Russian Ladies Team for EC 2015: facts, speculations and drama

[charmblade]

Just to add some further complications, what happens if the top 3 at Nationals includes some of the ladies not age-eligible for Senior Worlds (like Serafima or Evgenia)? All this discussion is focusing on the placements on the podium, but what if Evgenia gets the silver medal for example? She can't go to Worlds so then is only the winner guaranteed a spot on the team and then the federation gets to choose the other two spots? Or does the decision get based on the placements of the ladies after removing any of the younger girls (i.e. they would then grant spots to the 1st and 3rd place finishers and then choose the final spot based on whatever other criteria is used)?

 

[OS]

She is the 4th most impressive Russian girl this season. That counts for something, right?

...and Adelina is not even in the top 10 this season. Your point again?

OGM is only prestigious and impressive IF the majority of people / your peers around the world recognise it and celebrate it. The Olympic movement is a global movement, it is suppose to showcase the best of humanity: spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play. If majority (50%+) disagrees with the judging in multiple languages, then that piece of metal is virtually meaningless.

I consider Julia's OGM is more credible than Adelina's OGM for example. Had they both skated their best OGM performances head to head, I'd easily place Julia ahead as she had repeatedly beaten Adelina through out the season, like at last European Championships

http://www.isuresults.com/results/ec2014/ec2014_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
(Check out all their flutz... note marks were already wildly inflated at the time controversially.)

Julia also had better momentum at that point having been the European Champion, as well as an OGM, and at the very least a superior FS program.

 

[Alba]

Just to add some further complications, what happens if the top 3 at Nationals includes some of the ladies not age-eligible for Senior Worlds (like Serafima or Evgenia)? All this discussion is focusing on the placements on the podium, but what if Evgenia gets the silver medal for example? She can't go to Worlds so then is only the winner guaranteed a spot on the team and then the federation gets to choose the other two spots? Or does the decision get based on the placements of the ladies after removing any of the younger girls (i.e. they would then grant spots to the 1st and 3rd place finishers and then choose the final spot based on whatever other criteria is used)?

I guess they will see the scores between the seniors. I have no idea.

 

[NaVi]

Just to add some further complications, what happens if the top 3 at Nationals includes some of the ladies not age-eligible for Senior Worlds (like Serafima or Evgenia)? All this discussion is focusing on the placements on the podium, but what if Evgenia gets the silver medal for example? She can't go to Worlds so then is only the winner guaranteed a spot on the team and then the federation gets to choose the other two spots? Or does the decision get based on the placements of the ladies after removing any of the younger girls (i.e. they would then grant spots to the 1st and 3rd place finishers and then choose the final spot based on whatever other criteria is used)?

You have to be 15 by July 1st of the previous year... so Serafima and Evgenia can't go. I think the top two who are eligible to go to the world champions are those that count. A junior getting a medal at Russian nationals has been the norm for a while.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Figure_Skating_Championships#Eligibility_and_qualifying

 

[Alba]

She still has the highest scoring short,

If she can only get through a FS i assume she'll be fine,
Maybe not this year though?

I mean, she managed to get her 3Lz-3T back till the GPF, And approved twice, That's kinda cool, No?
Maybe Flip or Sal will be there by Europeans or worlds.

She nailed the Sal at TEB also, but it has been always like this with that jump. Sometimes it goes well and sometimes it doesn't. Last year as well she fell on the Sal at Worlds, and Olympics, if I'm not mistaken?

At 16, Julia's body may not be done changing, and I think her technique has always been questionable as far as getting enough height to rotate jumps as an adult. It would not surprise me if she continues to struggle with consistency in the near future.

I don't know what's going to happen with her body in the future, just like I don't know about Radionova, Edmunds or other younger girls.
However, I don't see a connection right now because I don't see how can the puberty hit you on the LP in competition, and not in practice or in the SP.

 

[noskates]

Julia and Polina, quite frankly, should have already had those bodily changes due to puberty. I don't think that's a good excuse for poor skating! I do agree that Julia's technique is questionable and perhaps it's finally catching up with her. I also think, just like Polina Edmunds, that it's a lot easier to be a relative unknown and perform well than to follow that up with having to deal with all the celebrity and scrutiny and still skate well. Some of these young ladies just aren't ready for the pressure yet. As for Adelina, I would be immensely surprised if we ever see her on competitive ice again! She has nothing to prove and everything to lose if she doesn't have another skate of her life.

I think Tuk has the best chance of all of them!

