Sinitsina/Katsalapov future prospects

[gmyers]

I don't think anyone "hates" Katsalapov (except for maybe Zhulin). Coaches may think that Katsalapov made a bad decision in dumping Ilinykh, but they may be unable to resist coaching someone as talented as Katsalapov, who really is an excellent skater and dancer.

After all, Zueva herself said that the Ilinykh/Katsalapov split was a bad idea at first, but she abruptly changed her tune after she agreed to coach Sinitsina/Katsalapov.

Like I said any personal feeling like "katsalapov will regret forever his decision" -they wouldn't be a volunteer - they'd be paid lots

 

[Manitou]

I really hope for the pair to come strong next season. They have a big potential, their RN free dance was such an improvement. To me they have a bigger potential than Elena/Ruslan, because to me Victoria is making much bigger progress than Ruslan. Elena is a high maintenance fiery force, and it will be very difficult for Ruslan to match up to her. In the Victoria/Nikita team it is Nikita who dominates and it's much easier and natural for a woman to match up to the male partner, than the other way around. And Victoria is making visible progress every time I see her. Give Victoria/Nikita time and they will surpass Elena/Ruslan.
I am really not a technical expert on dance, but I am just saying what I see with my eyes.


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[Mrs. P]

I really hope for the pair to come strong next season. They have a big potential, their RN free dance was such an improvement. To me they have a bigger potential than Elena/Ruslan, because to me Victoria is making much bigger progress than Ruslan. Elena is a high maintenance fiery force, and it will be very difficult for Ruslan to match up to her. In the Victoria/Nikita team it is Nikita who dominates and it's much easier and natural for a woman to match up to the male partner, than the other way around. And Victoria is making visible progress every time I see her. Give Victoria/Nikita time and they will surpass Elena/Ruslan.
I am really not a technical expert on dance, but I am just saying what I see with my eyes.


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Interesting viewpoint. I don't necessarily agree that a "male dominance" is easier or more natural. Ruslan might be the type of personality that can handle someone like Elena. I think one of the big issues of I/K is you had two fiery forces that both demand people's attention.

Perhaps it's better that the two strong-willed types be apart and be with someone that complements/contrasts rather than clashes.

i'm definitely in the wait-and-see camp. If you based a career on results during one season, then in that theory Hubbell/Donohue in the U.S. looked to be on an upward rise compared to the other new team, Chock and Bates based on 2011 Nationals results. Or heck, if you looked at 2010 Canadian National results, would you have predicted that Weaver and Poje would be the de-facto CAN No. 1 four years later?

 

[elif]

If we look at teams like Fusar-Poli/Margalio or Grushina/Goncarov, I'm curious hiding technically weak male partner easier? Both teams have olympic bronze. Interpretation wise every person have different tastes. I'm just talking about technical wise.

In the Victoria/Nikita team it is Nikita who dominates and it's much easier and natural for a woman to match up to the male partner, than the other way around.

Strong male/weak female teams never easier. Look at Gilles/Poirier, Stepanova/Bukin for example.

 

[Manitou]

Strong male/weak female teams never easier. Look at Gilles/Poirier, Stepanova/Bukin for example.

I never said Victoria is weak. In fact, I said Victoria makes bigger visible progress by adjusting to Nikita, than Ruslan to Elena. Which makes Victoria a stronger competitor than Ruslan.
And the reason it's harder for Ruslan to match up to Elena is that Elena is a very dominating, dramatic and demanding character and it has been always much harder for men to adjust to demanding and dominating women than the other way around. It has nothing to do with Victoria "being weak". It's exactly opposite.
I am just saying what I am seeing and what appears to be very visible to me.

 

[Manitou]

Or heck, if you looked at 2010 Canadian National results, would you have predicted that Weaver and Poje would be the de-facto CAN No. 1 four years later?

I knew Weaver and Poje would be one day World #1 when I saw them on Skate America in 2010. I don't know why. I just knew.

