State of US Ladies in skating III: 2014-15 Season

[yyyskate]

To make you feel a little better, I have stopped watching TSL a long ago

 

[ice coverage]

I looked it up and I am not sure I took it the same way as you.

Yes they talk smack, but they also said they only talk about those with relevance and talent. So I kinda took it that they were saying that they both did in fact have talent, and were relevant. Sorta a you know you have made it when you are the subject of gossip type thing. I took it to mean that to TSL it is better to have catty comments made than have no comments made.

I agree with Stitch's interpretation. The exact wording of the tweet was, "We discuss those who are relevant and possess talent."

I know that TSL can be very snarky, but in this case, I think their snarkiness is along the lines of, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

 

[flutzy13]

I would think Dave is the one driving the Twitter feed...at least I hope so. Given the criticism and struggle Jenny had in her own career, I would hope she would stay out of it.

That is, she should feel free to provide constructive feedback, but not throw such pithy insults like the one she mentioned.

They definitely both tweet from the account and Jenny has made her fair share of snarky comments. For a time, they signed the tweets but they've stopped doing that.

Honestly TSL is fun, snarky commentary for fans, not skaters. If Gracie and Alexa were upset enough to respond to the TSL twitter, it's probably in their best interest not to follow/read/listen. They have much bigger things to worry about after SA then what Dave and Jenny (who I think are great but are nothing more than a niche skating site) think of them.

 

[Mrs. P]

They definitely both tweet from the account and Jenny has made her fair share of snarky comments. For a time, they signed the tweets but they've stopped doing that.

Honestly TSL is fun, snarky commentary for fans, not skaters. If Gracie and Alexa were upset enough to respond to the TSL twitter, it's probably in their best interest not to follow/read/listen. They have much bigger things to worry about after SA then what Dave and Jenny (who I think are great but are nothing more than a niche skating site) think of them

given what Jenny has written in the past about how hurtful comments affected her, I'd like to think she could exhibit more discretion in her comments. Whether she chooses to or not, of course is up to her.

That said, I agree with your point. The internet's a peanut gallery and you got to find a healthy way to deal with comments, bad and good. I feel both of them expend a lot of unnecessary energy on such things.

 

[aftertherain]

I perosnally have a love hate relationship with the skating lesson and on this occaision i really hope that Gracie and Alexa/Chris figuht on and prove jenny kirk and dave lease wrong. I would love to see them eat their words for once.

Neither of them have ever said S/K and Gracie can't make it--they just expect change (but say it in an arguably iffy way). And I think they've eaten their words before.

 

[Scovies]

Honestly TSL is fun, snarky commentary for fans, not skaters..

Exactly. TSL is basically a snarky, knowledgeable skating message board in video blog form. I remember during Ashley Wagner's interview with them, she said something along the lines of, "You're harsh and can kinda be jerks sometimes, but at least you know what you're talking about." Full disclosure: I completely agree with them regarding Gracie (i.e., she's crazy-talented but her programs/packaging aren't working at all, and I'm not sure about her ability to compete under pressure), so that probably makes me more likely to defend them on this.

 

[MK's Winter]

Exactly. TSL is basically a snarky, knowledgeable skating message board in video blog form. I remember during Ashley Wagner's interview with them, she said something along the lines of, "You're harsh and can kinda be jerks sometimes, but at least you know what you're talking about." Full disclosure: I completely agree with them regarding Gracie (i.e., she's crazy-talented but her programs/packaging aren't working at all, and I'm not sure about her ability to compete under pressure), so that probably makes me more likely to defend them on this.

I agree with them as well. TSL can definitely be snarky but it does come from a place of knowledge. Jenny as a competitive skater and even Dave as an adult skater(he throws shade at himself at times). Jenny's written blogs are insightful. I realize they are not everyone's cup of tea but I love the fact that they do what they can to keep skating relevant.

 

[OS]

Kind of feeling sorry for the American leading ladies. I am reminded of the Alissa days. Every time after one bad competition... OH NOoooo the sky is falling!!!!

