Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[MK's Winter]

Well all that challenging choreo given to the Shibs in the past that seemed to be just over their heads at times, is paying dividends now. Everybody, just needs to bear in mind that in spite of their promise they're still only a two year union.

This. I say stay creative, this is ice dance and we want more fans.

 

[tvuckic16]

I think it is totally unnecessary to be talking about change of coaches etc. I mean, I/Z are doing very well! They scored very well! They are 3rd, but they are very close, it is not like last year where they were roughly 10 pts away from the nearest top team. Also, I wouldn't draw any conclusions about what they should or should not change till we see more from them. Let's see how they score for the FD.

 

[Alba]

I'm all for teams being creative, but they are still establishing themselves and so the judges don't give them the benefit of the doubt, especially on the SD. I don't think other top coaches would have supported them doing this sd at this stage in the partnership, and yes it's more boring, but they'd get an easier ride from the judges, and still have the FD to make freer more creative choices. You have to decide what's more important, sticking rigidly to a creative vision, or making compromises so you get the best results.

Well, it seems they have made a decision, for now at least. It's some fans who are not happy with their decision which is fair enough but I don't see good reasons to push the alarm button. Not now anyway. Mind you that when I say creative it doesn't mean that different, or out of the box thinking, it's always necessary good enough or can work. You can be creative with classical pieces also but I'm also for freedom and experiments when a team is trying to create and find their own style and not copying anyone. I might be wrong but I believe they are doing very well in this aspect.

And we don't know who chooses the costumes, but the coach should have a role in ensuring their skaters have the best package possible, and if that means telling your skaters to change the clothes, you do it. But her teams have always been criticised for having heavy looking or old fashioned outfits.

We do know who chooses the costumes, at least for IZ. Elena said that much herself and also who made them. I haven't seen big improvements with M&K package either, despite them changing coaches, so people can criticise Kustarova to death for that too but it's silly. I do agree though that the coach should have a role in ensuring their skaters have the best package possible, including telling your skaters to change the clothes.

Anyway, I don't think the issue were the costumes here. Today they should've been placed second, at least. There is no sensible skating reason for them to be in third place after the SD, based of what we saw today. Do we agree on that?

 

[LisaM]

Definitely. I can see them move up a place too.

 

[Duality]

I'm worried about IZ... With their base value
they could easily lead in SD but instead got super low GOEs and low PCS. I'm afraid it means that Fed isn't interested in supporting them. Sorry for negative post but I'm worried that IZ will lose to SK and BS and skip Worlds.
And their GOEs and PCS are so unfair comparing to CL and CB scores. I don't like that!

 

[Alba]

I'm worried about IZ... With their base value
they could easily lead in SD but instead got super low GOEs and low PCS. I'm afraid it means that Fed isn't interested in supporting them. Sorry for negative post but I'm worried that IZ will lose to SK and BS and skip Worlds.
And their GOEs and PCS are so unfair comparing to CL and CB scores. I don't like that!

Well, if that will be the case the good news is that we can finally stop worry and maybe start enjoy them a bit?

 

[Marta25]

Well, if that will be the case the good news is that we can finally stop worry and maybe start enjoy them a bit?

That`s one way to see it.

I actually enjoyed their performance very much, just not the score

 

[bramweld]

I'm worried about IZ... With their base value
they could easily lead in SD but instead got super low GOEs and low PCS. I'm afraid it means that Fed isn't interested in supporting them. Sorry for negative post but I'm worried that IZ will lose to SK and BS and skip Worlds.
And their GOEs and PCS are so unfair comparing to CL and CB scores. I don't like that!

Not really, its a valid point. But often times as we've said before some judges like to save room for the top teams. What is telling is that there is less than three points between first and third.

These scores for I/Z in present company is good. Let them improve with this dance. It may not be everyone's cup of tea but it does have its charm it just has to be skated more freely and confidently and this will take time. I also especially love the shapes they make in close hold, in particular in the beginning of the dance, I hope they do more of that going forward.

 

[Kitt]

Let's hope their free dance blasts everyone out of the water tomorrow - I'm looking at you, C/L and C/B!

 

[Alba]

That`s one way to see it.

I actually enjoyed their performance very much, just not the score

Me too.

Seriously though, as much as I think the scores were a total joke today, and I was expecting much more with a clean skate, I believe that panicking and being negative about their future, even, it's not justified.

 

[uhh]

I'm worried about IZ... With their base value
they could easily lead in SD but instead got super low GOEs and low PCS. I'm afraid it means that Fed isn't interested in supporting them. Sorry for negative post but I'm worried that IZ will lose to SK and BS and skip Worlds.
And their GOEs and PCS are so unfair comparing to CL and CB scores. I don't like that!

Yeah, this is my main concern. They had a BV equal to any of the other teams that have come out on top so far on the GP, and even higher than the Shibs & S/K. But they're losing 1 - 2 points overall on GOE, and I can't explain why if you are simply looking at the quality of the elements. They had a slight bobble on the lift and the RW could be smoother, but you can find the same little niggles in all dances at this point of the season, and none of the other major contenders have been punished in the same way. So I have to look outside the elements and consider:

1) The judges were leaving room for other skaters, knowing that there were still two world medallist teams to come (but then, how did S/K skating first at Skate America gain enough GOE to score higher in TES overall, overcoming I/Z's BV advantage?)
2) Other teams have coaches who are working the politiks better than Kustarova (possible, especially Igor & Marina teams)
3) The judges don't like the program, which makes them less inclined to reward the elements, no matter how well they are done (From the scores, this seems to be a factor for some of the judges, they just didn't get what I/Z were trying to do)
4) They aren't being seen as Russian no 1 - either it's a 3 way shoot out with S/K & B/S, or the federation have decided already & it's not I/Z (but why would they ditch their national champions who have only improved over the summer?)
5) This was just a tough panel (but then, why did C/L get the GOE reward & C/B the PCS cushion)

I hope it's mostly 5 & a bit of 3, because that can be fixed. If it's 2 or 4, then there are bigger problems.

