2015-16 State of U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[musicfan80]

My dream US Men's team for 2018 is Jason. Josh and Nathan. Those 3 really are the present and future of US Men's skating.

I think the 2018 team will be some combination of Jason, Josh, Nathan, Max, or Adam (if he stays at his level til then). Unless I am looking at this wrong, I can't see any other guy being able to break in there. Maybe Moeller? I know TSL have "adopted" some second tier skaters - maybe the attention and hype will help them in training and competing.

 

[TMC]

I think the 2018 team will be some combination of Jason, Josh, Nathan, Max, or Adam (if he stays at his level til then). Unless I am looking at this wrong, I can't see any other guy being able to break in there. Maybe Moeller? I know TSL have "adopted" some second tier skaters - maybe the attention and hype will help them in training and competing.

Is Andrew Torgashev going to be of age for 2018? If so, I think he's the one to challenge a spot on your list - which I agree with btw.

 

[musicfan80]

Is Andrew Torgashev going to be of age for 2018? If so, I think he's the one to challenge a spot on your list - which I agree with btw.

Just briefly looked at his Wikipedia article - Andrew will turn 17 in Spring 2018 - so he is eligible. Would he be of quality by then? Or is he more for 2022?

Anyway, with my list that is still 5 (maybe 6?) guys going for 3 (praying to skate gods we keep them) spots. Yikes!

 

[StitchMonkey]

Just briefly looked at his Wikipedia article - Andrew will turn 17 in Spring 2018 - so he is eligible. Would he be of quality by then? Or is he more for 2022?

Anyway, with my list that is still 5 (maybe 6?) guys going for 3 (praying to skate gods we keep them) spots. Yikes!

I think Andrew is a maybe if we have three spots, but probably not if not i don't think so as much.

 

[aromaticchicken]

Imo Andrew has just as much chance as Adam or Max, in that if Jason, Josh, and Nathan skate clean they don't stand a very good chance at all but if any falter they could fill a spot.

Andrew is definitely more of a 2022 hope. And don't forget that Vincent Zhou may jump into the top fray as well. His confidence and consistency are quite impressive...

 

[karne]

Perhaps it's worth pointing this out since people are so desperate to crown Chen:

Only two of the names who keep getting bandied about have National titles. One is Jason, and the other (which people like to conveniently forget since it came at the expense of a "fan favourite") is Max.

Not Adam, not Josh, and certainly not Chen.

 

[Interspectator]

Perhaps it's worth pointing this out since people are so desperate to crown Chen:

Only two of the names who keep getting bandied about have National titles. One is Jason, and the other (which people like to conveniently forget since it came at the expense of a "fan favourite") is Max.

Not Adam, not Josh, and certainly not Chen.

Max is just as much a fan-favorite as Josh and Adam...at least if you look at their fan-fest threads. As for 'Crowning Nathan' anything...mostly, folks are impaitent to see him go up against the top guys in international competition, you know, so as to have a better competition.

 

[Mrs. P]

Max is just as much a fan-favorite as Josh and Adam...at least if you look at their fan-fest threads. As for 'Crowning Nathan' anything...mostly, folks are impaitent to see him go up against the top guys in international competition, you know, so as to have a better competition.

Yes, I don't think we need to get dramatics here. I do not think people are "desperate" - rather are just simply eager to see Nathan compete with the seniors, especially internationally, cause he appears to have technical arsenal to do so.

I'm eager for this season to start so I have some numbers to compare everyone with.

 

[ice coverage]

Max is just as much a fan-favorite as Josh and Adam...at least if you look at their fan-fest threads. ...

I think maybe the contrast that karne was drawing is that Jason already was a major fan-favorite before becoming national champ, whereas Max was not. (I know that karne loves them both. Me too.)

Anecdotal sample of one :
In my own case of ignorance, I had barely any awareness of Max until he won the national title -- although then I quickly became a huge admirer.
But my interest in Jason dated at least as far back as the US sweep of the men's podium at 2013 Junior Worlds.

---

I had to watch this video four times before I was even aware there were other people in it. Gorgeous....

... I can't believe that's Max. It's a miracle!!!!

:agree: I too was mesmerized by the TSL video of Max's stroking exercise. Reminded me of an ice dancer . What an accomplishment for Max -- even just in training. Hope he can show the same in competition.

---

Jenny and Dave need to hit up LA considering that's where most of the top Senior US Ladies are Gracie.Ashley,Polina and Karen Chen. Not sure if Courtney Hicks is still based in California though. ...

Jenny is based in San Diego, I think?
So day trips could suffice for visiting the SoCal ladies -- without the need for flights/hotels/etc. requiring GoFundMe donations.
(I don't know where Dave lives.)

During the TSL trip, Ashley tweeted at them to say (not a direct quote) that she is game for TSL to visit her.

 

[karne]

Max is just as much a fan-favorite as Josh and Adam...at least if you look at their fan-fest threads. As for 'Crowning Nathan' anything...mostly, folks are impaitent to see him go up against the top guys in international competition, you know, so as to have a better competition.

