Use of the word "Package" to describe a skater's on-ice attributes

[R.D.]

Use of the word "Package" to describe a skater's on-ice attributes

This is a very recent off-shoot of the US ladies thread, but to keep that thread on topic I want to continue with the phenomenon I brought up:

It seems that posters, folks in the skating community and even many of the skaters themselves like to use the word "package" or "packaging" to describe the elemental attributes of a skater, and the phrase "complete package" to describe skaters that have both good technical prowess and solid audience relation skills (presentation).

I personally do not use this term because I am not fond of it, but that's just me. Instead, I usually go for "on-ice persona" which essentially describes the same thing in a more "real"/less figurative manner...or better yet, just going for the direct approach of "good at both tech and pres".

Thoughts?

 

[noskates]

To me the word "package" is used in concert with "the whole....." meaning a skater presents technical expertise, smooth presentation, musicality and personality on the ice. Quite a few of the elite skaters have many of these attributes but very few have all of them. So if I say X has "the whole package" I mean that all of the attributes are there. "On-ice persona" means to me the skater's personality and presentation. I think, for example, that Adam Rippon has a wonderful on-ice persona but his technical ability is somewhat lacking in competition. A skater like Patrick Chan, again in my opinion, is the whole package. And in his time, Kurt Browning was the whole package. Yuna Kim and Michelle Kwan represent the ladies in my mind. Not sure if that's what you're getting at but those are my thoughts/

 

[gkelly]

I think this term started to gain currency in the 1980s, maybe late 70s, when "packaging" skaters with professional choreography, costuming, music editing, etc., started to become more important in competitive skating instead of the amateur/homemade aesthetic.

I understand why you're not fond of it.

 

[lefeury]

When a skater talks about "the Package", they are describing what they want their programs to be presented as. If you get a theme, pick a certain song with a certain music cut, costumes reflecting that image, choreography that represents that theme, and hopefully choreography that sticks to the theme and highlights musical accents or story and lastly, can pack it with all of the technical product you can present in the best places to get the best technical score and overall presentation.
Musicians do the same thing when they want to impress. When posters use the phrase they may be using "packaging" with another concept altogether.

 

[ice coverage]

This is a very recent off-shoot of the US ladies thread, but to keep that thread on topic I want to continue with the phenomenon I brought up:

It seems that posters, folks in the skating community and even many of the skaters themselves like to use the word "package" or "packaging" to describe the elemental attributes of a skater, and the phrase "complete package" to describe skaters that have both good technical prowess and solid audience relation skills (presentation).

I personally do not use this term because I am not fond of it, but that's just me. Instead, I usually go for "on-ice persona" which essentially describes the same thing in a more "real"/less figurative manner...or better yet, just going for the direct approach of "good at both tech and pres".

Thoughts?

Highlighted "elemental attributes" in your post, b/c want to ask you what it means?? I really have no idea. Presumably not related to technical elements. But I don't know what you do mean in this context.

To me the word "package" is used in concert with "the whole....." meaning a skater presents technical expertise, smooth presentation, musicality and personality on the ice. Quite a few of the elite skaters have many of these attributes but very few have all of them. So if I say X has "the whole package" I mean that all of the attributes are there. "On-ice persona" means to me the skater's personality and presentation. I think, for example, that Adam Rippon has a wonderful on-ice persona but his technical ability is somewhat lacking in competition. A skater like Patrick Chan, again in my opinion, is the whole package. And in his time, Kurt Browning was the whole package. Yuna Kim and Michelle Kwan represent the ladies in my mind. Not sure if that's what you're getting at but those are my thoughts/

Agree with noskates. :agree:
And thus I think it is a big mistake to lump the word "packaging" under the same umbrella as "package/total package/complete package."

"Packaging" doesn't bother me one bit, but it is (just barely) more understandable to me why it might rub some people the wrong way.

OTOH, package/total package/complete package are completely benign, IMO.