 

[Krunchii]

Just to add some further complications, what happens if the top 3 at Nationals includes some of the ladies not age-eligible for Senior Worlds (like Serafima or Evgenia)? All this discussion is focusing on the placements on the podium, but what if Evgenia gets the silver medal for example? She can't go to Worlds so then is only the winner guaranteed a spot on the team and then the federation gets to choose the other two spots? Or does the decision get based on the placements of the ladies after removing any of the younger girls (i.e. they would then grant spots to the 1st and 3rd place finishers and then choose the final spot based on whatever other criteria is used)?

They would probably move down to the next age-eligible one, last year Adelina and Yulia were 1st and 2nd, 3rd was Elena Radionova, for the third spot at Euros they moved down to Alena Leonova who was 5th since 4th was Alexandra Proklova and she wasn't age eligible either. If a junior beats Elena or Liza they'll most likely still get a spot on the team due to their results at the GPF.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

OGM is only prestigious and impressive IF the majority of people / your peers around the world recognise it and celebrate it. The Olympic movement is a global movement, it is suppose to showcase the best of humanity: spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play. If majority (50%+) disagrees with the judging in multiple languages, then that piece of metal is virtually meaningless.

This is a tired argument. Many people disagreed with the results. Many people agreed with the results. The result split experts and fans alike, and it wasn't a solid majority either way. It's time to move on. The point of the thread is who should be on the Russian team, not your personal assessment of the validity of anyone's OGMs. If you want that discussion you should start another thread.

Neither Julia nor Adelina has momentum, but Adelina is a question mark while Julia has exhibited that her current form is off her best from last year. If Adelina skates well at a Senior B she will have skated two decent competitions this year and should be on the team. Whether you personally feel she should have the lowest PCS of the top Russians is irrelevant because the judges put Adelina ahead on the artistic mark almost every time she goes head-to-head against her countrywomen, and always when she is clean.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

However, I don't see a connection right now because I don't see how can the puberty hit you on the LP in competition, and not in practice or in the SP.

I think you can see the effect in the consistency. A skater may be able to do the same jumps but have trouble hitting them in competition a high percentage of the time. Julia had so many clean skates last year but this year has struggled with jumps.

 

[Alba]

I think you can see the effect in the consistency. A skater may be able to do the same jumps but have trouble hitting them in competition a high percentage of the time. Julia had so many clean skates last year but this year has struggled with jumps.

She has been consistent so far in the SP. Note, that's the program she prepared well in advance and never had to change. So, I don't know how the puberty can never effect her there, but always on the LP and everytime in competition. Not one clean skate with that LP so far. So it's not even a question of being inconsistent, which mean sometimes you hit a program and sometimes you don't.

 

[grantrf98]

Julia and Polina, quite frankly, should have already had those bodily changes due to puberty. I don't think that's a good excuse for poor skating! I do agree that Julia's technique is questionable and perhaps it's finally catching up with her. I also think, just like Polina Edmunds, that it's a lot easier to be a relative unknown and perform well than to follow that up with having to deal with all the celebrity and scrutiny and still skate well. Some of these young ladies just aren't ready for the pressure yet.

You're right! Like Alba said in the Julia thread, how could puberty affect the long program but not the short program? It's not a puberty problem and quite frankly, I don't think it's a "fame/celebrity" problem. I think it's all mental. Both of her programs are consistent; her short is always solid but her long is always shaky. If she overcomes her mental block for her long program at Nationals, I doubt we will see another meltdown from her for the rest of the season.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I think you can see the effect in the consistency. A skater may be able to do the same jumps but have trouble hitting them in competition a high percentage of the time. Julia had so many clean skates last year but this year has struggled with jumps.

But if Yulia has a good RN's her season may only be half way done. I think all this rhetoric is just hype to get ratings for Russian Nationals anyway. Adelina has said she will compete in the next event every time since Sochi. Even when she pulled out of Rostelecom Cup for injury she said she would train for NHK and then she pulled out and said the same thing about Nationals. After all of that it came to light that she just returned to the ice on dec 17th so..hmm. Now she'll train for Euro's. All the best to her but I'll believe it when I see it.

I find the whole jump technique argument a little silly myself and I'm not interested in predicting the future but I'm always curious as to those who make attempts at it. I'll just hope for the best for all of them and see how things shake out blade to ice. I will say this...if Yulia is having growth issues her timing is impeccable. She'll be clear and thru by seasons end with three years of prep time for the next Olympics while the younger whipper snappers like Sima, Zhenia, and even Elena will face it in the next few seasons. Post Olympic season is the best season to choke and only get two silver GP medals.

 

[rollerblade]

Will Adelina's injury even recover in time for Euros? Why did their federation bother making premature announcement causing drama when her status is still unknown?

Almost seems like if any of these girls can represent a different country, they should. I know there's a stigma where being the only skater from say, Nauru, isn't as prestigious as being #3 in Russia; but it sure beats not getting to attend competitions at all because of politics. Just follow Brooklee's footsteps. Hey, she got to skate in Worlds & Olympics!

