Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

[eiriene]

Here's the thing....

I don't think you guys are giving Mirai enough time. Yes, she's working with Tom Z. on the technical issues, but I think (and you seem to agree) that a good bit of her issues are mental/psychological. Even if she is working with a sports psychiatrist, which she may be, therapy for psychological issues can take MONTHS to sink in properly. She may know what she needs to do, but simply be unable to implement it properly. If you draw a parallel to people who have had therapy for other psychological conditions, such as depression or anxiety, then you may be looking at a timeline of a year or more before she's in peak mental fighting shape.

Granted, her body may not last as long as she needs, but she's only 21, and there's still time. I agree with whoever upthread said to give her 2014/2015 as a learning/retooling season.

 

[chuckm]

Ashley Wagner may have gotten lots of URs at the Japan Open, but she doesn't get nearly as many URs in her regular competition skates as Mirai does. Ashley also has been far more successful in international competition over the last quadrennial than Mirai has.

 

[Tavi...]

Here's the thing....

I don't think you guys are giving Mirai enough time. Yes, she's working with Tom Z. on the technical issues, but I think (and you seem to agree) that a good bit of her issues are mental/psychological. Even if she is working with a sports psychiatrist, which she may be, therapy for psychological issues can take MONTHS to sink in properly. She may know what she needs to do, but simply be unable to implement it properly. If you draw a parallel to people who have had therapy for other psychological conditions, such as depression or anxiety, then you may be looking at a timeline of a year or I more before she's in peak mental fighting shape.

Granted, her body may not last as long as she needs, but she's only 21, and there'sMirau still time. I agree with whoever upthread said to give her 2014/2015 as a learning/retooling season.

I have no idea whether Mirai will or will not overcome her personal demons & revamp her technique successfully. I hope she does, because she has the potential to be a lovely skater. But in her FS here, she simply didn't do enough to hold my interest, & as a result, harsh as it may seem, whether or not she was struggling for good reason just didn't matter to me. By comparison, although Jason fell several times & his programs were not stellar, he still gave everything he had and delivered enough to engage me. Sadly, Mirai seemed lost in herself rather than connected to the audience or engaged in her performance.

 

[JayW]

Sadly, I saw Mirai is facing the same struggles as Mao did. However, Mao has huge endorsements and a large die-hard fan base.
Wish her all the best luck.

 

[flutzy13]

Here's the thing....

I don't think you guys are giving Mirai enough time. Yes, she's working with Tom Z. on the technical issues, but I think (and you seem to agree) that a good bit of her issues are mental/psychological. Even if she is working with a sports psychiatrist, which she may be, therapy for psychological issues can take MONTHS to sink in properly. She may know what she needs to do, but simply be unable to implement it properly. If you draw a parallel to people who have had therapy for other psychological conditions, such as depression or anxiety, then you may be looking at a timeline of a year or more before she's in peak mental fighting shape.

Granted, her body may not last as long as she needs, but she's only 21, and there's still time. I agree with whoever upthread said to give her 2014/2015 as a learning/retooling season.

The thing is I don't think there's time for her from a political standpoint. USFS isn't eager to have the Olympic selection controversy dredged up again and again. Her only chance at making the world team was to come out guns blazing and impress on the GP this season. If she has a lackluster fall and then shows up prepared at Nationals, I think she'll be held down by the tech caller and on PCS to avoid another world team selection controversy. Just my opinion of course.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I don't think you guys are giving Mirai enough time. Yes, she's working with Tom Z. on the technical issues, but I think (and you seem to agree) that a good bit of her issues are mental/psychological. Even if she is working with a sports psychiatrist, which she may be, therapy for psychological issues can take MONTHS to sink in properly. She may know what she needs to do, but simply be unable to implement it properly. If you draw a parallel to people who have had therapy for other psychological conditions, such as depression or anxiety, then you may be looking at a timeline of a year or more before she's in peak mental fighting shape.

Mirai would be a junior or senior in college had she followed that path after a couple of years of mediocre results. This is going to be her 5th season of mediocre results unless things change drastically. No sports psychologist should be telling their client she needs a YEAR OR MORE of therapy and incur travel and training costs in hopes of having great results. I don't think the majority of the posters understand the financial commitment that the sport entails, or perhaps fail to appreciate that a high five-figure annual cost is a huge burden on even an upper-middle class family. None of these people on her payroll are being real with her and at the end of the day only Mirai will suffer.

 

[Barb]

Mirai would be a junior or senior in college had she followed that path after a couple of years of mediocre results. This is going to be her 5th season of mediocre results unless things change drastically. No sports psychologist should be telling their client she needs a YEAR OR MORE of therapy and incur travel and training costs in hopes of having great results. I don't think the majority of the posters understand the financial commitment that the sport entails, or perhaps fail to appreciate that a high five-figure annual cost is a huge burden on even an upper-middle class family. None of these people on her payroll are being real with her and at the end of the day only Mirai will suffer.