And as I said in the other thread, all these terms are hardly exclusive to discussion of skaters.

For example, I'm pretty sure that teachers/advisors speak of "packaging" high school students to make them attractive to college admission officers.
And Student X is the "total package" b/c she gets straight As, captains varsity teams in three sports, and stars in the school theater productions, etc.

I'm puzzled that some perceive the terms to be politically incorrect when applied to skaters. (And I am usually not one to cry PC.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

R.I.P., Olympia. Wish you were here to contribute to this thread.

 

[LRK]

I don't know that I have a whole lot to add to what I said here:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...14-15-Season&p=1038830&viewfull=1#post1038830

Again, to me personally, the word "the whole package" conveys an air of the skater being an artificial product. ("Packaging" as well.) I know that is not what people mean when they use it, I also know that the meaning is meant to be benign. I also dislike it because it is a label; "the Whole Package", "the Artist", "the Just a Jumper" - I prefer to see skaters as individuals, and not just stick a "it says it all" label on them and have done. To me words and expressions have... flavour. I cannot describe it in any other way. And I don't personally like the taste of these. But each to their own, and I certainly do not mean to try to persuade anyone to forego their favourite expressions.

 

[SoundtracksOnIce]

I read in some old memoirs that skaters used to really not go for cohesion between their programs and costumes. Scott Hamilton & Torvill & Dean talked about choosing random pieces of music to go together and they and Brian Orser all mention making the conscious jump to what Orser called "Rotal Concept".

 

[LiamForeman]

Well, I don't think a thing about someone saying 'the total package'. I grew up with pageant queens, and that's what they strove for. As for skating, you don't think Kwan was given the Carroll Total Package after Birmingham Worlds in 95. Totally transformed her, and for my taste turned her into a major star. I can't watch Salome without awe, and it was due to Frank's 'packaging'. It's a good term, and most would I think TRY for it. That jumper from the US, her name escapes me, huge jumps, no style, NEEDS packaging. She could win Nationals if she had the right package. It shows to me a level of understanding and realizing your strengths. It can get out of control though. But I think both John Nicks and Frank Carroll have a knack for 'packaging' their skaters in the best sense of the word. You can always tell the skaters that take from those two if you go to an event, even down to practice outfits. I'm all for it. It shows a level of responsibility and commitment. That's my take.

 

[karne]

The cold meds and the humidity have fried my brain. It did not go to dresses, music and choreography when it thought of "package".

:hopelessness:

 

[R.D.]

If you look at the article posted in the Wagner critics thread, you can see another example of its use -

“Mao [Asada] and Yuna Kim, to me, they were something absolutely incredible, and they had this total package,” [Wagner] said. “They had this individual persona. I think that the difference between that era and the one that we’re in right now is all of these Russian girls right now, who knows, maybe as time goes on they’ll start to stand out individually a bit more, but everyone kind of sees them as one big chunk of Russian girls skating. Mao and Yuna really were able to create their own individual legacy. I think that’s kind of the difference between where we are now and back then.”

Whatever that means anyway.

 

[Blades of Passion]

"Complete Package" = someone has a commanding, pleasing style while also consistently displaying a high technical standard.

 

[Scovies]

I tend to think of the terms "total package" and "packaging" as two completely different things.

IMO, "the total package," as it relates to skaters, refers to someone who is good at every aspect of the sport (or, rather, has no glaring deficiencies). Good programs, good jumps, good spins, good presentation. The best example I can think of is Alexei Yagudin. Michelle Kwan, too. In gymnastics, I always thought 1996 Olympic champ Lilia Podkopayeva was a great example of it -- she was very artistic, had gorgeous flexibility and a stunning toepoint, but also tons of difficulty and power.

