A fair way to pick GPF finalists?

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

That would probably make something like this for GPF:

12-13 men
14-15 ladies
12 pairs
10 dance

Which is actually quite a lot of people.

With all the confusion I thought wouldn't it be easier to change the format to keep something like this from happening again. I figured no one would go for or like this idea but since people have mentioned that this was the way it used to be and someone qualified with only one event and so they wanted to change it, do this instead:
1) All medalists potentially advance to Grand Prix Final
2) To advance to Final medalists must have competed in two GP events
3) To advance medalists must have finished 6th or higher in singles and 5th or higher in pairs/dance (that's half the field, right?)

I have clearly been thinking about this for far too long

 

[moriel]

With all the confusion I thought wouldn't it be easier to change the format to keep something like this from happening again. I figured no one would go for or like this idea but since people have mentioned that this was the way it used to be and someone qualified with only one event and so they wanted to change it, do this instead:
1) All medalists potentially advance to Grand Prix Final
2) To advance to Final medalists must have competed in two GP events
3) To advance medalists must have finished 6th or higher in singles and 5th or higher in pairs/dance (that's half the field, right?)

I have clearly been thinking about this for far too long

I guess that will end up being a question of money, pretty much adding 1 or most likely 2 competition days to GPF etc, and then the feds will not want to pay for that really, they would rather just say "screw those skaters, lets just count SP and dont bother, they catch up next season / worlds / europeans-4cc"

 

[GF2445]

I'm fine with top 8 in each discipline.
I just want more figure skating on TV!!!!

 

[BravesSkateFan]

I say they use only the highest scoring event from each skater to determine the standings. This would allow for fair ranking, allow for tie breakers, and eliminate the need to hold a free skate, increase the number of skaters in the final or use scores from a partial competition.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

With all the confusion I thought wouldn't it be easier to change the format to keep something like this from happening again. I figured no one would go for or like this idea but since people have mentioned that this was the way it used to be and someone qualified with only one event and so they wanted to change it, do this instead:
1) All medalists potentially advance to Grand Prix Final
2) To advance to Final medalists must have competed in two GP events
3) To advance medalists must have finished 6th or higher in singles and 5th or higher in pairs/dance (that's half the field, right?)

I have clearly been thinking about this for far too long

#3 is redundant if you are a medalist you are already 6th or higher.

 

[Mathman]

With all the confusion I thought wouldn't it be easier to change the format to keep something like this from happening again. I figured no one would go for or like this idea but since people have mentioned that this was the way it used to be and someone qualified with only one event and so they wanted to change it, do this instead:

1) All medalists potentially advance to Grand Prix Final…

IIRC the original idea was that all first place winners would automatically be invited to the GP Final, and then if there were any places left over, second place winners would be invited, etc., until you had 6. (Actually, the first GP final had 6 men, 7 ladies, 4 pairs and 4 dance.)

So for instance in ladies in the inaugural season (1995-96) it went like this. (There were only five events.)

Kwan (1st at Skate America, 1st at Skate Canada, 1st ta Nations Cup)
Choinard (1st at Trophee Lalique)
Chen (1st at NHK)

Now we go to second places.

Yokoya (2nd at Skate America, 2nd at NHK)
Butyrskaya (2nd at Nations Cup)

Because of duplications we still only have 5 different skaters. (Chen got 2nd at Skate America and 2nd at Trophee Lalique, but she was already in.) So we go to thirds.

Slutskaya (3rd at Skate America)
Markova (3rd at NHK)

So that's 7.

Bonaly also should have qualified with 3rd at Lalique, but for some reason she did not compete in the finals.)

All in all, not a bad system.

 

[Mathman]

Actually, the more I think about it...

The method just described would solve all of our problems. Just toss out TEB altogether. No one really has a gripe.

Aaron, Chan and Fernandez are automatically in. Since there can't be 6 different winners (only five events) second placers Uno, Hanyu and Jin are in. Any of a bunch of people can still join them by winning or placing second at the last two events.

Hubbell and Donohue will be disappointed, but if they want to go to the finals they can skate for it against Shibs and Bobrova & Soloviev at NHK. :yes:

 

[GF2445]

So i suppose we are not getting news today.
Ok wait for tomorrow.

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

#3 is redundant if you are a medalist you are already 6th or higher.

I just realized I forgot to mention a couple of key words :in their other event be 6th or higher ( 5th for the pairs) to prevent someone from placing 3rd in one and 11th in the other and advancing to the final, for example. Sorry, I should have read my post more carefully.

