- Joined
- Mar 26, 2004
Since when has artistry and beautiful vision been the exclusive property of "Russian style" coaches/choreographers?? Every good coach knows you need both art and architecture for the thing to hold up.
Tarasova is a destructive influence on American skaters
- Thread starter krenseby
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
I don't think the topic is about Style and certainly not Russian because I perceive Russian style for all Russian skaters to be cut from the same bolt.
The thread is about TT and was she destructive on American skaters. The only two I know of is Johnny and Sasha. IMO, neither of them progressed from what they already had under TT but TT did give them some great choreography and with it a certain finesse about their personal styles of skating. I contend those two skaters gained something from TT.
Artistry is not something I would suggest in skating forums because most fans associate skating with ballet which it is not, and not necessary. I sometimes wonder when a fan screams ballet if that fan has actually seen a ballet.
Joe
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
*GASP!* This poster forgot that after Michelle got a program from TT, she could no longer skate! Definitely part of a deal with her former students, Shizuka and Sasha, and of course, to make sure that a Russian (Irina) was on the podium. She is out to destroy US Skating! :chorus:
Tonya Harding should've hired her to choreograph for Nancy in 94.
Tonya Harding should've hired her to choreograph for Nancy in 94.
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- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
Exactly. I just can't see how "beautiful skating" and "great choreography" can be a bad thing.
Many people think that Mao can not land triple salchow and triple toe. Actually she did a 2 axel and 3 toe combination jump at the NHK Cup last year. And she also did 3 salchow at the Japanese Nationals almost four years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K595v378aY8&feature=related
Until now she has not needed those jumps. Now faced with the strict edge judging, she will have to introduce them again.
Well if you are going to call this thread "retarded", use your own words instead of quoting someone else's.
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Just curious, do you have anything against Priscilla besides her lack of coaching and control she had over Johnny last season (I know that's enough but as I said, just curious)
momjudi, I understand you're just curious, but the thing is, I can only please one special person per day. Ask me tomorrow again, OK?
Sorry, I did not make myself understood clearly enough. I just made my story more interesting by adding some spice.
I hear that Tarasova approached Mao, not the other way around. Krenseby said that Mao's jumping ability have deteriorated because of Tarasova's influence, so, I add my imagination, the Korean conspiracy theory to Krenseby's opinion to make it more interesting. My imagination is that there is the Korean Federation behind the scheme and they actually made Tarasova approach Mao and persuade Mao into pursuing artistic greatness first and Mao's jumping ability deteriorates because of it. That is the outcome that the Korean Federation hoped for from the beginning. Do not you thnk it is good imagination?
So you're a big fan of conspiracy theory, huh?
But be careful! Imagining yourself is one thing and saying it as if it is fact is another. The former is simply delusional but the latter is rather crimial.
Besides, to my understanding, it was team Mao's decision of this season to focus on "artistry" rather than fixing technial problems. So far it also worked, didn't it? Her TES and PCS says it.
So you're a big fan of conspiracy theory, huh?
But be careful! Imagining yourself is one thing and saying it as if it is fact is another. The former is simply delusional but the latter is rather crimial.
Besides, to my understanding, it was team Mao's decision of this season to focus on "artistry" rather than fixing technial problems. So far it also worked, didn't it? Her TES and PCS says it.
Goury, humor has it's place. That just about sums it up ;-)
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2003
Actually, I think there is something to why TT works better for Russian and Japanese skaters than she does for Americans, and it has nothing to do with aesthetic preference. TT is a Soviet coach who demands total dedication and total obedience from her athletes; it's not for naught that she is the daughter of the Anatoly Tarasov, one of the greatest and most dictatorial hockey coaches ever. She says she doesn't want to work with automatons; however, all this means is that the feistier of her students such as Yagudin or Bestemianova could argue with her regarding the direction of their training or programs. However, once she would make up her mind, she did indeed demand blind obedience. In one of the parts of the movie on Tarasova, Bukin talks about actually being noxious from fatigue after the practice - that's her standard. I think that despite the lip service she may pay to the more modern teacher/ student relationships, it is that more traditional model she needs to be at her best as a coach.
Oh, and as to beauty in skating and Johnny... I think that if he were only presented with boring element-by-element programs, Johnny would become totally de-motivated and/or quit skating altogether. He is an artist, and it is creating beautiful pieces on the ice that keeps keeps him going to a large degree.
