Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[tvuckic16]

I'm not pessimistic at all about their season right now. I might be missing something and blissfully unaware of but I think they have absolutely everything to make the team for Euros and Worlds. However, I am disturbed with some of their GoE's both in CoC&CoR, and the PCS and I don't know what to think about it. Do they have to change the SD? Is that all the problem? Do they have time? Do judges like Frida? Was it really about the mistake? I even asked Pedrazzini in private too. I'm saying this because it's not like he told me any secret. In fact apparently he replied while commenting the gala but I don't watch the Gala so he got back to me in PM, but it didn't help solve the puzzle. :noshake: I guess we have to wait till RN but most importantly Euros. The only thing I know for sure right now is that I got the tickets.

You bring up some good points and good questions. I assume IZ are doing the same and addressing things accordingly. All teams have received feedback I assume. I have the same questions and I am not pessimistic. I think IZ can address a number of concerns without reworking things too much. They will obviously be on the European team....getting on the World Team will be a fight (let's see how BS do at NHK)...so...let the work begin

 

[tulosai]

You bring up some good points and good questions. I assume IZ are doing the same and addressing things accordingly. All teams have received feedback I assume. I have the same questions and I am not pessimistic. I think IZ can address a number of concerns without reworking things too much. They will obviously be on the European team....getting on the World Team will be a fight (let's see how BS do at NHK)...so...let the work begin

I think if B/S can finish second this weekend, they probably go into Nationals as Russia's #1 by a narrow margin, but I still honestly think all 3 of the top teams (S/K, I/Z, and B/S) are close. What has mostly held Ruslena back in the early part of this season I think is first and foremost that they haven't been able to skate clean, and second that it is pretty clear the judges are not 'feeling' the SD (and possibly unfortunately also the FD). At this point I don't think they can do much about the judges not feeling the programs, but they definitely can do something about the fact that they haven't been skating clean. It may be easier said than done, but if they can fix that and start going really clean, I think they are genuinely right back in the fight.

It's possible this just isn't going to be their year and they'll sit our Worlds, but that's not the end of the world. Next year and the year after that are the truly important ones (next year to build a reputation for the Olympics, and the next year obviously being the actual Olympic year), so if this year turns out to have been a 'building' one, that is genuinely not the end of the world and 100% okay. But I don't think we should count I/Z out yet for this year, either.

 

[Alba]

One would hope so. But in the end, as I said before it doesn't really matter.

Well, I know for example that he checked on IZ this summer, like I'm sure he checked on others as well. He even helped SK with the step seq. in summer. That's his job and speaking with a coach is nothing wrong. In fact, as tulosai mentioned all the coaches should seek him out to speak to him. Not only with him but also with various specialists, and the judges, and other officials. Coaches do speak with tech.panel and judges in competition. Zhulin was speaking to Samokhin for example in CoR. Hell, I wrote to Pedrazzini asking about IZ programs. That's part of the coaches job also. Not just teaching levels.

I agree. To be honest something I don't like about this thread is the frequency with which 'conspiracy theories' pop up, when in reality, there are usually simpler and more realistic explanations which, because they are the obvious explanation, are probably the right one until we start seeing actual, consistent evidence to the contrary.

Right but in all honesty it doesn't help when they don't get the PCS and the haters (even fans which is worse) start spreading out all kind of rumors about them and their fate on various forums. I get why a genuine fan might be concerned and start being suspicious about everything.

 

[Alba]

You bring up some good points and good questions. I assume IZ are doing the same and addressing things accordingly. All teams have received feedback I assume. I have the same questions and I am not pessimistic. I think IZ can address a number of concerns without reworking things too much. They will obviously be on the European team....getting on the World Team will be a fight (let's see how BS do at NHK)...so...let the work begin

Obviously Worlds is gonna be much more difficult but it will depend very much from the Europeans. So I think Euros is gonna be the first important competition for IZ this season. Assuming they do well in RN of course, but they don't need to be 1st there. Although the aim should be for the gold even at Nationals.

 

[tvuckic16]

I think if B/S can finish second this weekend, they probably go into Nationals as Russia's #1 by a narrow margin, but I still honestly think all 3 of the top teams (S/K, I/Z, and B/S) are close. What has mostly held Ruslena back in the early part of this season I think is first and foremost that they haven't been able to skate clean, and second that it is pretty clear the judges are not 'feeling' the SD (and possibly unfortunately also the FD). At this point I don't think they can do much about the judges not feeling the programs, but they definitely can do something about the fact that they haven't been skating clean. It may be easier said than done, but if they can fix that and start going really clean, I think they are genuinely right back in the fight.

It's possible this just isn't going to be their year and they'll sit our Worlds, but that's not the end of the world. Next year and the year after that are the truly important ones (next year to build a reputation for the Olympics, and the next year obviously being the actual Olympic year), so if this year turns out to have been a 'building' one, that is genuinely not the end of the world and 100% okay. But I don't think we should count I/Z out yet for this year, either.

