Should solo dance be an international discipline?

[skatesofgold]

NBC's Olympic coverage has traditionally been terrible. There have actually been news stories about how many people complain about NBC's coverage. They wanted more sports and less fluff. NBC has always responded that they have done research, that the majority of people who watch the Olympics are female, and that women want more fluff and less sports. It's gotten to where the coverage is ok with me because I watch the International feed and the only time I watch the NBC broadcast is to quickly check how they called a skate. ABC did a much better job IMHO and there was even one Olympics covered by CBS that wasn't bad.

I never saw the ABC years (too young), but I do remember when the Winter Olympics were still CBS, 1994 and 1998 in my case. Even the fluff and documentary features were better. I really enjoyed learning the story of Louis Zamperini before the 1998 closing ceremonies, which was long before the book, Unbroken. Most of the time I don't understand the point of fluff, though. They don't do fluff during the Stanley Cup, Super Bowl, World Series, and NBA Finals. If they do, it's minimal. I think the problem is how individual sports are treated versus team sports. I'm really glad for streaming, though, because I've hated commentary when I watch sports for a while now. I've gotten annoyed with biases in nearly all sports.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

we all know there is a serious lack of money in this sport

Which hampers development. So the ISU and federations should focus heavily on growing, promoting, and popularizing the sport. Instead, due to lack of leadership and vision, they lose long-time fans, in part by not ensuring fans' event streaming and archive-viewing needs are satisfied.

 

[Amei]

Which hampers development. So the ISU and federations should focus heavily on growing, promoting, and popularizing the sport. Instead, due to lack of leadership and vision, they lose long-time fans, in part by not ensuring fans' event streaming and archive-viewing needs are satisfied.

The ISU needs to steal away whoever in the Russian Fed or Channel 1 is over their figure skating promotion - some of its a bit corny but they promote the skaters/events well and even in the current state of them being banned, their events are far more accessible to me as an American over the big 'international' series.

 

[lariko]

The ISU needs to steal away whoever in the Russian Fed or Channel 1 is over their figure skating promotion - some of its a bit corny but they promote the skaters/events well and even in the current state of them being banned, their events are far more accessible to me as an American over the big 'international' series.

I know. I can literally watch younger age competition held in a remote village in Russia but our own Canadian Nationals or US Nationals? Not so much. I also find it ironic that as a Canadian who is not geoblocked on YouTube I can watch SkAm better than the Americans, lol.

Obviously, anything from Japan is like a frigging Matrix.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Fun fact: Yura Min passed freeskate tests in her dance blades. Then again, she is a beast.

I didn't say it can't be done, but that it naturally is NOT done for good reason. Just like there are many that learn dance in freestyle blades, again, it can be done but should not for many reasons, safety being number one. You don't want to hook heels with your partner nor do you want big bottom picks etc causing all kinds of drama.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Most ice dancers are never taught to jump beyond whatever they learnt in a learn-to-skate syllabus (I.e. waltz jump). Sure a split jump is good as an artistic transition, and maybe a choreographic jump is okay, but there shouldn't be any jumps (as in jumps defined in figure skating - past a single rotation), because firstly this DOES defeat the point of ice dance (which is meant to test technical skating skills, edge control etc above everything else). It just completely removes the niche that solo dance would hold as well, and disadvantages top ice dancers who never learnt how to jump (nor should have to learn). If you want jumps, free skating exists.

Step sequences in singles skating are totally different to ice dance. Most of not all free skaters on the international circuit don't do fully clean turns (including all the top skaters). They have clean entrance and exit edge, but often change edge over the turn itself, or more commonly hop the turn slightly. They are judged differently to ice dance step sequences, with different requirements as well in turns.
Step sequences in singles are about having a large quantity of turns in impressive arrangements. Ice dance it's about incorporating deep edges and cleaner turns. The way I see it, both are individual niches.

You could use my argument above for choreographic jumps being clearly different from jumps - but split jumps etc are already allowed in solo dance. They just aren't graded jumps (and IMO rightly so)

In terms of spins, spins have always been a technical part of both singles and ice dance. Historically. I don't think that's comparable to trying to add jumps to a sport that has Historically never had jumps.

Every bit of this. Hooray!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

x games and/or mixed events. The IOC wants to appeal to younger people AND are seeking gender equality.
What syncrho could do is impose a minimum of males in their teams in the hope to appeal to the IOC but that is still too many athletes..
What solo ice dance would need to do is find a way to have mixed competitions... but again... it's probably impossible to judge fairly.

IMHO the ISU's best bet is the equivalent to ski/snowboard cross on skates...
Crashed Ice.

I love this sport!

 

[WednesdayMarch]

x games and/or mixed events. The IOC wants to appeal to younger people AND are seeking gender equality.
What syncrho could do is impose a minimum of males in their teams in the hope to appeal to the IOC but that is still too many athletes..
What solo ice dance would need to do is find a way to have mixed competitions... but again... it's probably impossible to judge fairly.