I tend to think of "packaging" as referring to the persona that a skater is adopting (or being forced into by his/her coach), or attempting to portray to the judges/audience. The music, programs, and costumes are all part of it, and if it's well-done, it should highlight a skater's best attributes and hide any weaknesses. Take Irina Slutskaya's short program in Torino -- the pants, powerful music, her monster jumps -- it all worked very convincingly for her. I remember Sandra Bezic saying, "She's picked the perfect vehicle!" in response to that program. Ashley Wager tends to favor programs and costumes that project strength and maturity, and maybe a bit of sexiness. Alissa Czisny used classy, graceful programs and projected and Old Hollywood demeanor on ice (remember her Audrey Hepburn LP?)

In short: the "total package" is Michelle Kwan's ability to do a clean, difficult program and perform the crap out of it. "Packaging" is her music choice, choreography, and costumes showing off those abilities to her best potential.

 

[FSGMT]

Well, I don't think a thing about someone saying 'the total package'. I grew up with pageant queens, and that's what they strove for. As for skating, you don't think Kwan was given the Carroll Total Package after Birmingham Worlds in 95. Totally transformed her, and for my taste turned her into a major star. I can't watch Salome without awe, and it was due to Frank's 'packaging'. It's a good term, and most would I think TRY for it. That jumper from the US, her name escapes me, huge jumps, no style, NEEDS packaging. She could win Nationals if she had the right package. It shows to me a level of understanding and realizing your strengths. It can get out of control though. But I think both John Nicks and Frank Carroll have a knack for 'packaging' their skaters in the best sense of the word. You can always tell the skaters that take from those two if you go to an event, even down to practice outfits. I'm all for it. It shows a level of responsibility and commitment. That's my take.

I agree: there's nothing wrong with "packaging", it's just that top-level coaches know what the international judges want better than low-level ones (obviously), so they're able to select the appropriate music/layout/costume/choreography etc. They're basically giving to the judges what the judges want, to maximize the scores. A good example is Gracie with Frank: it is obvious that Frank+Lori are changing her style completely (maybe too much), and (wether we like it or not) it's working, basing on the PCS she receives... And that should be the purpose of switching coaches

 

[Alex D]

This is a very recent off-shoot of the US ladies thread, but to keep that thread on topic I want to continue with the phenomenon I brought up:

It seems that posters, folks in the skating community and even many of the skaters themselves like to use the word "package" or "packaging" to describe the elemental attributes of a skater, and the phrase "complete package" to describe skaters that have both good technical prowess and solid audience relation skills (presentation).

I personally do not use this term because I am not fond of it, but that's just me. Instead, I usually go for "on-ice persona" which essentially describes the same thing in a more "real"/less figurative manner...or better yet, just going for the direct approach of "good at both tech and pres".

Thoughts?

Total package reminds me of Lex Luger, so ya not really using it in my reports or columns. I like to use attitude, expression or body language. Besides that grace, elegance are my most used words to descrive artistry

 

[noskates]

Good thoughts from everybody. But I'm still a little confuzzled why someone would think the term was a negative.

 

[ice coverage]

Good thoughts from everybody. But I'm still a little confuzzled why someone would think the term was a negative.

(1) :agree: I too remain confuzzled.

(2) Off topic: I am tempted to start a thread about my new favorite mash-up: confuzzled. Thx for introducing it to me, noskates. (Guess I have been living under a rock again.)

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Is it bad that I thought this thread was about skaters' packages?

 

[samson]

The cold meds and the humidity have fried my brain. It did not go to dresses, music and choreography when it thought of "package".

:hopelessness:

10 point for Gryffindor. It brings a whole new meaning to "She's got the complete package" and I love it.

 

[lyndichee]

I think this is just making a big deal out of it. "Packaging" is used a term to describe their complete image and often used in marketing. Marketing a skater is so important because it helps with their PCS, their popularity and ability to get endorsements. The term "package" is used as an inclusive term, not something to make the skater seem more artificial.

 

[karne]

Is it bad that I thought this thread was about skaters' packages?

Thank goodness someone else went there too!

We could make a thread, but I don't think it would be particularly family-friendly.