The splitting event of Yu/Jin - a summary

[Violet Bliss]

I don't know if the video of the interview has been posted. There are clips of Yu/Zhang practising. And Peng/Jin in the background :sad21:

Thank you for linking this video with interviews with those involved in this Pairs re-matching.

Zhao explains the necessity of the shuffling to realize the potentials of the 2 Pairs who have been slipping with the main goal of raising the standard for the next two Olympics. He had been pondering it for 6 months and this difficult decision had to be made and has gone through necessary trials and validation.

For the coaches, such a decision was not easy. For the athletes, as members of the nation, it's their appropriate duty to put the whole ahead. Still, to make such a sudden major change, Xu initially felt kind of at a loss as to what to do.

Xu says she was stunned for about 5 seconds with her mind going blank when she was told of the switch. Everything was unknown and so different from her original ambitions and plans. She felt very confused and lost.

It has been two weeks since the return from choreographing of programs in Canada and she and Zhang have been adjusting their throw techniques which will take some time but they are making very fast progress.

Xu says at first she had to accept the change but then decided for better or worse, it was a change and a new beginning so she would give it a try. But as she checked fans' reactions and opinions, her mood kept slipping. Once the new programs had been made, however, her feelings changed and she began to regain confidence about the future. Coming back, she decided to work hard and to realize her potential as urged by the coach.

The reporter explains that though Chinese fans are used to long partnerships like S/Z's, changing partners is not uncommon internationally, citing the success of S/M within 2 years of their new partnership. Although the answer to whether or not this is a right decision will only be told with time and results, there have already been positive feedbacks at the early stage. Zhao says that they spent over 20 days in Canada and the two best known choreographers in the world both gave very high validation on the changes since the partner switch. He explains there were great pressures on Peng and the benefits of teaming with Jin include the reduction of the pressures, her developing a new style with Jin, easier communication between them, as well as much higher confidence in her jumps, and X/Z too benefit from the new partnership. They have all made evident adjustments in their techniques and choreo. The two top choreographers both understood this change.

The coming season will demand hard work from the two new teams, starting from zero ISU points but they will surely work extra diligently for the 2022 Olympic dreams.

Xu: I'm afraid to think so far ahead for such a great dream and goal though I do want to realize my potential.

Zhang: With the Olympics to be taking place at home, as an athlete, regardless of past participations, if there is a chance and the ability to compete and to honour your country, it is something you should and must do.

eta. I watched and wrote this post about the video in the wee hours. I just re-watched it and have edited it with more details and made little changes when words I couldn't hear properly before became clear.

 

[Spiral]

I observed the facts and stated them, i.e. you judged people involved based on negative conjectures and preconceptions. E.g.

She did, against what's considered normal and certainly against her and everybody's wish. This is fact. Hao started having injuries and she grew some more during his recovery period. The problem remained and the only resolution was for her to retire. I would quit too in her situation.

So it's fact because some people posted so?

Unlike you, I read Chinese and know that this is not true. He brings her up when he talks to reporters to reminisce the connection they had, that she knew exactly what he thought just with a glance from him and that her hand was always there when he reached for it. He said this was something he and Peng still needed time to develop. He said the same thing in a few reports I happened to read, even the ones linked here and selectively translated for you and others they wanted to influence. In one, in talking about his recent injury, he brought up Dan because with her, the long time partner, they could easily pick it up after a month of not training whereas with Peng they had to start all over again. Not P.R. in response to her twitter. BTW, show me her twitter you mentioned.

Supporting evidences, please, and not some other people's say so and conjectures. Show me anything from Dan that says she was made to quit, or something authentic that can be reasonably deduced that it was indeed what happened. She sounded quite happy when interviewed at the time as well as in the few videos and articles I happened to come across later. She was an extremely driven athlete and touched many people with her courage at the Olympics. She and Hao had a very successful career together that nobody can deny and he especially never put her down or complained against her. But she grew in her twenties, something totally unexpected and undesired by anybody. She could not be a Pairs skater any more. She remains supportive of Hao as far as I know from reading her own words and reports of her attending his competitions. Check your facts or at least back up your counter claims. A person's height is not something that can be hidden.

Here is supporting evidence regarding Dan Zhang’s involuntary retirement (the underlining is mine).

As a Chinese figure skating fan, I want to write a simple summary about the splitting event of the Chinese pair Xiaoyu Yu and Yang Jin to share what we saw and experienced recently….

Supplementary materials:

I. The history of Chinese pair skating

Bo Luan/Bin Yao is the first Chinese pair who attended the winter Olympics in 1984. Both of them are coaches for pair skating in China now….
There are lots of back alley news about the relationship between Luan and Yao. It is said that Yao does not like Luan’s students Sui/Han and Yu/Jin.

II. Changing partner event four years ago
Four years ago, the partner of Hao Zhang changed from Dan Zhang to Cheng Peng. The official news was that Dan Zhang wanted to retire therefore Hao Zhang needed a new partner. But there were also grapevines saying that Hao Zhang was unsatisfied with Dan Zhang about her height. And Dan was forced to retire after Hao and Yao selected the new partner Cheng Peng together.
Cheng Peng was training with Tianci Zhang in Bo Luan’s group before she was selected to be Hao Zhang’s partner. Tianci Zhang retired from figure skating after Peng’s leaving.