Caroline Zhang is still competing, and really there are many figure skaters competing that are not in the podiums, just 3 can win a medal. I dont think they are losers or crazy people. There is a mexican couple in ice dance, the sibilings Maekawa-Moreno I think they are training with Marina Zueva (I assume it is costly), they are not even close to get good results or medals in international competitions but they look so happy skating, so if Mirai is happy is ok, she doesnt look very happy when she is competing but you dont need to have a permanent smile to be happy. If she is not enjoying figure skating anymore I agree she has many other possibilities in her life.

 

[fallingsk8er]

I predict that Mirai will improve on her short program at her next event by landing the the opening combo and improve on her long program by only getting 1 or 2 under rotation calls.
I also predict that calls for her retirement will be replaced by "Mirai is in the hunt for another medal at nationals." (...it happens every year)

 

[chuckm]

Sadly, I saw Mirai is facing the same struggles as Mao did. However, Mao has huge endorsements and a large die-hard fan base.
Wish her all the best luck.

Mao never, ever skated with an expressionless face and body. Even when she struggled with her jumps, Mao never gave up on the performance.

 

[tulosai]

Mirai would be a junior or senior in college had she followed that path after a couple of years of mediocre results. This is going to be her 5th season of mediocre results unless things change drastically. No sports psychologist should be telling their client she needs a YEAR OR MORE of therapy and incur travel and training costs in hopes of having great results. I don't think the majority of the posters understand the financial commitment that the sport entails, or perhaps fail to appreciate that a high five-figure annual cost is a huge burden on even an upper-middle class family. None of these people on her payroll are being real with her and at the end of the day only Mirai will suffer.

I generally respect you as a poster and so please know I sincerely do mean this as respectfully as possible, but I think you're going a little far in some of what you're saying, in this post and others. Do you know Mirai personally? Do you know the people who are 'on her payroll'? How can you possibly know what they are saying to her or what she is thinking? How can you possibly know if she is seeing or has seen a sports psychologist and for how long? Even if she is seeing one how can you possibly know what they are saying to her.

I understand that it is your opinion that Mirai is done forever and it would be in her best interest to stop competing. It's your right to think that. But making all these ugly assumptions is not appropriate in my opinion. As long as she can some way to fund it, she is entitled to keep skating for as long as she can get assignments. I also think the insinuation that the people close to her are somehow brainwashing her or else why would she possibly continue is an offensive one.

If you do know her or her psychologist or her coach or someone else close to her, please do let us know.

 

[chuckm]

I predict that Mirai will improve on her short program at her next event by landing the the opening combo and improve on her long program by only getting 1 or 2 under rotation calls.
I also predict that calls for her retirement will be replaced by "Mirai is in the hunt for another medal at nationals." (...it happens every year)

Even if she did improve in this way, it might not put her in line for a medal. The URs would probably come on her 3/3 and 2a+3t attempts, which she would need to challenge for a medal against Pogorilaya, Sotnikova and Park, all of whom have those jumps solidly in their repertoire.

And then there is her flat presentation, which won't stand up against the top ladies she faces at CoR. Mirai doesn't seem to be able to land her jumps and display presentation skills at the same time, at least not on competition ice.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I generally respect you as a poster and so please know I sincerely do mean this as respectfully as possible, but I think you're going a little far in some of what you're saying, in this post and others. Do you know Mirai personally? Do you know the people who are 'on her payroll'? How can you possibly know what they are saying to her or what she is thinking? How can you possibly know if she is seeing or has seen a sports psychologist and for how long? Even if she is seeing one how can you possibly know what they are saying to her.

I understand that it is your opinion that Mirai is done forever and it would be in her best interest to stop competing. It's your right to think that. But making all these ugly assumptions is not appropriate in my opinion. As long as she can some way to fund it, she is entitled to keep skating for as long as she can get assignments. I also think the insinuation that the people close to her are somehow brainwashing her or else why would she possibly continue is an offensive one.

If you do know her or her psychologist or her coach or someone else close to her, please do let us know.

The post I responded to was the first I have heard of her having a sports psychologist. I didn't think she did actually.

As far as coaches and choreographers, they may love what they do but it is a job. Brainwash is a strong term that I didn't use, but they are looking out for themselves because if they coach/choreograph/make costumes for Mirai they are earning income. I don't think there is any controversy in suggesting they put their own interests ahead of their client's.

From what I see, she doesn't enjoy competing. I base that on how she looks when she performs her competitive programs with no expression and no enthusiasm. It is an opinion and one that many of her fans do not share. I think it is perfectly valid to discuss whether she could be doing something else, like college or exclusively shows, because she obviously has the discipline to become one of the best in the world at something. That discipline can be applied to succeed at many other things in life that could make her happier. Again, if opportunity cost or financial cost weren't a factor, I'd say go for it. But I think it would be wise to at least weigh her alternatives without influence from those who profit off of her.

