skating careers

[engrsktr]

skating careers

I am very disappointed with the skating of the last decade - mostly because of the newer rule that allows amateurs to earn money and retain eligibility. I understand that it is important that these skaters be able to support themselves so that they can train extensively, but where does that leave the viewer, the skater, and future skaters? I am sorry, but there comes a point in every skaters "career" when it is time to move on. Not because they can't keep up with the newer skaters, and not because they need the money (Lord knows), but because they get "old". If "amateur" skaters don't leave the "amateur" ranks soon enough, they are unable to push themselves and their skating styles - they become stagnant. it also leaves many young skaters with fewer slots to fill.... which I think hurts the emerging talent and the rejuvenation of the skater pool.
Competitive skating isn't around for the audience ... if fans want to see the same skater over and over - that's what the professional ranks are for. But with this muddled line, there is just too much overexposure for eligible skaters.

 

[Ladskater]

Re: skating careers

engrsktr:

Interesting thoughts indeed! There was a time when skaters simply could not afford to keep competing in the amatuer ranks and so had to move on. Skaters the likes of Donald Jackson, Barbara Ann Scott and Karen Magnussen quickly turned pro after their competitive years. They simply were not allowed to keep competing. Things certainly have changed! Now we see skaters debating whether to "hang up their skates" competively or should they keep going? It's debatable. One does like to see a skater finally reach his or her goal - I am glad Bourne and Kraatz hung in there one more season! It's also a good morale booster for the new skaters coming on the scene to have these veteran skaters around to inspire them and "show them the ropes." So it's not all that bad for these elite veteran skaters to "hang around" a little longer!


Ladskater

 

[Joesitz]

Re: skating careers

I think that started with all sports back in the days of the USSR who did not recognize amateur status. The USSR Sports Federation said all sportsmen should compete in international games.

Many Americans were shocked but they soon picked up on it when they were allowed to have endorsements and get paid for it. It was not just figure skating.

Joe

 

[Kara Bear]

Re: skating careers

I thin sometimes its good to have older more experienced competitors around. For me, Maria B. was refreshing at a time when a lot of skaters were 16 year old jumping beans.

But on the other hand, some skaters do stick around the amateur world too long. I think Elvis, although I love him, stayed in too long and had to leave the amateur world at his lowest competitive level. And I think Mike W. is getting pretty close to being stale for me.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that it all comes down to the individual. If they have the skills and drive to compete with the youngins, why not stay in? IMO, the pro world status has sunk to an all time low and I can understand why some skaters want to stay in the amateur ranks where all the fame and now lots of money can be found.

 

[eltamina]

Re: skating careers

Ladskater, ITA about B&K.

BTW, I want to see Jennifer Robinson skate for another decade in the eligible ranks.

I think there is a lot of value for younger skaters to actually beat the greats. I do not buy the belief that the great ones should just step aside.


<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congratulations Fumie, please compete for 10 more years</span>

 

[Ptichka]

Re: skating careers

Elvis IS a good example. Yes, he did not leave when he should have, but he did not keep any young skaters from anything, as he simply stopped getting the medals. I think the figure skating field should have basically a "market economy", where market=medals, placements, endorsements, etc. I have no problem with skaters staying longer in eligible ranks.

 

[engrsktr]

Re: skating careers

Actually, elvis staying around kept another canadian skater off the podium who could have probably used the experience Many times it comes down to timing for skaters, and these "older" skaters that stick around can really throw a wrench into things... not always, but sometimes- especially if there is more than one skater 'sticking around'.
I just think that the skating audience is getting used to seeing skaters "compete" like they used to watch them in the professional competitions and shows. To me there just is a time to leave graciously and gratefully. After a while, it becomes clear that either ego or self-validation become the issue with these skaters staying around... and not necessarily the competition in the true sense of skating. The eligibility line that was blurred is also hurting the professional ranks - there aren't as many quality professional things happening as there were in the past. And why should there be if amateurs stick around "just because they can". Just because you can doesn't always mean you should....

 

[RoaringSkates]

Re: skating careers

I don't understand why we think that skating should somehow be different from other sports. In basketball, I never heard fans talking about how Robert Parrish should have stepped aside to make room for a younger person. If Robert was good enough to play and be chosen by a team, then he was welcome, even when he was long past his prime. Likewise, in skating, I think that the "old" folks should continue to compete. The younger competitors are welcome to beat the heck out of them and take their place in international competitions. However, so long as the "old" folks keep beating the younger ones and winning a high placement at their country's nationals, they are qualified for Worlds, and they should be there.

That said, judges should judge what they see fairly. If a less known skater fairly beats an old-timer, then they should be placed higher than the old-timer.

And the USFSA does make sure that their up and coming skaters get international experience. Not only do we see non-top-3 skaters at the GP series, but we also see the many potential future stars at the more "minor" internationals.

 

[Ptichka]

Re: skating careers

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">And the USFSA does make sure that their up and coming skaters get international experience. Not only do we see non-top-3 skaters at the GP series, but we also see the many potential future stars at the more "minor" internationals.</blockquote>
I don't know. I feel that Todd was often held up because he was around for so long.

 

[engrsktr]

Re: skating careers

Actually if you listen to the common man at a sports bar they will probably say that Jordan was great but he should leave now.... he's just not the same... that being said, perhaps some of the "old timers" should perhaps step down... and granted the "older" skaters are still skilled enough to beat the young ones.. of course they are - they are still able to lace up skates..... there are many professionals that can still beat the eligible skaters.... no question.... but does that mean they should stay around... not necessarily.
And the fact that these old timers have the reputations that they have leads to the judges holding them up - judging will never be completely objective... no matter what anyone says... a young skater will come along and face an "old timer" and not win simply because they are new on the scene and they haven't proven themselves like the more mature skater... even if the younger skater outskates the older!
I'm not saying there should be a time limit for skaters... I'm simply saying that when a skater stops growing technically and artistically and has leveled out, it's time to move on.....

