Elizaveta's triple A

[solani]

Well, didn't Lori Nichol only start working with Gracie last year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gracie_Gold#Programs

Wasn't Gracie 18 then? At any rate, she can't have been much younger than Liza is now. I do agree that her working with Liza is extremely unlikely (for which I'm devoutly grateful), just that that is unlikely to be the reason. Since Team Mishin have worked with Jeffrey Buttle and/or Stephane Lambiel before, those could be more realistic options.

True, she obviously changed her mind. Or Frank Carroll did as they have worked together regularly in the past. Well, it didn't turn out well imho.

Me either. I'd much rather her go to someone like Shae-Lynn or Phillip Mills. I'm not very familiar with Russian choreographers other than Morozov and Tarasova; are there any who might be good for her?

I don't think that Tarasova is an option for Mishin.

 

[mrrice]

She is such a badass! I just love her- and also actually Mishin All best to her with being able to land it in competition!!!!

You're right, she is a badass! Whenever I see a close up picture of her, all I can think.....for those of you who are old enough to remember this commercial..

Maybe it's Maybelline. Gorgeous!!!

 

[mskater93]

Her presentation is nice but she doesn't command your attention as much as Elena or Ashley (although Liza's SS are better). Basically everyone competing this year has a substantial weaknesses, so I'd say no one deserves 70+ also.

At SkAm in person, it felt like Tukt was MUCH more commanding than Radionova, but there were still some weaknesses.

 

[LRK]

At SkAm in person, it felt like Tukt was MUCH more commanding than Radionova, but there were still some weaknesses.

I think that was the competition when Liza came across as a little... tired in the FP? For her, I mean. (I tend to get what happened when mixed up, though... )

Oh, and I'm sure there are areas that Liza can work on and improve - it would be sad if she'd hit her peak at 17-18.

 

[sbaker]

Liza + Mishin + Shae Lynn Bourne = Dream Team

 

[samson]

Liza + Mishin + Shae Lynn Bourne = Dream Team

Now THAT'S an interesting idea!

 

[karne]

I think that was the competition when Liza came across as a little... tired in the FP? For her, I mean. (I tend to get what happened when mixed up, though... )

Yeah, she was. It was her fifth competition in four weeks and I think that was when she finally overdid it.

 

[beki]

To be honest, I don't think Liza and Mishin are that interested in completely transforming her image and coming up with groundbreaking choreography. They will do enough to win.

I don't think they need to. Liza is not my usual cup of tea, but if you're improving, skating with confidence, consistency and charisma, as she is this year, you can win over most people. I would find it annoying if she were hyped as having some artistic breakthrough the way Slutskaya was. No, she is an exciting technical skater who has personality. Kind of like Javier Fernandez.

 

[hippomoomin]

I know this is already off the topic of the thread. Liza seems to need certain type of music to turn her performance and jumps on, i.e., music with strong rhyme，Middle Eastern music, Latin music... I wonder if she has some Middle Eastern dance training when she was a kid, because she does this kind of dance very well, and not much anything else. She got my attention with her SP in her first junior season. She seemed to be fond of that piece a lot and used that as her exhibition in later seasons.

 

[Tutto]

Yesterday Lisa landed a perfect 3A in competition, the Tournament for the Prizes of the Figure Skating Federation of St. Petersburg, a video of her SP here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko-cVWXugYs

Results can be seen here :

http://fsevents.narod.ru/event/s1415/cupfspb/cupfspb_MC_K_Scores.pdf

LP is today

 

[Tutto]

A little update from Lisa & Mishin:

http://tass.ru/sport/1811197

Lisa admitted that perfect execution of the most difficult jump in ladies figure skating has given her extra confidence in preparation for the World Championship. As she’d announced earlier, she is planning to include this element in Shanghai.

Her coach, Aleksei Mishin, who is at the moment in Tallinn, Estonia at the Junior Worlds, commented: ‘Lisa landed 3A for the first time in competition, she attempted it before at Open Bavaria but it was not ideal. This time everything came together.

Lisa said: ‘I was very nervous as it is still an absolutely new element for me. But it went so well I hadn’t expected it myself. In fact I was so stunned that I even couldn't complete the rest of not so difficult elements well. Okay I just have to be more focused next time. There will be no more competitions before the Worlds. I am glad that I've used this opportunity to skate in public, now I’ll concentrate on polishing my programs for the Worlds’

 

[satine]

I'm so excited for this at Worlds

 

[Tutto]

An update from Mishin, it looks like we might not see 3A at Worlds after all (and I still think it would be a smarter strategy, IMHO, though I admire Lisa immensely for her beautiful 3A)

Aleksei Mishin commented his student’s SP in St Petersburg:

http://fsrussia.ru/news/848-tuktamys...programme.html

‘Our idea to include 3A into the programs is slowly coming to life. Today Lisa landed this difficult jump cleanly in the SP. For that we had to adjust the program a lot: to change the layout, to work with music. But it was worth it. We’ll see how things continue to develop. It is obvious that the ladies discipline which is going the way of upping the technical content, will get to that. But the question whether Lisa will do 3A in Shanghai remains open’

Meanwhile, Lisa skated her LP very well today, results here:

http://fsevents.narod.ru/event/s1415/cupfspb/cupfspb_MC__Scores.pdf

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Having now landed the 3A, I'd say Liza is the most technically complete jumper since Midori Ito, who also did all the triples and the 3Lz-3T. If this becomes a consistent jump for her it is going to force the other women to try it because, unlike Mao, she doesn't lose points with inconsistency on her easier triples.

