Mirai Nagasu's future prospects

[Pippuripihvi]

Abbott would be a better candidate for such a conversation.

There are so many candidates among men (it could also refer to Gachinsky), but Kurt said "HER name"

 

[ice coverage]

I generally respect you as a poster and so please know I sincerely do mean this as respectfully as possible, but I think you're going a little far in some of what you're saying, in this post and others. Do you know Mirai personally? Do you know the people who are 'on her payroll'? How can you possibly know what they are saying to her or what she is thinking? How can you possibly know if she is seeing or has seen a sports psychologist and for how long? Even if she is seeing one how can you possibly know what they are saying to her.

I understand that it is your opinion that Mirai is done forever and it would be in her best interest to stop competing. It's your right to think that. But making all these ugly assumptions is not appropriate in my opinion. As long as she can some way to fund it, she is entitled to keep skating for as long as she can get assignments. I also think the insinuation that the people close to her are somehow brainwashing her or else why would she possibly continue is an offensive one.

If you do know her or her psychologist or her coach or someone else close to her, please do let us know.

Thx, tulosai. Agree that drivingmissdaisy's assumptions are presumptuous and offensive.

For example, it would be just as ridiculous for me to make an assumption -- only for the sake of argument -- that purely out of self-interest, Kori Ade and Rohene Ward have brainwashed Jason Brown and his family into believing that Jason would never amount to anything without her coaching and his choreography.
(I believe no such thing about Kori and Rohene; just drawing a hypothetical analogy.)

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

For example, it would be just as ridiculous for me to make an assumption -- only for the sake of argument -- that purely out of self-interest, Kori Ade and Rohene Ward have brainwashed Jason Brown and his family into believing that Jason would never amount to anything without her coaching and his choreography.

That's a bad analogy. All I'm saying is that the people who make money off Mirai are going to be the last people to tell her that she is not up to par with the best in the world. It's perfectly reasonable and not offensive. Why would a coach cut off a paying relationship if he was getting along with a student?

 

[MIM]

I listened to Kurt Browning and PJ Kwong podcast when they discussed Skate America and closer to the end they discussed the reasons for saying goodbye to figure skating and quitting and why some skaters just don't retire even if watching them skate make people cringe because off all the devastated performances that skater has. And Kurt told that if there is drive inside you and you enjoy it, then it's good. But if the only reason you are skating is that you can't think of anything else to do and you think this is gonna be it, then you got to make it happen, you can't wait for it to happen. I have a feeling that Kurt was referring to Nagasu because he told that he had someone in his mind but he wouldn't tell HER name. Although it might as well be Ashley Wagner.

Edit: a link
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/figureskating/kurt-browning-pj-kwong-recap-skate-america-1.2815103

They did not spend much time to recap the ladies event after all.

I watched Marai's program again. Even though her jumps were under rotated, the edges and flow out of them were great! I liked her flip, loop, and salchow. Right after the performance, although She did a clean performance, she did not look satisfied with what she just did. I saw that a sign of hunger there! Actually, I was happy to see her being motivated, and wanting more!!! Mirai, just prove that we all are wrong and make Kurt eat crow!!

 

[Ophelia]

I'm not completely up to speed on Nagasu's history, so can someone explain what caused Nagasu to end up where she is now since 2010? Coaching problems? Personal problems? I re-watched her 2010 Olympics and World performances, and I saw an entirely different skater. She was vivacious, charismatic, sparkling, and as cute as a button back then. Commentators were calling her the future of ladies' skating. The Nagasu I see now is a shadow of her former vibrant self.

 

[ice coverage]

That's a bad analogy. All I'm saying is that the people who make money off Mirai are going to be the last people to tell her that she is not up to par with the best in the world. It's perfectly reasonable and not offensive. Why would a coach cut off a paying relationship if he was getting along with a student?

It is absolutely offensive to the coaches and other professionals who work with Mirai.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

It is absolutely offensive to the coaches and other professionals who work with Mirai.

What in particular is offensive? That coaching is a job? You should look into the financial arrangement Frank Carroll requires of his students before asserting that everyone is in it strictly for the love of skating.

 

[kwanatic]

I'm not completely up to speed on Nagasu's history, so can someone explain what caused Nagasu to end up where she is now since 2010? Coaching problems? Personal problems? I re-watched her 2010 Olympics and World performances, and I saw an entirely different skater. She was vivacious, charismatic, sparkling, and as cute as a button back then. Commentators were calling her the future of ladies' skating. The Nagasu I see now is a shadow of her former vibrant self.

Since 2010 Mirai has dealt with growth issues, injuries, coaching changes and more.