 

[sses1]

I never said Victoria is weak. In fact, I said Victoria makes bigger visible progress by adjusting to Nikita, than Ruslan to Elena. Which makes Victoria a stronger competitor than Ruslan.
And the reason it's harder for Ruslan to match up to Elena is that Elena is a very dominating, dramatic and demanding character and it has been always much harder for men to adjust to demanding and dominating women than the other way around. It has nothing to do with Victoria "being weak". It's exactly opposite.
I am just saying what I am seeing and what appears to be very visible to me.

I wouldn't say Victoria is weak either but she's not exactly an imposing force herself and she needs to bend her knees. If we're going to talk about the basics of skating Elena and Ruslan have her beat. What I see with I/Z is that Ruslan is able to match Elena in stroking rhythm and knee bend much better than Viki can to Nikita. Look at their skates. But then again I/Z are skating a style they are very familiar with when S/K have the more ambitious FD. Yes, Elena is mesmerizing and Ruslan isn't a dynamic skater like Nikita where he's going to match for passion and expression, but he does a better good job of skating with her, alongside her than Nikita does to Viki, which is the reason they are not Russian champions.

 

[Manitou]

I wouldn't say Victoria is weak either but she's not exactly an imposing force herself and she needs to bend her knees. If we're going to talk about the basics of skating Elena and Ruslan have her beat. What I see with I/Z is that Ruslan is able to match Elena in stroking rhythm and knee bend much better than Viki can to Nikita. Look at their skates. But then again I/Z are skating a style they are very familiar with when S/K have the more ambitious FD. Yes, Elena is mesmerizing and Ruslan isn't a dynamic skater like Nikita where he's going to match for passion and expression, but he does a better good job of skating with her, alongside her than Nikita does to Viki, which is the reason they are not Russian champions.

I am really not arguing with you because I know I can be proven wrong very easily. Especially on the technical basis, where I am not an expert at all. I am just observing the chemistry and connection between partners within the two teams.

In Victoria/Nikita team I see a growing connection between them. Even though they might be weaker technically right now, but they are growing. Their chemistry is growing. And it's growing because they both want the connection and chemistry to grow. They both contribute equally to this growth.
In Elena/Ruslan team there is only Elena. She is connecting with herself, she is having chemistry with herself. There is no Ruslan there. It's just Elena's show. And I don't know if this dynamics is going ever to change. They might be more technically ready at the moment, but how far can this situation go?
I must add, however: this Elena's show is actually quite good! Maybe it will carry them far. Maybe they don't need to equally connect.

I don't know. Very possible I am just a bad judge and everything I said is wrong. But at least this is what I am seeing now.

 

[Meoima]

^I strongly disagree about I/Z is all about Elena. Ruslan was the one who makes the balance in their FD. The reason Lena can shine so bright is not that Ruslan is fading away, but because Ruslan is very reliable that Elena can shine. Ruslan can easily match the rythm and the knees bend and edge, and even speed of Elena.

 

[Manitou]

^I strongly disagree about I/Z is all about Elena. Ruslan was the one who makes the balance in their FD. The reason Lena can shine so bright is not that Ruslan is fading away, but because Ruslan is very reliable that Elena can shine. Ruslan can easily match the rythm and the knees bend and edge, and even speed of Elena.

It's actually a very valid point.

But at the same time I will add: Elena and Ruslan still lost FD to Xenia/Kiril, where the strength was more equally distributed and where more was based on flow and mutual connection.
So maybe there is a limit how far a one person show can go....

But again: it's just observation based on just one show, so it doesn't have much statistical value yet.

 

[LisaM]

I never said Victoria is weak. In fact, I said Victoria makes bigger visible progress by adjusting to Nikita, than Ruslan to Elena. Which makes Victoria a stronger competitor than Ruslan.
And the reason it's harder for Ruslan to match up to Elena is that Elena is a very dominating, dramatic and demanding character and it has been always much harder for men to adjust to demanding and dominating women than the other way around. It has nothing to do with Victoria "being weak". It's exactly opposite.
I am just saying what I am seeing and what appears to be very visible to me.

Are we even watching the same teams? Ruslan is a far stronger skater AND partner and has made massive strides since partnering up with Elena. Viktoria however, has maybe made some improvements in expression, but only because Nikita is so overdramatic (which he can't really balance out with great skating either, although he is definitely talented). If you would just look at their skates instead of their upper bodies and faces, and compare Z and S with how they were when they were partners, then you'd see Z's progress is much bigger.