Max was not a fan-favourite when he won his National title - but he dared to beat Jeremy, and oh my goodness, didn't they let everyone know it. It was an insane amount of angst in proportion to the event and it was totally unfair.

Yes, I don't think we need to get dramatics here. I do not think people are "desperate" - rather are just simply eager to see Nathan compete with the seniors, especially internationally, cause he appears to have technical arsenal to do so.

Afraid I have to disagree, Mrs P. There are certain posters in this thread who have made it quite clear that they think Nathan is the new king and everyone else goes on the trash heap.

I'm eager for this season to start so I have some numbers to compare everyone with.

You're such a nerd.

 

[el henry]

OK, it's the internet, so I feel the need to repeat myself endlessly. There are two kinds of Nathan-love:

1. What a great kid, how he hits those jumps, elegance, precision, wow, I wonder what he could do in the senior ranks? I wonder if skating with the "big guns" would up his game, particularly his performance element which we all admit needs to be upped. I call this "good Nathan-centered, Nathan love". You know who you are, and you're cool.

2. Hoo boy, all you other Americans who dare to skate onto the ice without a consistent quad, or without a quad at all. Now we have Nathan who will show you for the witless trolls on ice that you are. (Why these folks aren't all supporting Max if they love quads so much is beyond me. He has the jumps and his presentation is much better). I call this "not even Nathan love".

Good Nathan love is fine, great, and let's skate! Bad not even Nathan love....

 

[Interspectator]

OK, it's the internet, so I feel the need to repeat myself endlessly. There are two kinds of Nathan-love:

1. What a great kid, how he hits those jumps, elegance, precision, wow, I wonder what he could do in the senior ranks? I wonder if skating with the "big guns" would up his game, particularly his performance element which we all admit needs to be upped. I call this "good Nathan-centered, Nathan love". You know who you are, and you're cool.

2. Hoo boy, all you other Americans who dare to skate onto the ice without a consistent quad, or without a quad at all. Now we have Nathan who will show you for the witless trolls on ice that you are. (Why these folks aren't all supporting Max is beyond me). I call this "not even Nathan love".

Good Nathan love is fine, great, and let's skate! Bad not even Nathan love....

Fair enough; but in reading through this thread the instances of 1. outweigh 2. to such an extent that 2 could be called negligible or even imaginary. Seriously, I've actually back-read through this thread for Nathan references...it's mostly all 1. No mention of Nathan replacing any of the top men, no mention of the other men being rubbish in comparison. Maybe there is this kind of talk in other threads or other forums but here and now, most posters fall under the category of 1. Hooray! :thumbsup:

 

[Mrs. P]

Max was not a fan-favourite when he won his National title - but he dared to beat Jeremy, and oh my goodness, didn't they let everyone know it. It was an insane amount of angst in proportion to the event and it was totally unfair.

Afraid I have to disagree, Mrs P. There are certain posters in this thread who have made it quite clear that they think Nathan is the new king and everyone else goes on the trash heap.

OK, it's the internet, so I feel the need to repeat myself endlessly. There are two kinds of Nathan-love:

1. What a great kid, how he hits those jumps, elegance, precision, wow, I wonder what he could do in the senior ranks? I wonder if skating with the "big guns" would up his game, particularly his performance element which we all admit needs to be upped. I call this "good Nathan-centered, Nathan love". You know who you are, and you're cool.

2. Hoo boy, all you other Americans who dare to skate onto the ice without a consistent quad, or without a quad at all. Now we have Nathan who will show you for the witless trolls on ice that you are. (Why these folks aren't all supporting Max if they love quads so much is beyond me. He has the jumps and his presentation is much better). I call this "not even Nathan love".

Good Nathan love is fine, great, and let's skate! Bad not even Nathan love....

Fair enough; but in reading through this thread the instances of 1. outweigh 2. to such an extent that 2 could be called negligible or even imaginary. Seriously, I've actually back-read through this thread for Nathan references...it's mostly all 1. No mention of Nathan replacing any of the top men, no mention of the other men being rubbish in comparison. Maybe there is this kind of talk in other threads or other forums but here and now, most posters fall under the category of 1. Hooray! :thumbsup:

RE: Max

For the record, I called Max Aaron as "dark horse" for the National title on Nov. 17, 2012, in a thread about Trophee Eric Bompard. Namely because Jeremy had been beaten by Takahito Mura: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?38825-2012-TEB-Men-s-Long-Programs-LP/page7

Actually Max Aaron has a VERY reliable quad. He did not get a GP, but he has done quite well in the senior B competitions he's entered getting a gold at the U.S. Classic and silver at Coupe de Nice. And then he won his sectionals with a technically strong program that included a 4T-3T and two 3A.

He finished 8th in his seniors debut last year. I think he could be a dark horse this year...

And yes Josh Farris also did a lovely quad in Lake Placid. He didn't do it at this other JGP. He also could come and mix things up.

ETA: Aaron has done both 4S and 4T this season. It will be quite interesting if he can pull out both.