 

[bramweld]

Me too.

Seriously though, as much as I think the scores were a total joke today, and I was expecting much more with a clean skate, I believe that panicking and being negative about their future, even, it's not justified.

Hey I can't tell you how many times I've enjoyed re-watching their dance. And note to Elena she was just absolutely gorgeous today. I really like their costumes contrary to many. It has this really cool modern retro vibe if that makes sense, totally diggin Rus' suit. This dance just needs milage.

 

[Marta25]

Yeah, this is my main concern. They had a BV equal to any of the other teams that have come out on top so far on the GP, and even higher than the Shibs & S/K. But they're losing 1 - 2 points overall on GOE, and I can't explain why if you are simply looking at the quality of the elements. They had a slight bobble on the lift and the RW could be smoother, but you can find the same little niggles in all dances at this point of the season, and none of the other major contenders have been punished in the same way. So I have to look outside the elements and consider:

1) The judges were leaving room for other skaters, knowing that there were still two world medallist teams to come (but then, how did S/K skating first at Skate America gain enough GOE to score higher in TES overall, overcoming I/Z's BV advantage?)
2) Other teams have coaches who are working the politiks better than Kustarova (possible, especially Igor & Marina teams)
3) The judges don't like the program, which makes them less inclined to reward the elements, no matter how well they are done (From the scores, this seems to be a factor for some of the judges, they just didn't get what I/Z were trying to do)
4) They aren't being seen as Russian no 1 - either it's a 3 way shoot out with S/K & B/S, or the federation have decided already & it's not I/Z (but why would they ditch their national champions who have only improved over the summer?)
5) This was just a tough panel (but then, why did C/L get the GOE reward & C/B the PCS cushion)

I hope it's mostly 5 & a bit of 3, because that can be fixed. If it's 2 or 4, then there are bigger problems.

Let`s say this panel didn`t like I/Z`s approach to the waltz. If they weren`t considered as Russian #1, shouldn`t their PCS be much lower than S/K´s or B/S`s ? I/Z beat both of them in the IT mark and beat S/K also in PE and CC. I don`t think the international judges are really sure who is being pushed as #1 in Russia, which explains the very close PCS.

I don`t know what happened with their GOE. I remember that last year they got mediocre GOE at COC, which increased a lot at COR and stayed on that level or even improved for the rest of the season.

 

[tulosai]

Let`s say this panel didn`t like I/Z`s approach to the waltz. If they weren`t considered as Russian #1, shouldn`t their PCS be much lower than S/K´s or B/S`s ? I/Z beat both of them in the IT mark and beat S/K also in PE and CC. I don`t think the international judges are really sure who is being pushed as #1 in Russia, which explains the very close PCS.

I don`t know what happened with their GOE. I remember that last year they got mediocre GOE at COC, which increased a lot at COR and stayed on that level or even improved for the rest of the season.

I don't think Russia is pushing anyone right now honestly, I think they are letting them fight it out game of thrones style, and will then push whoever seems to come out on top. However this burden seems too much for the judges to bear, and they appear to be scoring everyone similarly praying that someday soon the federation will give them a sign

 

[uhh]

I don't think Russia is pushing anyone right now honestly, I think they are letting them fight it out game of thrones style, and will then push whoever seems to come out on top. However this burden seems too much for the judges to bear, and they appear to be scoring everyone similarly praying that someday soon the federation will give them a sign

Yeah, I think that's where we are right now. If B/S were considered no. 1 they'd have got a higher score in the FD at SC, and if I/Z were clearly no.1, the judges would have been kinder with their GOE & PCS today. The only team that I think the judges have been generous to is S/K, & they were at SA which is usually "nicer" & up against a weaker field so you usually see the judges going a bit higher with the better teams, it's like they go "oh thank GOD, someone who knows what an edge is, have all the marks!".

 

[Abraxis12345]

1. IZ's non-traditional waltz still gained the same TES and PCS as BS and SK's traditional waltzes. I don't think the judges didn't know what to expect from say Nazarova and Nikitin or the Danes. Those pairs have been doing the B's and judges do watch practices so they have an idea where everyone belongs.

2. Do you notice that Kustarova and Alexeeva, like Shpilband, Fusar-Poli, and Zhulin, always have random teams in their groups? Like does Shpilband really need to coach Rabe/Koleto and why does Kustarova still bother with Shtork and Rand? That's pretty much how Shpilband makes friends with the judges, and the other coaches are no different.

3. And speaking about number two, let's not forget who was actually Klimova and Ponomarenko's coach in 1992. Even TAT pretty much admits it was her long time assistant who did all the work that year... And Ponomarenko certainly doesn't forget.

 

[Alba]

Dear me, they look so worried. How will they skate tomorrow? Apparently they also have this bizzarre idea that they take the risk because they are young and have the time to take risks. :dumb:

 

[tulosai]

Dear me, they look so worried. How will they skate tomorrow? Apparently they also have this bizzarre idea that they take the risk because they are young and have the time to take risks. :dumb:

Aw, beautiful picture!

 

[solani]

Dear me, they look so worried. How will they skate tomorrow? Apparently they also have this bizzarre idea that they take the risk because they are young and have the time to take risks. :dumb:

Or they don't take enough risks. Like those leather pants I want for Ruslan. Maybe the judges would appreciate that.

 

[Alba]

Or they don't take enough risks. Like those leather pants I want for Ruslan. Maybe the judges would appreciate that.

:rofl2:I certainly would. :hap93: