction - and with marketability concerns it'd be hard to get it to the Olympics. Lots of performance aspects is evident in solo figure - even if the avid viewers can spot the differences in turn/edge quality and cleanliness.

The main thing with solo dance, is that until it takes off most of the top dancers will form couples. If it takes off, this might change in the future - and it'll be interesting to see the effect over say 5 years in the standard. It is however, worth noting, that there are many circumstantial issues that effect getting a partner. Particularly the ratio of women to men.
Some people, mostly women, due to citizenship, height, body shape, location etc and a lot of things out of their control do not have the opportunity to form a partnership in ice dance - especially one to match them. This leaves lots of solo skaters with amazing skating skills unable to compete internationally. This will allow those talents a chance to internationally succeed despite circumstances working against them.


Given the fact that men get partners much easier, I'd except at the senior solo dance level to see much higher quality and depth in the womens category (in addition to on average metrics such as flexibility). The additional strength and power (a.k.a typically the male advantage) doesn't really counteract this, so I can see argument for unisex solo dance (although pattern dances would need adjustments). Especially since the top male ice dancers find it easy to get partners. Of course, if solobdance takes off and becomes a more lucrative competition this might change things in both quality and depth. I'd still expect the women's field to be much deeper.

The last point I want to make may be a little "snobby". When adding a new event to the Olympics, they need to take into account how it will effect the other events. If the quality of the skaters isn't at the level of the more developed disciplines, it might reflect poorly on the other disciplines and damage the popularity of those. I'm not a believer in this point necessarily, but rather explaining another challenge if they want an olympic pathway in the future.

The final thing I want to note is that an event doesn't have to be an Olympic event to be successful. A world championships is meant to find the best skater in the world, and this could make solo dance a successful discipline reguardless of Olympic opportunities - such that we should try be supportive of it, both as preparation for future couples, and just as importantly if not more importantly as a stand alone discipline to allow those strong skaters with circumstantial difficulty a chance to find internationally success.