Skaters who have done well only at senior level without success at juniors?

[cmk]

Tonya did compete as a junior but only managed to make junior nationals once and finished 5th or 6th. She was always a powerful jumper and spinner, but I think it was the figures that held her back until she came onto the scene as a senior.

 

[TT_Fin]

Some thoughts about Finns.
Though Laura Lepistö has been twice in top10 in junior Worlds, she was already then "senior-aged", 17-18 years old. Finland had so many good lady skaters during that time, that she did not get spots in seniors in big competitions before Euros 07/08, where she medalled at her first big senior competition and medalled every EC she and reachen top10 every worlds she took part in. I don't know how she did at JGP or did she take part in them, but I know she was injured for quite a long time when she was junior-aged.

Oona Ounasvuori has not got mentionable international success, but did not even make it to official national team before she was about 19 or 20, so I can mention her also because she has competed at Euros.

Also Viveca Lindfors was at her best when she was 19. According to ISU profile she has been 3rd once at national juniors, but I cannot remember her junior times or how she has done at JGP. At least she has never won nationals in juniors or novices.

 

[Charlotte 71]

This goes way back to the figures era, but Caryn Kadavy, one of my favorite skaters of that era, was a late bloomer. I don't think she ever made it to Nationals before Senior ladies, and then she went to Carlo Fassi and made a huge splash her first year at Nationals - was bronze medalist in 1985, but didn't go to Worlds because only two women were allowed that year - but then went to Worlds thereafter and won World bronze in 1987. She was on the 1988 Olympic team but I think had to withdraw due to flu. A lovely skater - her 1987 Worlds performance was one for the ages, prompting Dick Button to say something like, "This is what we always dreamed ladies skating could be." (paraphrasing).

 

[eppen]

Some thoughts about Finns.
Though Laura Lepistö has been twice in top10 in junior Worlds, she was already then "senior-aged", 17-18 years old. Finland had so many good lady skaters during that time, that she did not get spots in seniors in big competitions before Euros 07/08, where she medalled at her first big senior competition and medalled every EC she and reachen top10 every worlds she took part in. I don't know how she did at JGP or did she take part in them, but I know she was injured for quite a long time when she was junior-aged.

Oona Ounasvuori has not got mentionable international success, but did not even make it to official national team before she was about 19 or 20, so I can mention her also because she has competed at Euros.

Also Viveca Lindfors was at her best when she was 19. According to ISU profile she has been 3rd once at national juniors, but I cannot remember her junior times or how she has done at JGP. At least she has never won nationals in juniors or novices.

Hmm, sorry to scold you a little bit, my dear countryperson (and also almost everyone else in this thread), but there are plenty of sources to check the career data! (Greetings from the frustrated researcher.) Links here simply to Wikipedia, but more data eg in Rink Results and the other score databases for the IJS era skaters.

Elina Kettunen kind of started the streak of goodish Finnish women at the turn of the millennium and she is perhaps the one who is relatively poorly documented, but her Wikipedia page does include quite a lot of results. She apparently did nationals in seniors from quite early on and mostly managed to medal, No great international JGP success and no medals in seniors beyond the Nordics ones.

Alisa Drei medaled in juniors internationally and medaled in a GP as the best result.

Susanna Pöykiö was super successful as a junior both in domestic and and international competitions, did also well in seniors although she did not go all the way to the top.

Kiira Korpi was the same as Susanna as was also Laura Lepistö - medals in JGPs, national successes and also senior success.

Viveca Lindfors medaled in juniors nationally, but not in JGP although she won a couple of minor international competitions. Did good in the end in seniors (I am very happy to have witnessed her medal in Minsk!).

I really can't think of any Finnish skater who would have burst into the senior scene without any junior success at least in the nationals. Other names that came to mind were Jenni Vähämaa (had to retire far too quickly due to injuries), Juulia Turkkila (in ice dance now), Jenni Saarinen, and Emmi Peltonen who all have had pretty good junior records even when their senior careers have not been that great.

E

 

[TT_Fin]

Hmm, sorry to scold you a little bit, my dear countryperson (and also almost everyone else in this thread), but there are plenty of sources to check the career data! (Greetings from the frustrated researcher.) Links here simply to Wikipedia, but more data eg in Rink Results and the other score databases for the IJS era skaters.

Elina Kettunen kind of started the streak of goodish Finnish women at the turn of the millennium and she is perhaps the one who is relatively poorly documented, but her Wikipedia page does include quite a lot of results. She apparently did nationals in seniors from quite early on and mostly managed to medal, No great international JGP success and no medals in seniors beyond the Nordics ones.

Alisa Drei medaled in juniors internationally and medaled in a GP as the best result.

Susanna Pöykiö was super successful as a junior both in domestic and and international competitions, did also well in seniors although she did not go all the way to the top.

Kiira Korpi was the same as Susanna as was also Laura Lepistö - medals in JGPs, national successes and also senior success.

Viveca Lindfors medaled in juniors nationally, but not in JGP although she won a couple of minor international competitions. Did good in the end in seniors (I am very happy to have witnessed her medal in Minsk!).

I really can't think of any Finnish skater who would have burst into the senior scene without any junior success at least in the juniors. Other names that came to mind were Jenni Vähämaa (had to retire far too quickly due to injuries), Juulia Turkkila (in ice dance now), Jenni Saarinen, and Emmi Peltonen who all have had pretty good junior records even when their senior careers have not been that great.

E

Thank you for the info. Laura was injured on that time when Kiira came out, so I cannot remember her previous years They had been friends since childhood even they are not from the same area, but had competed together. She said in some interview that she was home suffering from injuries and suddenly Kiira's face was in every media.

I just tried to check Wikipedia - my mistake was only to check the Finnish site, the English one was much informative at least about Laura - local feds statistics but I found only the winners and ISU profiles, but because ISU profiles shows only eight season, I was too lazy to find more . I must admit I have not followed juniors much. I remember I saw Juulia T. on junior nationals and had a thought we will hear about her later. She finished 4th then and only one I remember is Beata Papp who won. I promise to improve my habits and check both Finnish and English sites at the future.

Jenni Vähämaa did finally retire because of lack of motivation after being injured so long. It was a pity, she was so talented.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I'd say Rika Kihira. She hasn't won a medal at a big event, but she was the top senior in 2018-19 leading up to Worlds while just 8th at Junior Worlds the previous year.

 

[bartlebooth]

Brian Joubert. 4th on the JGP, 15th at Junior Worlds.
Then, 10 straight Euro medals and 6 World medals as a senior.

 

[LiamForeman]

I believe she skipped from Novice to Senior

That was my thought too. I remember a commentator saying she landed a 3lutz as an eleven year old Novice and they called her a Triple Threat or something. Nothing was mentioned about Juniors. I suppose she was eligible for Seniors after that, and went to work.

 

[yume]

Brian Joubert. 4th on the JGP, 15th at Junior Worlds.
Then, 10 straight Euro medals and 6 World medals as a senior.

Wow, i didn't know he won so much worlds medals.

I thought the late bloomer of the late bloomers Akiko Suzuki would fit in this category but she won a JGPF bronze apparently.
She just took her time to start win things in seniors. I think her first GP medal came at 23yo and she went to olys at 24yo (almost 25). Worlds medal at 27yo.

 

[eppen]

Rika Kihira medaled in quite a few of her JGPs and got gold in her last nationals as a junior although did not make good in the jr worlds.

But Brian Joubert is a pretty good candidate actually. His best achievement in juniors was a silver in the French nats, no medals or wins in the international scene although he got to two pewters in JGPs. But still has some kind of junior success.

Caryn Kadavy was apparently not very good in her junior years. There was nothing on Wikipedia about her junior stage at national level, but in an interview, she implied that the 1985 senior nats were her first ones and she medaled. But as said, it is kind of difficult to compare the situation in the 1980s to what juniors do these days.

Akiko sadly battled an eating disorder between her junior and senior careers, which accounts for the late senior career. But her junior career was pretty stellar.

Pretty tough to find a skater who would not have had at least national success as a junior?

I just tried to check Wikipedia - my mistake was only to check the Finnish site, the English one was much informative at least about Laura - local feds statistics but I found only the winners and ISU profiles, but because ISU profiles shows only eight season, I was too lazy to find more .

After researching all kinds of things figure skating for years now, I can confidently say that the English language Wikipedia is a pretty good source for overall information about skating careers. The ISU profiles are ok if there is absolutely nothing on the skater's English page.

For the IJS period results, Rink Results is one of the best because it holds a lot of nationals and lower level internationals data. Skating Scores has nice statistics, but lacks in national level info. Stats on Ice is particularly good with the North American competitions, but you have to pay for it and the most recent seasons were not there a few weeks ago when I last used it. This Japanese site is the best if you wish to research elements.

Surprisingly enough, some of the big nations are kind of hard. US and Japanese nationals data can be found pretty good in Rink Results. Canadians are almost hopeless - the fed site does not feature usually but basic result lists, no score sheets etc. iceXel has a lot of data in it, but does not necessarily cover every season. Not very search friendly. And the Russians... Well, you have to know the alphabet a little bit to use even the English version of All Skaters. It is a bit sketchy on early IJS, but the current situation is pretty well covered. No search possibilities, so you have to do a lot of manual checking to get whatever info you want. They're also extending themselves to the international scene.