And by the way, there were some who were quite happy with Max getting the title. Here you go:

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/sh...-Senior-Men-LP&p=705431&viewfull=1#post705431

To me, Aaron's program popped and Miner's didn't. I don't know about ticking off CoP bullets on the PCS side, but Aaron's performance held my interest for four-and-a-half minutes.

I am not worried about Worlds. Go, skate, what happens happens.

RE: Nathan.

I think it's really natural to talk up someone who had an impressive performance. That happened with Jason after Nationals 2014, that happened with Josh after 4CC last year and it's happening with Nathan right now.

He will be nitpicked just like the other men soon enough.

 

[Ice Dance]

Only two of the names who keep getting bandied about have National titles. One is Jason, and the other is Max.

Depends on how you define a National title. Nathan has four national titles. Two in novice. Two in juniors. Pretty sure this is why he has such a following. It's not exactly out of nowhere. It's been a LONG time since Peter & the Wolf.

 

[chuckm]

Jason has 3 National titles: Senior (2015), Junior (2010), Juvenile (2007)
Jeremy Abbott has 4 Senior titles and one Junior title.

 

[ice coverage]

... Only two of the names who keep getting bandied about have National titles. One is Jason, and the other (which people like to conveniently forget since it came at the expense of a "fan favourite") is Max.

Not Adam, not Josh, and certainly not Chen.

Depends on how you define a National title. Nathan has four national titles. Two in novice. Two in juniors. Pretty sure this is why he has such a following. It's not exactly out of nowhere. It's been a LONG time since Peter & the Wolf.

LOL, it doesn't take a genius to recognize that karne obviously was referring to Senior national titles, although she did not spell it out.

In any case, I think karne is well aware that Nathan did not come out of nowhere. But his track record specifically from this summer has been the tipping point, I would say, for a quantum leap in the intensity of excitement over his season ahead.

(For the exercise of citing all national titles, I will add that Max has three: one Juvenile, one Junior, and one Senior.)

RE: Max

For the record, I called Max Aaron as "dark horse" for the National title on Nov. 17, 2012, in a thread about Trophee Eric Bompard. Namely because Jeremy had been beaten by Takahito Mura: http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?38825-2012-TEB-Men-s-Long-Programs-LP/page7

Actually Max Aaron has a VERY reliable quad. He did not get a GP, but he has done quite well in the senior B competitions he's entered getting a gold at the U.S. Classic and silver at Coupe de Nice. And then he won his sectionals with a technically strong program that included a 4T-3T and two 3A.

He finished 8th in his seniors debut last year. I think he could be a dark horse this year...
...
And yes Josh Farris also did a lovely quad in Lake Placid. He didn't do it at this other JGP. He also could come and mix things up.

ETA: Aaron has done both 4S and 4T this season. It will be quite interesting if he can pull out both.

...

Just goes to show once again that you are way ahead of a lot of us, Mrs. P .

Duh ... I never knew that Max had a quad toe in 2012. Thanks for the enlightenment .

 

[aromaticchicken]

And Adam technically has two world (junior) titles...

 

[fallingsk8er]

2. Hoo boy, all you other Americans who dare to skate onto the ice without a consistent quad, or without a quad at all. Now we have Nathan who will show you for the witless trolls on ice that you are.

Stop quoting me!!

 

[silverlake22]

Afraid I have to disagree, Mrs P. There are certain posters in this thread who have made it quite clear that they think Nathan is the new king and everyone else goes on the trash heap.

I don't know if people are announcing Nathan as the new king and throwing everyone else into the trash heap so much as they are worried that:

- Jeremy is done. Or if he isn't he still won't ever be able to skate clean programs with a quad ever again.
- Jason will never get a quad and his 3a will continue to be succeptible to < and <<
- Josh's career will end before it ever really gets to begin because his constant injuries will lead to an early retirement, or, he just won't ever get a consistent quad and will just flounder in the standings
- Dornbush will never become a reliable competitor who can put 2 good programs together at a single event
- Max won't be able to improve his PCS and spins nearly enough to make it to the top
- Rippon. Well, has he ever been really consistent? The flashes of brilliance won't come out when we really need them to.

Chen is simply another exciting prospect that people are hopeful will pan out. The US certainly has a whole slew of talented guys competing right now, but none of them appear to be a "slam dunk" as of right now, so maybe Nathan could be that guy.

 

[apgold]

- Jeremy is done. Or if he isn't he still won't ever be able to skate clean programs with a quad ever again.
- Jason will never get a quad and his 3a will continue to be succeptible to < and <<
- Josh's career will end before it ever really gets to begin because his constant injuries will lead to an early retirement, or, he just won't ever get a consistent quad and will just flounder in the standings
- Dornbush will never become a reliable competitor who can put 2 good programs together at a single event
- Max won't be able to improve his PCS and spins nearly enough to make it to the top
- Rippon. Well, has he ever been really consistent? The flashes of brilliance won't come out when we really need them to.

That's about right. I think we'll have our answers to those worries/concerns this season. Nathan can simmer in Juniors another year, and hopefully do really well, as long as he stays injury free.

FWIW, in some of the TSL footage, Jason did a fantastic 3A, with great height and landing. As for the quad, that's another story.