 

[sc8]

Y'know, Mathman, this is a really simple, but effective solution. I was thinking it be best to err on the side of generosity and this is generous solution that would likely include more than the six slots reserved for GP Finalists. My solution was similar in that I was thinking it would be good to invite any skater/team placing first or second at one of the Grand Prix and also invite first and second from SP at Bompard. This would save any skaters who did not perform well in Bompard's short, because Chan and Tukt already scored in top 2 at another GP, thereby qualifying for the GP Finals under my idea. Since two third place podium finishes do not guarantee a GP Final slot, in fact it rarely qualifies as skater or team, not extending beyond top 2 placement invites really doesn't take anything away from a skater who places third in two events as they would likely not make the GP Final anyhow with 22 points. In any event, I think they SHOULD award the prize money to the skaters based on the SP placements since this money makes significant differences in the ability to afford the sport for some skaters. But, to eliminate the placement-based point system for this year for something much simpler and more generous is probably the best solution rather than coming up with a plan to somehow only select six skaters/teams. I don't see a point system working when 12 in each discipline would not have scores from a second event (if they were scheduled for two).

 

[Marin]

https://twitter.com/ISU_Figure/status/666900491889205249 I don't know what to feel about this tweet :scratch3:

 

[tulosai]

https://twitter.com/ISU_Figure/status/666900491889205249 I don't know what to feel about this tweet :scratch3:

I honestly don't think there is any deep meaning behind it, probably something they added to a list of motivational quotes to post months ago and are finally getting around to posting...

 

[BravesSkateFan]

I just realized I forgot to mention a couple of key words :in their other event be 6th or higher ( 5th for the pairs) to prevent someone from placing 3rd in one and 11th in the other and advancing to the final, for example. Sorry, I should have read my post more carefully.

That makes sense now

 

[tulosai]

The silence about this is becoming deafening... surely they aren't really going to delay making a decision again today?

 

[LRK]

The silence about this is becoming deafening... surely they aren't really going to delay making a decision again today?

I too am wondering at the delay in making/announcing a decision. It would be nice to know, and I'm sure the skaters are mildly curious about it as well... How long do they mean to string it out?

 

[StitchMonkey]

The delay does not shock me. My guess is a lot of points have been raised that were not thought of on Friday... they likely are still trying to figure out what to do. They also likely feel like any plan they come up with is somewhat trying to predict what will happen in the future... so they likely are very confused.

My guess is that there is some different opinions and some people are not budging.... looking how little we can agree? Also it is a global issue. They may have to discuss this with people awake... wait 12 hours discuss it with people awake... wait 12 hours... and so on and so forth. It may just take time to discuss anything.

 

[HanDomi]

I don't get what they are discussing so long. They should have already did final results from sp results two days ago.

Why they haven't done that ? because federations are pushing on them to allow skaters who bombed in SP to go to GPF or they will be sending protests all over the place.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I don't get what they are discussing so long. They should have already did final results from sp results two days ago.

Why they haven't done that ? because federations are pushing on them to allow skaters who bombed in SP to go to GPF or they will be sending protests all over the place.

Even this forum is rather divided on that and how it should be implemented.... not hard to imagine TPTB are similarly divided. Not everyone agrees using the SP results is the answer.

 

[YesWay]

I don't get what they are discussing so long. They should have already did final results from sp results two days ago.

Why they haven't done that ? because federations are pushing on them to allow skaters who bombed in SP to go to GPF or they will be sending protests all over the place.

My theory:

I don't imagine it's going to be quick or easy... they not only have to come up with a reasoned and defensible "result", but also work it into the system of tie-breakers for reaching the final...

...and they must bear in mind that whatever they decide will set a Precident, which might even end up being written into the rules for any future events that unexpectedly have to be cancelled at short notice.

So they may also be considering rules for stuff beyond what they need for TEB "here and now"... governing what to do if eg. an event is cancelled before the SP starts, or mid way through the SP, or after the SP but mid-way through the free skate, or a whole bunch of other stuff...

Actually I'll be mildly surprised if they are able to sort it all out by the end of today...

 

[moriel]

I don't get what they are discussing so long. They should have already did final results from sp results two days ago.

Why they haven't done that ? because federations are pushing on them to allow skaters who bombed in SP to go to GPF or they will be sending protests all over the place.

Whats wrong about that? The feds have this right, as we could as well take out of GPF ALL skaters who bombed their SP, why not? We should maybe even take out from GPF all skaters who bombed anything. We should take out Gracie because she popped a jump - she should have skated perfectly always. Shoma Uno bombed his SP in Skate America - why should he be in GPF? He bombed his SP, he didnt skate to his best.
As you said yourself, they should have been ready all time.

Why so much hate agains people who bombed their SP in TEB? Why should they suffer why everybody else had a chance to redeem from a lame SP?
What is so wrong about comensating it somehow?