She had a stress fracture (I believe) summer of 2010 which kept her off of the ice for about 6-weeks and put her behind in her training. She never quite got her feet under her that year and ended up finishing 3rd at nationals. The upside was she went to 4CC and had a great FS and ended up placing 3rd behind Miki and Mao. That next year she filled out a little more body-wise and the problems started. She was getting even more UR calls, her technical content regressed...it just wasn't good. From then on it just seemed like she was depressed whenever she took the ice. Both of her programs were crap that year. Nationals wasn't good for her and she finished outside of the top 4 (I think she was 7th). Around that time she was still with Frank but she was commuting to train (I think it was 2 hours going and coming). That seemed to put a strain on her skating.

Mirai and Frank amicably parted ways and Mirai started training with Amy Evidente. That year her SP had a little more of that Mirai flair everyone remembered from 2010 and she upped her content to include a 3T-3T. Again, she got a late start to her season but had two decent skates at NHK and placed 3rd. At nationals that year she skated a decent SP that scored well, but she was sick. I remember how bad her cough sounded when she was sitting in the K&C. She just didn't have the stamina for the FS and she ended up placing 7th again. Last season she started off badly but got a little stronger by Cup of Russia. There was zero "performance" from her but the jumps were all solid. She'd been working with Mura's coach in Japan for a few weeks and it really made a difference. (Anybody think she should go back to him for a while?) After COR she and Evidente parted ways and Mirai went into nationals without a coach. From there you know what happened: she skated well but was left off of the team, made the switch to Tom Z and here we are.

That sparkle and shine she had in 2010 seemed to be a youthful thing. It kinda disappeared after 2010 when the pressure of being the favorite kicked in. Everyone was touting her as the next big thing (very similarly to the way people are expecting great things from Gracie right now and she has yet to win anything) and I think that pressure was more than she could handle. That sparkle she had showed up a few times over the past 4 years but overall, it disappeared.

Mirai has all of those performance weapons (charisma, sparkle, personality, ability to pull in the crowd) but she can't seem to display those qualities while simultaneously focusing on her jumps. I do think if she were a better performer her scores wouldn't suffer as much. It's possible to splat on the ice and still maintain the performance (Sasha Cohen and Adelina come to mind). Even if they made/make mistakes, which they frequently did/do, the performance very rarely dropped.

Sell. Sell. Sell!! It's a crucial lesson Mirai has not learned over the course of the last 4 years. Given what Mura did with Mirai's jumps in that short span of time last season, I think she should start training with him part-time if she can swing it. Tom Z is bringing out some good qualities in Mirai (more speed, more fight) but the essential problems with her skating (URs, lack of energy/performance) are still there. I have no idea what's going to happen with her. I pray she'll get it together but I no longer expect her to...:disapp:

 

[ice coverage]

What in particular is offensive? That coaching is a job? You should look into the financial arrangement Frank Carroll requires of his students before asserting that everyone is in it strictly for the love of skating.

I am aware of Carroll's arrangements. Regardless, I believe that Carroll cares about his students as human beings as well as sources of income.

And I believe that the same is true of Tom Z.

And I do not believe that they have any agenda to exploit their students.

End of discussion, as far as I am concerned.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I believe that Carroll cares about his students as human beings as well as sources of income. And I believe that the same is true of Tom Z.

I fully agree. I don't think these are mutually exclusive.

 

[karne]

I'm not Evil Z's biggest fan - as well you all know. But saying he'd be encouraging Mirai to continue just for financial gain? Huh? It doesn't make sense. He doesn't need her in that regard. He'd get more out of Max's week than Mirai's. And he has a lot of other students too.

He doesn't need her in the political sense either; he's got a recent National Champion/reigning National medallist on his books, he's already got a rep for jumps, and plenty of rep for other things that will never change, regardless. He's given partial credit for turning out skaters like Jeremy and Ryan and Joshua.

We're not talking about a no-name coach here who might try that trick. We're talking about a coach of champions, one of the more recognised coaches in the US.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I'm not Evil Z's biggest fan - as well you all know. But saying he'd be encouraging Mirai to continue just for financial gain?

That's a very simplistic view to say someone has only one motivation to behave a certain way. I am saying that it can be one of several factors. But stop being so naive to pretend like someone is evil to be a least partially motivated to take on a student to earn more income. If that weren't the case he would coach her free of charge. Coaching is his job. It may also be a passion, but it is a job first.

 

[ice coverage]

That's a very simplistic view to say someone has only one motivation to behave a certain way. I am saying that it can be one of several factors. But stop being so naive to pretend like someone is evil to be a least partially motivated to take on a student to earn more income. If that weren't the case he would coach her free of charge. Coaching is his job. It may also be a passion, but it is a job first.