 

[mathman444]

Re: skating careers

Engrsktr, now you've got me curious. Did you have in mind a particular skater when you started this thread? I know that there has been a lot of talk on the internet recently suggesting that Sasha should "go pro" to make room for Ann Patrice, Jenny Kirk, Bebe Liang, etc.

Naturally Sasha's fans are saying, hey AP, if you want a piece of Sasha, there she is, beat her if you can!

Fortunately for us, Sasha doesn't make her career decisions based on internet chit-chit.

Mathman

 

[engrsktr]

Re: skating careers

actually I didn't have any one particular skater in mind... there have been a few actually..... so no mathman, no one in particular...
and sasha just got here.... why would she go anywhere... she has yet to reach that point of success and plateau....

 

[eltamina]

Re: skating careers

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Actually if you listen to the common man at a sports bar they will probably say that Jordan was great but he should leave now.... he's just not the same[/quote]

Which sports bars are you referring to? I talked to plenty of Wizard fans online and they want Jordan to stay. Jordan staying in the NBA is good for the game even though he is not at his peak, because it is good for the young guys to beat him, and know that they can.

It may be time for MJ to leave because some younger guys have consistently beating him in the past few seasons.

About Elvis, I think he left at the appropriate time. He has been placing high in worlds to get world berths for Canada for years!!! What a skater.

Figure skating is a sport, and if younger skater(s) can consistently beat the great ones, then it is time for the greats to step down. I know no one stays on top or even on the podium forever. So let the younger skater(s) beat the older champions. I absolutely do not agree to advocate for the great champions who can still outskate the young ones fair and square to step aside. It is not good for the game. Kobe and Shaq have the confidence and satisfaction that they have beat MJ for the past <strong>few</strong> years, I do not see anything similar in figure skating yet.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats to Michelle, Elena, and Fumie</span>

<span style="color:blue;font-size:large;">When all is said and all is done, Shelly five + three + one , trolls none ~ Freddy</span>

 

[mathman444]

Re: skating careers

Some people are saying that Sasha hasn't really improved much since she was atempting quads back in 2001. What do you think?

Mathman

 

[engrsktr]

Re: skating careers

it takes time to get consistency, especially when you're talking a quad for a woman.... and she isn't the most consistent skater right now either... she has yet to reach that plateau.....

 

[engrsktr]

Re: skating careers

there are many that say Jordan has hurt his legend by staying around too long.... I agree....
no one is advocating just bowing out... but when a certain plateau has been reached, it is appropriate to move onward and upward.... and when a "legend" stays around so long, it is harder for the younger skaters to beat them fair and square.... if not simply because of their name! (especially at the national level).....

 

[eltamina]

Re: skating careers

Jordan is not hurting his legend status at all, he is a legend. It it is time for him to leave, because Kobe and Shaq has beat him consistently for a few years now. Jordan should retire, because young guys are consistently beating him, not because his skills have slow down.Some athlete's plateau is higher than others peaks.

If you have any specific champion skater(s) and any competitions involving these champion skaters in mind that you think the judges have marked them inaccurately, then please back that up with tech and presentation merits according to the ISU rule book preferably.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats, Michelle, Elena, and Fumie</span>

<span style="color:blue;font-size:xx-large;">When all is said and all is done, Shelly five + three + one , trolls none ~ Freddy </span>

 

[ApacheApache]

Re: skating careers

In any sport, I strongly feel old athletes should stay as long as they want. It adds more spice to the competitions. I don't buy the argument that veterans make competitions boring because they are always on the podium. If this is so, then the young athletes had better do something about it to beat the crap out of these old people. If they no longer can compete with the young ones, naturally they will call it quits. The fittest survive, no one cares if they are young or old. Sports are not run by communists, no athlete should be forced or made obligated to leave when they are past their prime.

Now as for figure skating, speaking as an outsider, I so often hear people questioning Michelle's decision to stay when no one suggests it's time Irina, Fumie, Elena quit. Seriously, this sport really baffles me to no end. LOLOL.

 

[engrsktr]

Re: skating careers

No one is saying that they should be made to leave... no one said that...
I don't think veterans make the competition boring becuase they are on the podium all the time... I think they make it boring because they do the same things all the time... they have reached their plateau! No one is saying they aren't good... and can't stay around because they aren't good enough..... they are always going to be better than most of the up-and-comers.... and therein lies the problem... if they can always be as good as the newbies, then why have any new skaters... just let them reign as national champion and world champion until they retire from old age! (as old as that can be nowadays! )

 

[eltamina]

Re: skating careers

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>then why have any new skaters... just let them reign as national champion and world champion until they retire from old age! [/quote]

Hyperbole? No one stays on top forever, the bright young ones will beat them. I am just advocating the NBA model, since you brought up MJ to have the young stars beat them consistently for some time, as KObe and Shaq had done to MJ. We haven't seen anything like that in figure skating yet.

About boring, it is easy. If I find any skater boring, I just take a regrigerator break when they skate.

<span style="color:red;font-size:medium;">Congrats, Michelle, Elena and Fumie</span>

<span style="color:blue;font-size:large;">When all is said and all is done, Shelly five + three + one , trolls none ~ Freddy </span>