I'd easily give Gracie at least 3 consecutive bad competitions before counting her out. I still think she is one of the more naturally gifted skater with a wow factor among the current US staples of ladies. So fine... 'old fashioned' artistry isn't exactly gelling with her 21st century mojo, but there are still plenty of other areas she used to do really well that can be 'embellished' to compensate for these so called weaknesses. I wonder if her team neglected on improving her strenghth in order to 'fix' these weaknesses. I wish the power that be can stop mold her into some American Kwanbee because it sure feels like it with the package assigned to her since going to Frank. Some refocusing and reprioritizing needed? I hate to say this, but consider Frank is suppose to be the 'know-it-all' mentor for the US national team, he hasn't exactly a good track record these days has he? Other than WC successes with Kwan (who missed out on OGMs!) and Lysacek(who talked and talked about a come back but never did), didn't he used to coach Kostner during one of her 'downer' days, and of course... Mirai...ummm Gracie... ummm Denis... uhmm (okay it was the flu this time round.. but he was also a little lucky at Sochi.) are they really any better/stronger mentally?

I wouldn't count Wagner out at this point either, she may not be the best in one aspect, but she is at least above average in most things (need hard 3/3s). Unfortunately Wagner's reputation took severe beating by her 'one poor skate' at US Nationals. Due to USFSA's shortsightedness it did damage her international standing among the judges and some figure skating fans. It seems to have made many unsympathetic to her skating - her under marking at Sochi confirmed what I thought may happen when federation politics interfere with the natural laws of the sport. Federation arrogance to inflate anyone of their choosing through quick fixes/irregularity/artificiality and be d@mned with the consequences. To my mind till this day Wagner is still trying to regain public/judges favours, she is between a rock and hard place. I hope this won't ends up happening to Gold, it is hardly their fault.

Many hype up Polina due her consistent high TES. Although she does have youth on her side and her Russian heritage may have helped (frankly it is really pathetic and wrong this should matter at all in ANY sport), but personally, I find her still a bit rough, gangly and awkward. Although she doe tick all the boxes, how she carry out her choreography is with little or no emotional depth or interpretation. Maybe she will prove me completely wrong this year as she matures.

Finally, I really think Karen Chen is one of the most well rounded exciting young talent out there. Huge potential for the US by PyeongChang2018. I adore her musicality and artistic ambitions and I actually liked some of her artwork! Super rare!! However, she seems to still going through hard times recovering from her ankle injuries last season. Growth spurts are unpredictable at age 15 and I wonder how it may affect her height/shape, as they willl certainly affect her lines/presentation/athleticism competing with the other bigger girls. I read on her mum's facebook that 1.5 weeks before she competed at US Nationals in January (still recovering from her ankle injuries, withdraw from JGPF), she were only able to do 2A and some easy double jumps at the time, no triples. That she could not even do the 2loop, flip or the lutz, but she worked card to try to compete with everyone who trained for months, that she is very proud of her, and we saw how that SP turned out. To be frank, Karen could really do with some better luck on her side to ride out this puberty/injury recovery phase. Being nurtured carefully and not pushing too hard for podium too soon? Although I'd love to see her making the top 5 at US nationals certainly.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Many hype up Polina due her consistent high TES. Although she does have youth on her side and her Russian heritage may have helped (frankly it is really pathetic and wrong this should matter at all in ANY sport), but personally, I find her still a bit rough, gangly and awkward. Although she doe tick all the boxes, how she carry out her choreography is with little or no emotional depth or interpretation. Maybe she will prove me completely wrong this year as she matures.

I don't think it's at all a given that Polina will continue to get high TES scores. Most of the good women who struggle at 18 could do all the jumps at 15. Long term Polina might be a good bet but I think Gracie will prove to be more solid the next season or two.

 

[Jammers]

I just wish Gracie had Sam Cesario's confidence. If she did, Gracie would be a worldbeater.

Agreed. Sam doesn't seem to let the nerves get to her though she doesn't have the pressure some of the other ladies have. But her lack of skating skills are always going to make her a second tier skater.

 

[mrrice]

Agreed. Sam doesn't seem to let the nerves get to her though she doesn't have the pressure some of the other ladies have. But her lack of skating skills are always going to make her a second tier skater.