 

[fallingsk8er]

Even if she did improve in this way, it might not put her in line for a medal. The URs would probably come on her 3/3 and 2a+3t attempts, which she would need to challenge for a medal against Pogorilaya, Sotnikova and Park, all of whom have those jumps solidly in their repertoire.

And then there is her flat presentation, which won't stand up against the top ladies she faces at CoR. Mirai doesn't seem to be able to land her jumps and display presentation skills at the same time, at least not on competition ice.

You're right, probably no medal at CoR, but an improved and respectable showing on the GP circuit will set her up nicely for nationals where she could be in the hunt for a medal. I just hope she doesnt skate around with a 'pasted on' grin and call it "presentation". I'd rather see the serious 'work-horse' look she's giving off now.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

You're right, probably no medal at CoR, but an improved and respectable showing on the GP circuit will set her up nicely for nationals where she could be in the hunt for a medal. I just hope she doesnt skate around with a 'pasted on' grin and call it "presentation". I'd rather see the serious 'work-horse' look she's giving off now.

I'm actually thinking Karen Chen may pass her at Nationals. That's no slight on Mirai. Karen is pretty good.

 

[Pippuripihvi]

I listened to Kurt Browning and PJ Kwong podcast when they discussed Skate America and closer to the end they discussed the reasons for saying goodbye to figure skating and quitting and why some skaters just don't retire even if watching them skate make people cringe because off all the devastated performances that skater has. And Kurt told that if there is drive inside you and you enjoy it, then it's good. But if the only reason you are skating is that you can't think of anything else to do and you think this is gonna be it, then you got to make it happen, you can't wait for it to happen. I have a feeling that Kurt was referring to Nagasu because he told that he had someone in his mind but he wouldn't tell HER name. Although it might as well be Ashley Wagner.

Edit: a link
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/kurt-browning-pj-kwong-recap-skate-america-1.2815103

 

[b-man]

I am pretty sure Mirai is not seeing a sports psychologist, though it would be helpful if she did so, IMHO.

She of course finished 3rd at 2014 Nats, did the entire SOI season, and was on the runner up team at JO, which also pays well, I think $60K for the four person team, (don't know if that is shared with the US Fed). This has been probably one of her better years from prizes and exhibitions. All of these provide revenue for her to continue skating, and she is staying with a host family in Colorado Springs, which cuts expenses considerably. i know Mirai has a lot of pride in her skating, and the failures like the SA short are embarassing and frustrating for her, especially when she was skating loose and confident in practice, and even in the 5 minute warmup before the short Yet just a few minutes later, at the start of the short, she was clearly feeling pressure and was very "tight."

Many are predicting Mirai has no shot at a medal at CoR, but remember, last yeat she had a 9th? place finish at NHK and everyone counted her out. Yet she came back in a few weeks to take a bronze at CoR. Pogo and Park are by no means unbeatable, and I have no idea what condition Sot is in.

 

[noskates]

Kind of hard to believe that Kurt would be talking about Ashley because she has had success in the past couple of years - just didn't perform well at Nationals this year.

 

[Pippuripihvi]

Kind of hard to believe that Kurt would be talking about Ashley because she has had success in the past couple of years - just didn't perform well at Nationals this year.

My initial thought was that he meant Mirai, but he also talked of how a lot of people expect certain skaters to retire, and that made me think of Ashley because of all this retirement talk. Don't get me wrong - I support both of them in their dreams.

 

[Icey]

Well...yes he had 2 problematic axels, but he did enough other things right to earn a medal. In the context of Mirai - or Ashley - it might be relevant to say that he got a lot of under rotations in Nebelhorn, & only one at Skate America. Or that he tanked his jumps but kept on performing.

But with respect to Mirai: I sat in the arena & watched her. Her dress was gorgeous & she looked beautiful. People were thrilled that she was there & gave her a great welcome. Yet when she began to skate, she was just lifeless. Her face was dead. She didn't tell a story & she wasn't involved with the music. I couldn't judge the rotation on her jumps but I started tuning out because I was bored. Take a look at those Nick Verreos photos of her. Her face is blank & she looks depressed, or like she's sleepwalking. It's sad - I saw her live a few months ago in Stars on Ice & she was lovely, musical & one of my favorites in the show.

Well, the character she is portraying is depressed and life worn and about to commit suicide. Don't see that her affect is way off with this particular piece.

 

[Icey]

Kind of hard to believe that Kurt would be talking about Ashley because she has had success in the past couple of years - just didn't perform well at Nationals this year.

Abbott would be a better candidate for such a conversation.