2014 Rostelecom Cup Men's Short Program 11/14

[balletanddancefan]

None of these things were showcased in Max or Jason's performances on this particular day (or evening, where they were). I wondered if Max had actually forgotten his choreography--that's how lost he looked in between the quad and the axel. As for Jason, his performance was sadly marred by his mistakes--including on elements he usually nails (no 'tano, messed up spin, ect.).

Again, I like both American boys more than I like Voronov. But to suggest they were better than him in this particular competition is incomprehensible to me.

sandpiper, I agree, I too think my favorite Jason (and Max) made lot of mistakes... but I think the dferences between the scores were tooo much! And what about Brezina? It was a joke? And btw: Jason and Max are the younghest (expect th 12. Thakashvili): the have the future!

 

[Sandpiper]

Because the original poster wasn't Russian bashing. She/he was simply pointing out that there are distinct differences between a balletic style (which actually is European, not specifically Russian) and a modern style (and modern dance did originate in the States, as did tap and jazz and hip hop). I am not familiar with any Russian modern dance companies, but believe me, I have the ticket stubs from enough American modern dance companies to fill a small chest.

If balletanddancefan isn't Russian-bashing (despite explicitly saying to dislike all Russian style, regardless of execution, and suggesting that Max/Jason were comparable to Voronov in these particular SPs), then Gallavich is so far from American-bashing that she might as well as be on another planet.

Btw, I completely don't care for modern dance, but if Voronov messed up his jumps/looked confused about his choreography and Max/Jason skated cleanly, I wouldn't dream of putting Voronov in front.

 

[ice coverage]

I faint from the preciousness

Eh, guys. Can we just agree to disagree and have a snowball fight? You all need to go outside!!!

Okay, it's not snowing. It's just cold. But get out in the fresh cold air. Fresh air into the lungs AAAHHHHHH...

:agree: Thanks, Mrs. P.

The skaters are putting us to shame. If the guys who placed 3rd, 5th, 6th, and 9th all can sit down and have a friendly post-SP dinner with smiles all around, we can agree to disagree in a respectful way.

 

[Mathman]

(if you're trying to evoke a swan, you might wanna leave out the A-spin ),…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47609000/jpg/_47609843_cnv00101.jpg

 

[silverfoxes]

If balletanddancefan isn't Russian-bashing (despite explicitly saying to dislike all Russian style, regardless of execution, and suggesting that Max/Jason were comparable to Voronov in these particular SPs), then Gallavich is so far from American-bashing that she might as well as be on another planet.

Btw, I completely don't care for modern dance, but if Voronov messed up his jumps/looked confused about his choreography and Max/Jason skated cleanly, I wouldn't dream of putting Voronov in front.

Thanks...I'm still not sure what I did or said to set that person off. :scratch:

I generally like Jason, btw, just not this SP. Or this performance. And I've nothing against Max either. Just for the record.

 

[balletanddancefan]

If balletanddancefan isn't Russian-bashing (despite explicitly saying to dislike all Russian style, regardless of execution, and suggesting that Max/Jason were comparable to Voronov in these particular SPs), then Gallavich is so far from American-bashing that she might as well as be on another planet.

Btw, I completely don't care for modern dance, but if Voronov messed up his jumps/looked confused about his choreography and Max/Jason skated cleanly, I wouldn't dream of putting Voronov in front.

OKOK, my journey was very short in the world of the figure skating. I returne to the dance. If Jason exibished in Europe I going to watch him. And I never see in the future skating competitions!

 

[Sandpiper]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47609000/jpg/_47609843_cnv00101.jpg

Thank you, Mathman. Were you trying to top the "hip-shaking Yuzuru" image?

sandpiper, I agree, I too think my favorite Jason (and Max) made lot of mistakes... but I think the dferences between the scores were tooo much! And what about Brezina? It was a joke? And btw: Jason and Max are the younghest (expect th 12. Thakashvili): the have the future!

Considering what Max and Jason put out there, Voronov was indeed in a different league on this evening. I think the scores are fair; this isn't a case of two equally clean programs getting vastly different scores.