 

[Leonardo]

An update from Mishin, it looks like we might not see 3A at Worlds after all (and I still think it would be a smarter strategy, IMHO, though I admire Lisa immensely for her beautiful 3A)

Aleksei Mishin commented his student’s SP in St Petersburg:

http://fsrussia.ru/news/848-tuktamys...programme.html

‘Our idea to include 3A into the programs is slowly coming to life. Today Lisa landed this difficult jump cleanly in the SP. For that we had to adjust the program a lot: to change the layout, to work with music. But it was worth it. We’ll see how things continue to develop. It is obvious that the ladies discipline which is going the way of upping the technical content, will get to that. But the question whether Lisa will do 3A in Shanghai remains open’

Meanwhile, Lisa skated her LP very well today, results here:

http://fsevents.narod.ru/event/s1415/cupfspb/cupfspb_MC__Scores.pdf

Wow, this girl is a machine...When I thought I couldn't love her, more she nails a 3A in the short program

 

[Blades of Passion]

I really doubt she'll use it at Worlds but for next season she should. However, it needs to be worked into the program correctly. She shouldn't open with it, there's too long of a setup. The program needs to build to it more.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Having now landed the 3A, I'd say Liza is the most technically complete jumper since Midori Ito, who also did all the triples and the 3Lz-3T. If this becomes a consistent jump for her it is going to force the other women to try it because, unlike Mao, she doesn't lose points with inconsistency on her easier triples.

Uh, but in this competition she landed the 3A and then messed up both jumping passes after - that's not exactly technically complete (compared to, say Mao's Vancouver SP where she landed the 3A and then executed her other jumping passes) and it would be an example of her losing points on her easier triples. Not to mention, she hasn't done the 3Z+3T in a while in competition. Her lutz and flip edges are correct though, but it's WAYYYYY too soon to even call her remotely close to being a technically complete jumper after not even one full season. I mean, she hasn't even landed the 3A in an international competition (let alone a high-stakes international competition), and you're already saying she's more technically complete than Mao (who attempts it in both programs, and is the only successful one to have done it in both)? And is she technically complete enough to land both a 3Z+3T and a 3F+3T like Kim/Kostner or 3F+3L like Mao or a 3Z+3L like Slutskaya/Sotnikova or a 3L+3S like Radionova?

This isn't to take away from her landing the 3A in the St. Petersburg competition, but I wouldn't call her the most technically complete jumper since Ito just because she landed one 3A in one SP.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Uh, but in this competition she landed the 3A and then messed up both jumping passes after - that's not exactly technically complete (compared to, say Mao's Vancouver SP where she landed the 3A and then executed her other jumping passes) and it would be an example of her losing points on her easier triples. Not to mention, she hasn't done the 3Z+3T in a while in competition. Her lutz and flip edges are correct though, but it's WAYYYYY too soon to even call her remotely close to being a technically complete jumper after not even one full season. I mean, she hasn't even landed the 3A in an international competition (let alone a high-stakes international competition), and you're already saying she's more technically complete than Mao (who attempts it in both programs, and is the only successful one to have done it in both)? And is she technically complete enough to land both a 3Z+3T and a 3F+3T like Kim/Kostner or 3F+3L like Mao or a 3Z+3L like Slutskaya/Sotnikova or a 3L+3S like Radionova?

So are you saying Mao is more consistent on the easier triples because Liza doubled the 2Lz? Do you doubt that if she trained a 3F-3T she could land it? Liza had an off year last year, as almost every skater has, so this isn't exactly "one" season of strong jumps we have seen from her. No one in the last 20 years has more effortless looking jumps than Liza. It is laughable to suggest that because Liza has not landed every single 3/3 that every other skater has in the last 20 years that she is somehow inferior.

This isn't to take away from her landing the 3A in the St. Petersburg competition, but I wouldn't call her the most technically complete jumper since Ito just because she landed one 3A in one SP.

It's one more than Yuna, Caro, Slutskaya, Sotnikova or Radionova have landed.

 

[Sandpiper]

I see both sides of the argument. On one hand, yes, let's not get too carried away by one triple axel landed at a small domestic competition. Liza has not yet 'proven' herself long-term the way Yuna or Mao have.

On the other hand... Tonya Harding is often (still) cited as one of the greatest ladies jumpers. Even though she didn't deliver most of the time. If we just look at the quality of Liza's jumps on their own, without considering consistency/competitive records: She fully rotates all her jumps, has clear edges on both lutz and flip, and attains a great combination of height and control. Under either system--COP or 6.0--it's hard to fault what she's doing. She has done three different triple-triple combinations in competition: 3T-3T, 3S-3T, and 3Lz-3T. And now a 3A.

I guess the answer is... Do you consider Tonya Harding a more complete jumper than Mao Asada? If you say yes, then we have to include Liza in the conversation. If you say no, then I understand--from that standpoint, Liza is not quite in the top 3-5.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

It's not even so much about the comparison to Mao, but...

Having now landed the 3A, I'd say Liza is the most technically complete jumper since Midori Ito, who also did all the triples and the 3Lz-3T. If this becomes a consistent jump for her it is going to force the other women to try it because, unlike Mao, she doesn't lose points with inconsistency on her easier triples.

....is a thing we simply don't know yet. Liza is an amazing jumper, and I'd consider her struggles last season as an 'off-season' rather than anything close to a standard for her too. But the thing is, the 3A for the ladies is the same beast the 4T is for the men - just including it makes the whole program that much harder. Landing a 3Lz is different when you had to do a 3A beforehand. So while Liza is consistent with her jumps without the 3A, we don't 100% know how she's going to do with the easier triples once the 3A really makes it into the programs (and I'd think especially the LP).

I like Liza a lot and I'm very excited she's going for the 3A. If she tries it at worlds and lands it I'll be jumping around like a happy bunny for days. I'd love for her to get the 3A consistent and she looks to have a really good shot at that. But still, things we don't know yet are things we don't know.