You're misunderstanding karne.
She has referred to him as Evil Z repeatedly in the past -- for reasons that have nothing to do with his coaching fees and nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Sandpiper]

Just watched her LP at Skate America (yes, I'm waay late to the SkAm LPs...). And I must say, while the jumps were there, URs aside (I actually don't find the URs any worse than Jason's fallen axel or Gracie's 3-3, which didn't get called on)... the performance was nowhere. No expression, no feeling, no connection with either audience or music. The whole thing just seemed listless. I must agree with Kwanatic: Sell, sell, sell. Whether your performance is flawless or mistake-ridden, you must never forget it's a performance.

I'm cool with her continuing, of course. But I understand why some posters feel like Mirai doesn't seem to enjoy skating anymore.

 

[b-man]

Since 2010 Mirai has dealt with growth issues, injuries, coaching changes and more.

Mirai and Frank amicably parted ways and Mirai started training with Amy Evidente. That year her SP had a little more of that Mirai flair everyone remembered from 2010 and she upped her content to include a 3T-3T. Again, she got a late start to her season but had two decent skates at NHK and placed 3rd. At nationals that year she skated a decent SP that scored well, but she was sick.

Entire post: Good summary. Just one addition. In the 2012-13 season, the primary coach was Wendy Olson, with Amy Evidente an assistant. Wendy was a coach recommended by FC, when Mirai no longer wanted to do the commute 2 hours to Palm Springs, and her parents didn't want her to move. The 2013 Nationals in Omaha was the Nationals where Mirai was sick in the FS and finished seventh overall.

 

[mrrice]

What in particular is offensive? That coaching is a job? You should look into the financial arrangement Frank Carroll requires of his students before asserting that everyone is in it strictly for the love of skating.

As someone who's been coaching dance for 20 years, it is certainly offensive to suggest that any credible coach who takes his Students in front of a World level panel of Judges would ever do it just for the money. Elite level coaches can, and have, dumped skaters when they feel they can no longer help them move forward.

I would hope that if Mirai thought, even in the far reaches of her mind that Tom was coaching her for the money. She would drop him like a hot potato before hitting twitter and telling everyone in skating what a creep and fraud he was. Mirai is not a baby anymore and she is certainly capable of walking up to Tom and saying "Look, I came to you to fix my jumps, they're not fixed so, I'm outta here." This happens all the time in several sports.

This is about Mirai, and the sooner Tom tells her she needs to get her act together or retire, the better.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

As someone who's been coaching dance for 20 years, it is certainly offensive to suggest that any credible coach who takes his Students in front of a World level panel of Judges would ever do it just for the money.

I have said repeatedly that they are not doing ONLY for the money. The point is that a coach, or a choreographer, or a costume designer receives a financial benefit from a skater continuing. Because of that, I don't think they can be fully objective as far as telling a skater that they aren't going to get better. You may think that money plays no factor in any elite coach/choreographer/designer's behavior ever, so if you do that is your opinion. You don't have to get offended because other people don't agree.

All of this boils down to me seeing a woman on the ice who doesn't look like she wants to be out there. (I'm not the only one who thinks so, but others disagree.) As a result, I wonder why she's out there when it looks like she doesn't enjoy competing. That's what this is all about.

 

[Tavi...]

Well, the character she is portraying is depressed and life worn and about to commit suicide. Don't see that her affect is way off with this particular piece.

Umm...sorry, but it's pretty clear you don't know the opera. Butterfly is not depressed when she kills herself, and she is never, ever flat or lacking in affect. She dies for passion with passion, because she can no longer lead an honorable life, and her music reflects that.

 

[Mista Ekko]

It's possible to splat on the ice and still maintain the performance (Sasha Cohen and Adelina come to mind). Even if they made/make mistakes, which they frequently did/do, the performance very rarely dropped.

 

[mrrice]

Money may play a factor with Coaches but it does not play a factor with the Judges. I speak from experience as a Coach and Judge. Reputation and Resume' are far more important to elite level Coaches and Choreographers. Can you imagine being Lori Nichol and hearing a Judge say to you. "Lori, that wasn't your best work."

Judges are catty at times......The last thing Lori wants to hear from a Judge is "Lori honey, are you really so broke that you choreographed that number for a paycheck?"

"Girrrrllll, I can lend you 5 bucks if you're that desperate!!!" It sounds crazy but I hear things like this all the time.

Coaches will often call a Judge and ask who's choreography they enjoyed the most last season. "Anyone but that Lori Nichol, I don't know what's happened to her but, did you see so and so?" Tom and Lori both know how Judges behave and their reputations are far more important than the money.