What I do expect, however, is that if Voronov bombs the free, his marks there should be just as poor as tonight's marks were good. But that's a conversation for tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to Jason's free, which is one of my favourites this season (I'm not a fan of his SP this year).

Max/Jason being young aren't reasons to give them better scores.

Are you saying Brezina was overscored or underscored? If it's the former, I agree.

 

[Icey]

Jason's program fell flat today. As the British commentator said "the magic was missing". Jason benefitted here from being held up with a too high imo pcs score. I think this benefit is coming to an end soon if he doesn't up the technical ante. And for me, his programs are beginning to suffer from a "sameness". Technically, he has to be perfect with what he does do to compete with the big boys and that is happening less and less.

I'm amazed at the difficulty of Javier's program. With that program he is in a league of his own.

 

[Icey]

I try to explain with my bad english: the style, the dance, the sophisticated movements, postures, the sincerity, the strength of the movements, the strength that comes from within and not from without, elasticity

Both Jason and Max seemed to struggle with their programs today. Voronov made everything (and much of it was difficult) look effortless.

 

[Tavi...]

Good acting is in the eye of the beholder. Voronov skated much better than Jason today. Voronov did not emote, represent or in any way establish a link to Danse Macabre. Jason on the other hand has consistently represented the Chicago blues idiom in Juke, and represented it well. To dismiss it as cutesy and smiles shows a lack of knowledge of this idiom. Congrats to Voronov, however, on an excellent skate.

Jason is my favorite skater, but I have to disagree with you here. In my opinion, the audience should not be required to know anything about the 1940s blues dance idiom in order to appreciate the program - a performance should stand on its own merits. And honestly, I don't think it does. It almost seems as if Rohene chose this piece because it's "seminal" and Little Walter was an "innovator," not because the music itself really inspired him to create. Whether or not Jason's performance is suffering right now because of the music/ choreography or the pressure he's under this year, for me, at least, this program isn't working.

As an aside, I grew up in Chicago listening to the blues, but of a much later era. Rightly or wrongly, Juke bears very little resemblance to what I think of as "Chicago blues," and in fact, A Question of U, though not strictly blues, is far closer to it - perhaps one reason I love that program so much.

 

[balletanddancefan]

Yes, she seem to have more problem with Voronov's style (or lack of, I guess) not so much because he's Russian.

And I do feel it's unfair that just cause Jason didn't have a great technical performance here that suddenly his style has been reduced to smiles and suspenders. He still DID perform, for heavens sake.

But again, De gustibus non est disputandum.

Best of luck to everyone in the free!




Well I guess, Jason should be thankful that you weren't actually on the judges panel.

hanks! I with my bad English didn't describe so well!

 

[Mrs. P]

Judging by Kori Ade's message, it sounds like Team Jason had a really tough week with Shep Goldberg passing away.

As she said, "It's a marathon, not a sprint." So it's too early to read into this poor performance (arguably his poorest ever as a senior) as some sort of trend. '

I'm just hoping he clears his mind and goes for it tomorrow and skate the way he knows he can.

Also regarding the program --- I know a lot of people loved Prince's program (I did too!), but even that program took some time to gel. He did use it for two seasons. Rohene isn't one to give programs that click right away.

 

[auser]

Jason's program fell flat today. As the British commentator said "the magic was missing". Jason benefitted here from being held up with a too high imo pcs score. I think this benefit is coming to an end soon if he doesn't up the technical ante. And for me, his programs are beginning to suffer from a "sameness". Technically, he has to be perfect with what he does do to compete with the big boys and that is happening less and less.

I'm amazed at the difficulty of Javier's program. With that program he is in a league of his own.

Universal Sports TV commentator Peter Carruthers was so enthusiastic about Javi's program he sang "Whoa, Black Betty did a quad. Whoa, Black Betty did a quad" afterwards

 

[chloepoco]

I could watch Kozuka skating all day, even with no jumps. He's just so

 

[Icey]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/47609000/jpg/_47609843_cnv00101.jpg

Isn't that a duck ? lmao

 

[shiroKJ]

Jason's program fell flat today. As the British commentator said "the magic was missing". Jason benefitted here from being held up with a too high imo pcs score. I think this benefit is coming to an end soon if he doesn't up the technical ante. And for me, his programs are beginning to suffer from a "sameness". Technically, he has to be perfect with what he does do to compete with the big boys and that is happening less and less.