Finally, I don't think it's right too rely too heavily on Tarasova's comments as a judge of a celebrity skating show. Naturally, show skating is more geared toward being, well, showy. I think it is unwise to think that TT does not wear very different hats as a coach and as a judge of a made-for-TV nothing-to-do-with-the sport show. To get a better gauge of what she actually thinks as a coach/ choreographer, consider her comments during the GP events. While some of them are indeed aesthetic-based (for example, she seemed appalled that Uspenski's FS choreography had nothing at all to do with the music), most of what she says is actually quiet technical. Mostly, when she criticizes programs it is the criticism of specific elements, such as footwork, spin, or spiral being at a lower level than she believes the skater is capable of.
Oh, and as to beauty in skating and Johnny... I think that if he were only presented with boring element-by-element programs, Johnny would become totally de-motivated and/or quit skating altogether. He is an artist, and it is creating beautiful pieces on the ice that keeps keeps him going to a large degree.
Finally, I don't think it's right too rely too heavily on Tarasova's comments as a judge of a celebrity skating show. Naturally, show skating is more geared toward being, well, showy. I think it is unwise to think that TT does not wear very different hats as a coach and as a judge of a made-for-TV nothing-to-do-with-the sport show. To get a better gauge of what she actually thinks as a coach/ choreographer, consider her comments during the GP events. While some of them are indeed aesthetic-based (for example, she seemed appalled that Uspenski's FS choreography had nothing at all to do with the music), most of what she says is actually quiet technical. Mostly, when she criticizes programs it is the criticism of specific elements, such as footwork, spin, or spiral being at a lower level than she believes the skater is capable of.
Wow that's really interesting. It sort of makes sense that Russian and Japanese students are more obedient to their teachers because of their cultural norms.
I read somewhere on the web that TT calls Mao in a sweet name, Maozaechka. I also imagine that Mao would be perhaps good at living up to disciplined training.
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- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
Now that makes sense. I remember when I was playing volleyball in Jr high school in Japan, I got ***** slapped if I hit the ball out or missed digging opponents spikes druing games in front of all other students and parents watching us. My coach kicked me once in the stomach during the practice when I messed up setting up a ball for one of our spikers. I thought that was normal back then... Is that how Tarasova coach skaters??
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
This is a too heavy accusation to lay on TT. You have a great imagination, but It is a twisted idea and totally wrong. Johnny had never had TT to be his coach. She was only a choreographer and sometimes a short time helper. It's totally different from a coach. Both Sasha and Johnny have been having their own, in some part, similar problems with or without TT, before and after TT. It's their loss to not totally meet with what TT required, and sometimes, in Sasha's case, against her. I agree with what Ptichka said above. Had Sasha and Johnny learned more Russian way, be more like Alexei Yagudin, and Evgeni Plushenko for that matter, they would have been more successful.
Sadly Sasha has lost her opportunities. Now I've seen Johnny is more like a Russian with his new, in some way similar to TT, coach Galina, and he is on his way to success.
Wow!
I hope it is not the case between TT and her students. I cannot imagine TT slapping or kicking Mao or Shizuka and I don't think she would
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- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
Wow!
I hope it is not the case between TT and her students. I cannot imagine TT slapping or kicking Mao or Shizuka and I don't think she would
I don't think she would kick or slap her students. If I recall correctly, in My Sergei, Katja described Tarasova as a tough but nice coach. Almost passive aggressive--if they were too tired, Tarasova would say, "Oh, I totally understand. You must be dead on your feet. But before we go, can you show me that double axel..." And she'd coach them on each component of the double axel, and about half a dozen double axels later, it's three hours since they first asked to go home.
I think like most great coaches, she knows how to push each student differently, as each student has different buttons. Sasha, on the other hand, probably wanted it HER way, and wouldn't let her buttons pushed. There's no tape on youtube, but after the free skate at 2003 nationals, you can see Sasha sulking after she just blew the title (as usual), and Tat is urging her to congratulate Michelle. She did it (like a kid forced to kiss an aunt you rarely see), then Tat congratulated Michelle sincerely.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
When I was a kid I saw a feature on training of the Japanese national women's volleyball team, and what you describe doesn't surprise me a bit: the coach slammed the ball over and over at one woman who was clearly dazed. My dad, who was watching with me, told me that is what it takes to be a world-class athlete in a team sport, which scared the daylights out of me.
That doesn't mean that I think Tarasova laid a finger on any of her athletes. I think her wrath and disapproval would be enough.
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