I agree about the lack of pressure on Sam. She basically has nothing to lose and not nearly as much pressure as Gracie has, to deliver at every event. It's really all about pressure and expectation for Gracie these days and I hope Frank can help her deal with it like Michelle seemed to. Of course, everyone is different but with Gracie, she just needs to relax and trust her immense talent.

I hate to say this but, Frank may not be the best fit for her. It's early so maybe I'll change my mind as the season progresses.

 

[AlexaD]

I don't know about Gracie getting it fully together...she certainly has the talent...but she has to be able to conquer the nerves.

 

[R.D.]

There's only one other person who said Gracie would win Worlds. And I'd be curious to see if they still maintained their steadfast opinion of Gold being the best thing ever. I said at the end of last season that it was uncertain if Gold is for sure the #1 US woman and Skate America has supported that. It's not like Gold gave convincing performances at Worlds and it should come as no surprise if Polina surpasses her and ends up being the sole American woman in a GPF filled with Russians. But there's still hope for Gracie if she gets it together for her next event but Skate America was her shot to solidify a GPF spot and she was easily outskated. In fact, I thought Cesario should have beat her.

Edmunds has not competed yet, though...I have trouble annointing her #1 when there are no hard data points to support that move, but that's just me.

Having said that, if the above happened, it would not surprise me.

 

[flying camel]

What lack of skating skills is Sam missing? Is it the spins?

 

[Krunchii]

What lack of skating skills is Sam missing? Is it the spins?

Spins don't really fall under skating skills but they could be improved, when we talk about her SS being lacking it's her speed and transitions

 

[chuckm]

Speed is relative. Sam isn't as fast as Gracie, but she's faster than Mirai, and a lot more expressive. She had the 4th highest PCS scores, including Skating Skills and Transitions, after the medalwinners.

 

[Tutto]

I am not a fan of Gracie but beginning to feel sorry for the girl, the pressure must be immence on her to finally deliver & justify all the hype showered on her up to this point. And indeed if she could not win Skate America, a home event, what chances she has elsewhere? The interesting thing I noticed that posters on a Russian forum I read regularly are MORE sympathetic to Gracie, she is much admired for her skating skills, her 'deportment' of the quenn, her dress sense. Not many good words I read recently here about Gracie
I myself feel that all she needs is a program which suits her 200%. Also I get an impression from her interviews that she is in too much awe of Carroll to the point that she can't or wouldn't express her opinion. Julia immediately comes to mind with her choices of programs Eteri was initially against (Sabre dance, SL) I cant see Gracie doing same thing.
I can understand that Americans are disappointed by that since 2006 (Oh Sasha!)there were no world/oly medals from ladies but I still think Gracie has everything to get to the top given time and less pressure.

 

[SimplyAFan]

It really is not fair that whoever wins US nationals is almost cursed to be seen as a let down if they don't medal at worlds. The USA has talent, but there are so many that are better. Keeping three spots is a fair goal for USA skaters. Ill be proud of any skaters that have a hand in that this year medal or not. It is too bad that so many people will assume that the lack of medal is the American's fault, rather than just meaning others were/are better. Having three ladies in the top ten, even with no medal is still something to be proud of. I don't see them as a let down. I also don't get that excited that they will medal though.

YES. I couldn't agree more. I thought it was great to see 3 us ladies in the top 10 at worlds. Last time that happened was 2007 or 2006.

 

[Jammers]

There was to much pressure on Gracie from the time she won Juniors at Nationals in 2012. She was a inexperienced talented 16 year old who wasn't ready to do the things people wanted from her and she never got to grow and develop as a skater because she was being proclaimed as the One who was going to bring back the glory of US Ladies internationally. Ashley never had to deal with that kind of pressure at that age she was in the shadow of Rachael and Mirai and could just keep improving under the radar.

 

[SimplyAFan]

I'm super indecisive so I can't really pick one at this point of the season. I like qualities of different skaters. Gracie has natural technical talent, I particularly like her spins (when she doesn't fall out of them of course). Ashley's performance ability. Samantha, her fierceness. Polina seems very talented and i just enjoy watching her skate. I love Hannah Miller's choreography and how she sells her programs. Ashley Cain seems really determined to have a breakout season, and her SP is really different this year which I really like.

To me, it's too early in the season. At nationals, I'd really love to see Ashley C and Hannah make a splash.