I'm amazed at the difficulty of Javier's program. With that program he is in a league of his own.

That was the strategy his team followed last year and all things considered, it had good results; which is probably why they stuck with it this year again. But it seems they'll learn from this season's showing, it is not enough. Even when he goes clean, he can only land in the top 10 (or top 5 in GP) when the other top skaters falter and that kind of mindset will force Jason to remind stagnant. I know people say he is young, but he needs a quad yesterday. The up and coming skaters are a force to be reckoned with and if Jason doesn't step it up now, he'll get lost in the mix within the next 2 seasons or so. He still has a bit of time but 20 isn't that young anymore and his team needs to realize that.

And to Javier's SP

 

[Matt K]

Jason's program fell flat today. As the British commentator said "the magic was missing". Jason benefitted here from being held up with a too high imo pcs score. I think this benefit is coming to an end soon if he doesn't up the technical ante. And for me, his programs are beginning to suffer from a "sameness". Technically, he has to be perfect with what he does do to compete with the big boys and that is happening less and less.

I'm amazed at the difficulty of Javier's program. With that program he is in a league of his own.

Also, Javier was definitely in a league of his own.

You know, I have always wanted quads for men's, and I still do, because I don't care to see ice dancing in men's competition, but I wonder how much of a PCS dip quadless skaters like Brown would take if they fail at the quad.

(((((Takahiko and Voronov PCS)))))))

I want quads and fair judging.

 

[Tavi...]

WeakAnkles, what's that Latin phase again?

Jason's style is not for everyone, that is clear. But I wouldn't reduce his performance to smiling and suspenders, either. The judges didn't. FWIW, Jason's score would have been lower had he not kept up the level performance.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think his PCS was higher at both Nebelhorn & SA by a fair amount, no?

 

[balletanddancefan]

Jason is my favorite skater, but I have to disagree with you here. In my opinion, the audience should not be required to know anything about the 1940s blues dance idiom in order to appreciate the program - a performance should stand on its own merits. And honestly, I don't think it does. It almost seems as if Rohene chose this piece because it's "seminal" and Little Walter was an "innovator," not because the music itself really inspired him to create. Whether or not Jason's performance is suffering right now because of the music/ choreography or the pressure he's under this year, for me, at least, this program isn't working.

As an aside, I grew up in Chicago listening to the blues, but of a much later era. Rightly or wrongly, Juke bears very little resemblance to what I think of as "Chicago blues," and in fact, A Question of U, though not strictly blues, is far closer to it - perhaps one reason I love that program so much.

I understand what you say! I think the choreography of the SP creates problems (not for me knowledge of the history of music and dance of the 20th century, but for others). I think Rohene is very good Rohene coeographer but this song has been done to the Chicago "show" public and not for the jury (I appreciate the diversity and experimentation but too me is too commerciale). In the end I find it a beautiful choreography much more interesting than a "classic Russian style" ... but the jury and the public in Russia is another story

 

[Mrs. P]

That was the strategy his team followed last year and all things considered, it had good results; which is probably why they stuck with it this year again. But it seems they'll learn from this season's showing, it is not enough. Even when he goes clean, he can only land in the top 10 (or top 5 in GP) when the other top skaters falter and that kind of mindset will force Jason to remind stagnant. I know people say he is young, but he needs a quad yesterday. The up and coming skaters are a force to be reckoned with and if Jason doesn't step it up now, he'll get lost in the mix within the next 2 seasons or so. He still has a bit of time but 20 isn't that young anymore and his team needs to realize that.

And to Javier's SP

He has a silver from his first GP and he won his first senior international competition. Even with a super subpar program for him, he is still with in 5 points from the podium.

This SP segment was probably one of the few times most of his competition was clean with their quads (Brezina being the exception) AND he skated poorly (again for him). But even then, it's not they're all scoring 90+ because they made other errors.

Again, Kori has it right. It's a marathon, not a sprint. One subpar SP isn't going to matter much by 2018 if he gets the quad when HE is ready to put it out there and its consistent and all that stuff.

And also there's still the long program?