I'm interested to see how Medvedeva's scores compare to Radionova's. I think Evgenia has smoother lines, but Elena has a lot more power/speed. Despite their "junior-ish" skating, I still like them both!

 

[Yamita]

I guess Adelina probably won't get the spot then. The competition in Poland is pretty soon, and it would be tough to get ready. I still hope to see her skate her programs again sometime later in the season. Maybe she could skate in the World Team Trophy if her condition is good?

Your post was very easy to read, btw. I think the Russian members of this forum write very good English !

I second that. :yes:

At 16, Julia's body may not be done changing, and I think her technique has always been questionable as far as getting enough height to rotate jumps as an adult. It would not surprise me if she continues to struggle with consistency in the near future.

Please see http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Lipnitskaia&p=1051110&viewfull=1#post1051110.
Yulia's jumps are not as bad as many thinks.

 

[Bonnie F]

Julia and Polina, quite frankly, should have already had those bodily changes due to puberty. I don't think that's a good excuse for poor skating! I do agree that Julia's technique is questionable and perhaps it's finally catching up with her. I also think, just like Polina Edmunds, that it's a lot easier to be a relative unknown and perform well than to follow that up with having to deal with all the celebrity and scrutiny and still skate well. Some of these young ladies just aren't ready for the pressure yet. As for Adelina, I would be immensely surprised if we ever see her on competitive ice again! She has nothing to prove and everything to lose if she doesn't have another skate of her life.

I think Tuk has the best chance of all of them!

I totally agree with you about Adeline, I also will be shocked to see her compete internationally again.

Now for what it's worth I'll offer an opinion on Julia. I think she is only confident when she feels totally prepared. I think the late change in LPs has been evident when compared to her SP performances all season. I believe they should have let her compete the Asian themed program she had planned, forcing her to change seemed to destroy her confidence completely. I also think her touring kept her from working on her jumps during the off season so she went to the GP under prepared. You can tell she has been working on the jumps during the fall but ideally that work should have been done during the summer or she should have sat out the GP until fully prepared. She was rushed into competing and suffered for it. I only hope her confidence hasn't taken a perminate hit. If she has the time to really get prepared and to really get comfortable with the program she'll probably do well. Next season though I think they need to let her pick her own music,like she did with SL, and they need to get the programs choreographed early so she has plenty of training time before debuting next year.

As to the euro team, who knows, I don't understand the ins and outs of the Russian federation's internal politics. I'm sure Liza and Radionova are just about sure things. If I had to guess, Adeline will suddenly need more time to recover from her injury and Julia will be up on the team - but I've never been very good at these guessing games.

 

[Selene]

I don't foresee Adelina ever competing again. I think it is all talk to keep her name in the news.

But if she is serious about competing (which I highly doubt,) I don't see why the Russian federation would give the spot to Lipnitskaia or Pogorilaya over the defending Olympic champion. Lipnitskaia and Pogorilaya's recent performances have done little to inspire confidence (and I think Lipnitskaia could be losing her jumps entirely - her poor technique isn't working now that she's grown a little bit.) And I think Adelina, when she's on, is by far the best ladies skater in the world (now that the veterans have retired.) No other skater has her combination of power, speed, flexibility and genuine artistry.

 

[amc987]

^^^ Ehhh, I don't know about genuine artistry. Her LP last year alternated between waving to the crowd and looking like she was pulling on an invisible string through 2/3 of the performance. Her flexibility is certainly impressive, as is the height and distance she gets on some of her jumps when she lands them.

But I get your point: Adelina is certainly one of the top 3 skaters in the world now that the veterans have retired. If she were in her Sochi form and wanted to compete (I think she does want to compete, but YMMV), I'd take her over this year's Lipnitskaya and Pogorilaya. I think she'll probably sit out this season, so it's moot.

 

[Snow63]

ADDED LATER

9. Yulia Lipnitskaia said that it's not an easy season for her, but she'll do her best at Nationals to take a spot in National team. She basically said, her goal is to skate, and specialists will decide who should be in the team. And even if she will not be there, it's not the end of the world, she still will have a chance to go to Worlds. She's just sixteen, it's to soon for her to retire
She also said that the competition will not be easy, many Russian girls in an amazing shape this season. So only the best will go to Euros.
Source: http://itar-tass.com/sport/1665625

Added.

 

[StitchMonkey]

So anyone almost hoping Yulia and Anna get one and two just to really confuse the entire issues?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

So anyone almost hoping Yulia and Anna get one and two just to really confuse the entire issues?

I said that earlier. Super buttery