Thanks for the summary!...
I restrain from commenting on Zhang anymore. I did before and some people jumped me and gave me lectures on morals. I just want to direct your attention to the girls—Dan Zhang who didn't voluntarily retire (go check her social media in 2012. She didn't delete anything); Peng who respects and admires her partner but now gets abandoned (again, not saying by him); Yu who is forced to leave her long-time partner she gets along so well with. There's a pattern here--the girls are always to blame. It's called pair skating for a reason. It's the work of both skaters. Why girls get all the blame? Imagine Yu's pressure going forward. I bet one day her height will be cited as a culprit if things aren't panning out.
I've been a member of this forum for many years but only started posting recently after this scandal broke out. I always know shady things in Chinese sports happen all the time, but this time I feel like I'm in the middle of it. We used to be so proud of Chinese pair skating, but now we're totally heart-broken by it.
If you don't like conspiracy theories, if you like "innocent until proven guilty", if you happen to have a high bar of "reasonable doubt", I respect that. Just focus on the facts we know for sure--a beautiful promising pair is separated under false pretence. The girl is thrust into the arms of a man against her will. The man's former partner gets abandoned. The girl's former partner gets labelled as "the weaker male partner of the team". This "weaker" team is told that they're not going to worlds next year no matter what, before the next season even starts, before they even skate together in public. Does that sound right to you?!

I’m sorry it doesn’t say specifically Twitter, just social media. I don’t know Chinese, but since you do, you can check her social media for 2012.

The fact that somebody tells reporters that he feels so and so doesn’t necessarily mean that it is so. For instance, it is quite clear to me that the interview you translated above is pure PR from start to finish. If you’re taking it at face value, I’m afraid we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

And while, of course, nobody can deny that Hao Zhang and Dan Zhang had a successful partnership, and anyone would need time to get used to a new partner, it doesn’t mean of and by itself that she retired voluntarily.

Krunchii, thank you for further clarifications. It’s much appreciated! I’m very glad Yang Jin didn’t blame his female partners for their changing physics and recognized that some things are just beyond anyone’s control. It’s doubly sad then that when, after a streak of ill-luck, he was finally paired with someone who stayed compatible, and they enjoyed great success, they were forced to split.

 

[Krunchii]

Well the thing is Zhang Dan was nearly 170cm after she grew, there's no partner tall enough and if she had continued injuries probably would have forced both of the Zhangs to retire. More like her own body forced her to retire. Not saying Yao Bin and Zhang Hao didn't force her because I don't know so it's not my part to speculate and present it as fact but the partnerships never could have continued anyway if they supported her.

 

[karne]

...are we actually expected to believe that a woman kept growing taller at the age of 26?

Um, no. That does not happen. Most women are done by 16, some 18, but growing at 26? Were scientists alerted to this biological anomaly?

 

[4everchan]

that's not true. It is exceptional but some people can grow until mid-twenties. Also, we don't actually know for sure how old Dan was

...are we actually expected to believe that a woman kept growing taller at the age of 26?

Um, no. That does not happen. Most women are done by 16, some 18, but growing at 26? Were scientists alerted to this biological anomaly?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Here is supporting evidence regarding Dan Zhang’s involuntary retirement (the underlining is mine).

I’m sorry it doesn’t say specifically Twitter, just social media. I don’t know Chinese, but since you do, you can check her social media for 2012.

The fact that somebody tells reporters that he feels so and so doesn’t necessarily mean that it is so. For instance, it is quite clear to me that the interview you translated above is pure PR from start to finish. If you’re taking it at face value, I’m afraid we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

And while, of course, nobody can deny that Hao Zhang and Dan Zhang had a successful partnership, and anyone would need time to get used to a new partner, it doesn’t mean of and by itself that she retired voluntarily.

So your supporting evidence is a couple of posts citing grapevine speculation, as admitted in the post itself, and some story telling, while dismissing everything Hao and Dan themselves tell the public. I can't fathom what kind of PR it is for Zhang Hao to bring up his former partner.

I read and translated from the same articles linked by Zhang bashers, who substituted their vilifying editorial as summaries of the articles for those who could not read Chinese. One links a report for credibility, but these posters ignored what was reported and only wrote their postulations and conjectures to present as facts. Have you been following history as it happened? To me you choose to believe unreliable sources with agenda years after the facts, while being totally unable to verify any of the stories.

I am not a particularly ardent fan of Zhang Hao but find it hard to put up with blatant slanders and vilification, especially to people with language barrier and little access to true information. But I guess if you are already so convinced of an organization and even a nation being evil, it is convenient to get in the bashing party and help establishing "facts".

eta: Though I like what I see from Y/J, I have not been following them particularly, the Pair being quite new in the Senior circuit. However, when you, though it doesn't matter who, started on a negative rant on Jin based on a translated sentence, I cleared the language issue involved because I wouldn't want to have another person's misunderstood character perpetuated, as it's so easy to happen.

Also, I don't want to register at Weibo to read Dan's posts from 2012. I read her interviews back then, and I brought some to this forum and the discussion was genial. Her current messages are happy as a bride to be and she links recent media appearance to discuss her Olympic experience and her life in retirement from skating. I wish her happiness and all the best in life. She is full of admirable character and achievements.

 

[Spiral]

So your supporting evidence is a couple of posts citing grapevine speculation, as admitted in the post itself, and some story telling, while dismissing everything Hao and Dan themselves tell the public. I can't fathom what kind of PR it is for Zhang Hao to bring up his former partner.

Also, I don't want to register at Weibo to read Dan's posts from 2012. I read her interviews back then, and I brought some to this forum and the discussion was genial. Her current messages are happy as a bride to be and she links recent media appearance to discuss her Olympic experience and her life in retirement from skating. I wish her happiness and all the best in life. She is full of admirable character and achievements.

My evidence is the poster’s referring to Dan’s posts which you don’t want to register to read. It’s excellent PR for anybody to praise one’s former partner, and even more so if said partner was unhappy about having been forced to retire. It’s always good PR to present oneself as appreciative and sympathetic.

If Dan is indeed happy now, I’m very glad for her. At the same time, I’m very sad for Yu and Jin, whom I did follow and admire, as well as for their coach Bo Luan.

 

[Violet Bliss]

My evidence is the poster’s referring to Dan’s posts which you don’t want to register to read. It’s excellent PR for anybody to praise one’s former partner, and even more so if said partner was unhappy about having been forced to retire. It’s always good PR to present oneself as appreciative and sympathetic.

If Dan is indeed happy now, I’m very glad for her. At the same time, I’m very sad for Yu and Jin, whom I did follow and admire, as well as for their coach Bo Luan.

It's your evidence, so have you registered to read them yourself? How about bringing them here for me and everybody?

It's your choice to believe or discredit and dismiss anybody totally, but at least I gave you the chance with truthful translations of their words and reports rather than selective and twisted interpretation spiced up with malicious additives.

Look, I never say how wonderful a person Zhang is, because I don't know that. But I do know what are untrue and fabricated that have been said and those I address and refute.

From my experience and observations, most apparent hatred and character assassinations are motivated by love for someone else. Some fans are overzealous and protective, eager to demonstrate their love and support by attacking the perceived or created enemies of their objects of affection. I just wish they understand it's not necessary and is in fact counter productive and may hurt the ones they love and try to help in such a negative fashion.

 

[Spiral]

It's your evidence, so have you registered to read them yourself? How about bringing them here for me and everybody?

It's your choice to believe or discredit and dismiss anybody totally, but at least I gave you the chance with truthful translations of their words and reports rather than selective and twisted interpretation spiced up with malicious additives.

Look, I never say how wonderful a person Zhang is, because I don't know that. But I do know what are untrue and fabricated that have been said and those I address and refute.

From my experience and observations, most apparent hatred and character assassinations are motivated by love for someone else. Some fans are overzealous and protective, eager to demonstrate their love and support by attacking the perceived or created enemies of their objects of affection. I just wish they understand it's not necessary and is in fact counter productive and may hurt the ones they love and try to help in such a negative fashion.

I couldn’t read them myself because I don’t know Chinese, so why would I register? However, I don’t imagine why somebody would point to such messages if they didn’t exist, considering that a lot of people in the world do know Chinese and could go and check. That’s why I do believe that poster. Just pure logic.

For the same reason I do believe that your translations are truthful, because it would be easy to check for anybody who knows Chinese. What I don’t believe in is the sincerity of what was said in that TV report by basically everybody quoted. I think we all realize that the skaters involved (Yu and Jin) would not be at liberty to speak publicly against their federation. Nor did they slip in the past season. They got into the GPF again, where they showed the highest result of Chinese pairs. They have also won the bronze at the Four Continents Championship. At least these facts are not open to interpretation. Only Sui/Han have demonstrated higher results during the season, among the Chinese pairs. Yet Yu/Jin didn’t get to go to Worlds. I think this constitutes unfair treatment by the their Federation.

Like you, I’m also saddened when fans of particular skaters develop hatred of their rivals, and I can assure you that this has never happened to me. At any given time I have liked many skaters in every discipline, and even when I especially admired a particular skater, I never felt any negative feelings for the other skaters in the same discipline. The only times I’ve felt negative feeling towards somebody has been caused by their behavior. In fact, like most fs fans, I admired Shen and Zhao and their coach who brought Chinese pair skating from nowhere to Worlds and Olympics pedestals, and, believe me, it causes me considerable pain now to be disappointed in Hongbo Zhao and Bin Yao.

I hope we understand each other now and can agree to disagree on our points of difference.

 

[formersk8ter]

From my experience and observations, most apparent hatred and character assassinations are motivated by love for someone else. Some fans are overzealous and protective, eager to demonstrate their love and support by attacking the perceived or created enemies of their objects of affection.

This x 1,000. Probably the most factual statement in this entire thread.