E

 

[MiraiFan]

This goes way back to the figures era, but Caryn Kadavy, one of my favorite skaters of that era, was a late bloomer. I don't think she ever made it to Nationals before Senior ladies, and then she went to Carlo Fassi and made a huge splash her first year at Nationals - was bronze medalist in 1985, but didn't go to Worlds because only two women were allowed that year - but then went to Worlds thereafter and won World bronze in 1987. She was on the 1988 Olympic team but I think had to withdraw due to flu. A lovely skater - her 1987 Worlds performance was one for the ages, prompting Dick Button to say something like, "This is what we always dreamed ladies skating could be." (paraphrasing).

To this day I am absolutely gutted that she missed the free skate in Calgary due to the flu.

 

[TT_Fin]

For the IJS period results, Rink Results is one of the best

It provides Laura L. has had good junior years also.

 

[Alchamei]

Satoko Miyahara perhaps, I think her highest at JuWorlds was 6th and wasn't a top contender.

 

[yume]

Satoko Miyahara perhaps, I think her highest at JuWorlds was 6th and wasn't a top contender.

4th i think. I remember she finished less than 1 point behind Medvedeva in 2014. While she won 4CC silver a few weeks ago with higher PCS.
That's partly why i don't like when skaters with senior ISU championships assignements are sent to junior worlds again.

But yes she didn't win any major medal in juniors.

 

[eppen]

But Satoko medaled in JGPs, she even qualified for the JGPF, and won at nationals. Maybe not absolute top tier, but certainly very good.

The idea was after all to find someone who really had not excelled at all in juniors at national or international scenes.

So far no one from the IJS era although Brian Joubert was not so successful in junior competitions at the turn of the millennium. Possibly Harding and probably Kadavy from the 1980s.

E

 

[LisaD]

Oksana Baiul - As far as I know she never competed internationally as a junior.

 

[eppen]

Oksana Baiul - As far as I know she never competed internationally as a junior.

She is a pretty good candidate, went straight to seniors internationally and there are no records for national level junior success.

But Phil Hersh in distant 1994 tells us that she was the Ukranian jr champion at the age of 11. These days I am very suspicious of journalistic commitment to fact checking, but in 1994 it was still a norm, so I take it as something that really did happen. Just not recorded in a way that would have ended up in Wikipedia apparently. So she ticks the box "national success as a junior".

But she was really the first flash senior career: entered the first international seniors in the fall of 1992 (though she was almost 15 at the time making her not very exceptional at the time when 12-year-olds could skate senior), did ok, but nothing spectacular, and then in the spring, medaled at Europeans and won the Worlds. And was gone a bit more than a year afterwards with the OGM.

I remember 1993 - no one basically knew she existed before the Europeans, but before the free she was already talked about as a favourite to win (though Bonaly took it in the end)! She apparently made a huge impression just in the practices.

E

 

[surimi]

I would say Kvitelashvili had fairly little junior success, though he did win one JGP bronze IIRC. And look where he's now.

 

[4everchan]

Kaetlyn Osmond never won medals as a junior except for a bronze at canadian nationals... she is a late bloomer acquiring lutz and loop a bit later on... she used to jump the 3t-3t earlier in her career as well... of course, after a great start at Skate Canada where she won her first GP medal, she had injuries that set her back for a while until her incredible achievements !

Gabrielle Daleman also never won much in juniors though she did win Nationals at about 14?? Then went on to seniors nationally but placed behind Kaetlyn and was sent to Junior Worlds where she finished 6th. She won a JGP bronze... but that's pretty much it... what is even more surprising in her case is that she has never won any senior GP event medal... yet she has a 4CC medal, a world medal and did very well in the team event at the olympics finishing 3rd in her segment on the road to Olympic Gold.

Madeline Schizas has never even competed on the JGP circuit nor junior worlds... she hasn't achieved major results on the senior scene but right now, it's a very crowded field.

I am mentioning her because there are some Canadian women skaters who are later bloomers... Madeline just acquired her triple lutz last year and it came with + 3t.

Even Joannie Rochette didn't do much in juniors.. a JGP bronze, and a 5th or 6th at Junior worlds...but had worlds and olympic success.

Cynthia Phaneuf was a different skater in juniors and even as a senior nationally where she had some successes. She also won Skate Canada and a silver at 4cc.. but then grew several inches and it took a long time before she regained her momentum.... the year she placed 5th at worlds was pretty much even with Lepisto for bronze

I think that it is difficult to compare the trajectories from federation to federation... or even from skater to skater... but it seems that in Canada, the women are not too successful in juniors but do manage to do better in seniors. Late bloomers + a certain longevity.

 

[yume]

I'm starting to think that champions can't come out of nowhere. Everyone medaled at least at junior nats. Though there are some who skate in juniors till the "old age" of 17/18yo.

I was reading the list of Japanese junior nats medalists and i saw Lucinda Ruh in it! Lucinda Ruh, a swiss, won bronze at 1994-95 Japanese junior nats
Can non-japanese single skaters (i guess it's different for pairs and ice dance) still compete at nats?