IMHO the ISU's best bet is the equivalent to ski/snowboard cross on skates...
Crashed Ice.

Oh my! That is immense!

 

[theblade]

I didn't say it can't be done, but that it naturally is NOT done for good reason. Just like there are many that learn dance in freestyle blades, again, it can be done but should not for many reasons, safety being number one. You don't want to hook heels with your partner nor do you want big bottom picks etc causing all kinds of drama.

Oh, our family definitely knows this and wouldn't recommend it. My kid had two pairs of skates different blades while stilly trying to compete/test in two disciplines. Of course, that rarely works and it was only for a year.

My point was merely that in exceptional cases, it has been done. There are more than a few ice dancers that have tested their Senior Freeskate Test. I'm sure each skater has gone about this differently (testing out early; focusing on one set of tests for a few months; or the Yura Min nuclear option - testing in dance blades because she can).

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Oh, our family definitely knows this and wouldn't recommend it. My kid had two pairs of skates different blades while stilly trying to compete/test in two disciplines. Of course, that rarely works and it was only for a year.

My point was merely that in exceptional cases, it has been done. There are more than a few ice dancers that have tested their Senior Freeskate Test. I'm sure each skater has gone about this differently (testing out early; focusing on one set of tests for a few months; or the Yura Min nuclear option - testing in dance blades because she can).

Guilty!

 

[theblade]

Guilty!

So how did you go about it?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

So how did you go about it?

On Freestyle blades b/c I competed at the time in both disciplines LOL! I mean, I probably could have done it on dance blades but chose not to.

 

[Mathman]

Another aspect of competitive solo dance is that even if it fails to attract an audience or make any money for the ISU or for the skaters, , it could cretate opportunities for wider participation at the amateur/recreational/club level.

 

[gkelly]

I have no idea what the ISU is planning or how solo dance is practiced in other countries besides the US -- although I did hear about it in Britain around the turn of the century before it really took off in the US.

Here's the results page from this year's British Solo Ice Dance Championships:

British Solo Ice Dance Championships 2022

It looks like they do separate the events by gender. I'm not finding the rules.

Here is the results page from the recent US National Solo Dance Finals:

2022 National Solo Dance Finals

Event Results for 2022 National Solo Dance Finals

ijs.usfigureskating.org

No separation by gender. Few male skaters participating, but those that do compete in the same events as the girls/women.

The 2022 USFS rules are available on the Members Only site and are quite extensive, applying to pattern dance, variation dance, and free dance at lower levels, rhythm dance and free dance at higher levels, as well as shadow dance (two skaters performing the same steps of a pattern dance, not touching) at all levels. 2023 rules have not been published yet.

For pattern dances, "The required steps for solo dance will be the same for all competitors. Depending on the dance, the women’s, man’s or a combination of both may be used. Refer to the Pattern Dance Diagrams for the Solo Dance Steps to be skated for each dance."

Free dance elements are similar to those in partnered dance, with Edge Elements instead of lifts.

Illegal elements include jumps of more than one-half revolution, as well as some restrictions on half-revolution jumps.

Whenever the ISU does start an international circuit and publish solo dance rules, undoubtedly the US will follow the international rules for junior and senior levels, which may or may not be significantly different from what they have recently been domestically.

 

[gsk8]

Before this thread continues, do we even have a valid source that the ISU has announced this?

 

[wakey_skatey]

In the UK there is no separation by gender for the solo dance series except for the British Solo Dance Championships, age limits are also applied for this. Latest criteria can be found here https://www.iceskating.org.uk/post/solo-dance-technical-requirements-2023

 

[karne]

Before this thread continues, do we even have a valid source that the ISU has announced this?

We do not, just Lease on his bulldust again. Thanks for the title change.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

In the UK there is no separation by gender for the solo dance series except for the British Solo Dance Championships, age limits are also applied for this. Latest criteria can be found here https://www.iceskating.org.uk/post/solo-dance-technical-requirements-2023

True, but British championships is separated by sex. And even when mixed, people still do the different PDs which on international stage would not be fair as some steps are harder.

We do not, just Lease on his bulldust again. Thanks for the title change.

I have personal confirmation from a credible source. I cannot share this confirmation, but it will be happening from what I've heard.

 

[gkelly]

I heard something from the mother of a US solo dance competitor. I don't know what her sources are for this, but she does often chat with officials and coaches at the many solo dance events she attends.

 

[chiyung]

US Figure Skating revised its 2023 Solo Dance Handbook this past week specifically to add the ISU rules for solo dance so that American solo ice dancers will have the correct elements in their programs to compete internationally in 2023.
https://www.usfigureskating.org/skate/skating-opportunities/solo-dance

My daughter had previously competed many years in USFS solo dance, and she loves the sport.