 

[Kittosuni]

K/S has the 2nd highest PCS behind I/Z so obviously judges were willing to help them out unfortunately they just cant get their levels. Aside from the return of b/s, y/m moving to seniors next year is such a threat to all teams. I think they are really that good

 

[Manitou]

Are we even watching the same teams? Ruslan is a far stronger skater AND partner and has made massive strides since partnering up with Elena. Viktoria however, has maybe made some improvements in expression, but only because Nikita is so overdramatic (which he can't really balance out with great skating either, although he is definitely talented). If you would just look at their skates instead of their upper bodies and faces, and compare Z and S with how they were when they were partners, then you'd see Z's progress is much bigger.

My problem is that I am not a technical observer. I look at upper bodies and faces only trying to find connection and chemistry. This is why I am not a good partner in technical discussions.
But since I have been a fan of the sport for many decades I thought I could throw a modest observation.
Maybe some people pay too much attention to feet and edges only and by doing that they lose some other important aspects...

 

[elif]

But at the same time I will add: Elena and Ruslan still lost FD to Xenia/Kiril, where the strength was more equally distributed and where more was based on fluidity and mutual connection.

Just to clear this: I/Z lost free dance 0.39 point (101.06 to 101.47) won PCS over everyone, lost TES because I/Z made mistakes on lifts and twizzles. And I strongly disagree Monko/Khaliavin have mutual connection and fluidity... :shocked:

You can't just look ''imaginary connection'' than say this team will be better than other. If you only look at connection, Virtue/Moir should have won ten times over Davis/White. But Davis/White olympic champion and 5 time GPF champion. You have to consider basic skating quality, quality of the technical elements, quality of the programs to judge ice dance. Those are important aspects of the dance. Old 6.0 days are over.

 

[Manitou]

^ OK, I get the point.

 

[LisaM]

You can't just look ''imaginary connection'' than say this team will be better than other. If you only look at connection, Virtue/Moir should have won ten times over Davis/White. But Davis/White olympic champion and 5 time GPF champion. You have to consider basic skating quality, quality of the technical elements, quality of the programs to judge ice dance. Other important aspects of the dance. Old 6.0 days are over.

Exactly. ID is a technical sport first and foremost. You can have all the connection you want, but if you don't have the technical qualities to back that up you won't get anywhere. It's fine if you think S/K's expression or connection is better but it is not THE basis of the sport of ID.

 

[sses1]

Maybe some people pay too much attention to feet and edges only and by doing that they lose some other important aspects...

S/K aesthetically look better together in comparison to I/Z but that shouldn't matter. I don't really see a natural connection between S/K on the ice and even after their programs are done its very business like. However, I see a natural connection between I/Z that was always there and its one of the best things going for them at the moment. Though it does come down to personal taste in the end.

 

[dorispulaski]

When does the gala and award ceremony start? Do we know if Skats are invited?

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?53541-2015-Russian-Nationals-Gala

Soon.

It looks like the top 5 pairs are invited. If the same is true in dance, S&K should be there!

 

[machin]

You have to consider basic skating quality, quality of the technical elements, quality of the programs to judge ice dance. Those are important aspects of the dance. Old 6.0 days are over.

VM were better than DW in all these aspects of their skating too by a mile, they lost speed toward the end of their career though, I agree.
And 6.0 is dead ? really ? they still works the same way you know. People are the same too. Russian nationals showed it very well.

 

[elif]

VM were better than DW in all these aspects of their skating too by a mile, they lost speed toward the end of their career though, I agree.

No. Virtue/Moir's technical elements, especially lifts from olympic year is not good. They had problems with straight line and rotational lift all year; curve lift is very generic and juniorish. Quality of the technical elements goes to Davis/White. The Seasons is not good. A lot of music cuts, no highlight, some empty places before elements (especially steps) So quality of the program goes to Davis/White too. I agree Virtue/Moir have basic quality but as you said Davis/White had speed.