I agree. I think all 3 teams are very close. I also think judges are not loving the programs. So, the best thing they can do is address some of the judge's concerns, work hard and skate clean. I agree also that if by some chance they don't make it to Worlds it is not the worst thing ever. We'll just have to see how the competitions go. There is also still some time to work on things by RN. So, like I said, let the work begin.

 

[bramweld]

https://www.instagram.com/p/-eKV2kx9dj/?taken-by=mihail_sharov

Cool photo! I hope the midnight blues is a better fit for them next year.

 

[Marta25]

I don`t agree that the judges don`t like Frida. In China they received with a shaky skate the highest PCS of any Russian team up to that point. Their PCS were also higher than the Shibs`and G/P`s PCS at their respective GPS. Judges love consistency, it`s IMO one of the reasons behind D/W`s and C/B`s fast success. Another example, which doesn`t come from ice dance is Carolina Kostner. She had some spectacular meltdowns in the 2008/2009 and 2009/2010 seasons, the kind of meltdowns where I wanted to scratch my eyes out after she was done. During those years she was sometimes low balled on PCS even when she skated well, because she had to regain the judges`trust. She came back after an injury at Euros 2011 and from that competition onwards she never missed one single podium.

With that I`m saying that IMO the key for I/Z is to become consistent. The judges like them, they already showed that last season, but they have to find it in them to skate clean.

Now, the SD is a whole other story. The judges are not responding well to it, so the question here is, should they keep it and concentrate on polishing it or come with a new more classical SD to Nationals.

 

[bramweld]

My gut feeling is just try to be as clean as a whistle.

 

[tvuckic16]

Skate clean, I agree. Nothing they can do about personal tastes, but skating clean they can absolutely do something about that. Focus on that.

 

[Tex]

This blog always has great things to say about Elena and Ruslan. They were in agreement that the FD was underscored http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/48cupsoftea/862887.html.

 

[bramweld]

Their actual score was 99.54, the one point deduction was a mistake. I don't know whether to be mad or happy.

 

[Tex]

The dedication of Ruslena fans at RC was pretty impressive with all the banners and even the fans that styled their hair like Frida and wore Frida t-shirts too. Way to impress and show your support for Elena and Ruslan.:thumbsup:

With their SD, I still think they need to change their costumes to something that fits the waltz and march music but has a rock chic edge to it. They need costumes that can help tell/add to their story in the SD because I think one reason people don’t like their SD is because they don’t understand what it’s about like the other SDs. For instance, Weaver/Poje have these beautiful, gorgeous costumes that give you an idea of what the story is (a lady and a count/prince at a grand ball) before the music even starts. Elena mentioned that she didn’t want to do a princess/prince theme and chose a different approach with rock music, so they should pick costumes to depict this and meld both parts of their SD music. Wasn’t there an interview in which Elena said something like the SD is about a guy and a girl at a party with their family, and when their family leaves and the music gets to the WWRY part and the real party starts I think maybe they could approach it different. My interpretation on the dance (based on the lyrics of the song) is more like two people looking for love, they find each other, are set free of their loneliness, and then are ready to rock the word with their awesomeness and become everyone’s OTP If this SD was on the ballroom floor like DWTS, I would say put in a costume change (e.g. like when a female dancer tears away their long skirt and under is a short-sassy costume or the guy takes off his jacket/shirt, or even how Alexa and Bindi on DWTS in their Chicago routine this season converted their black body suit to a flapper dress) when the STL transitions to the WWRY part, but ice dance has rules and this is a no-go. They just need to do whatever they can to get their story across since it’s something the judges haven’t seen before. One of the American dance teams posted a video on Youtube earlier in the season to explain what their free dance is about this season which I really liked (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCGpgftinHw ), so maybe Elena and Ruslan could try something like this for both programs. You never know if a judge or Figure skating commentator might watch and finally get enlightened. Case in point, one of the British Commentators said that he didn’t get parts of the FD because Elena and Ruslan were smiling; he stated that he watched the movie Frida, but he didn’t see how that fit. I was like, geez, Frida did have some fun, love, and light in her life so maybe that’s where the smiles come into play. The British commentators for the most part have really good constructive criticism for teams as well as compliments.

They still need more short-crisp and staccato movements and hard hitting movements (like in some hip-hop dances) at the beginning g of WWRY. Elena’s arm movements are too fluid where Ruslan has got it right IMO. I noticed that at the beginning of WWRY Ruslan gets a little far from Elena when they both turn and he has to skip/hop to get closer to her. He didn’t do this at the test skates and for me it looked better without the extra hop, so I hope he works on not creating so much distance that he has to do the hop. It just makes it look a little messy in that part IMO.

Someone posted a video of the comparison scoring segments of the FDs of S/K and I/Z. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXGBE9FCias It helped me to see little things that I/Z can work on like more ice coverage in lifts and faster rotations in the spin and rotational lift, so I hope I/Z and their coaches do a little cross comparison of other teams to see how they can get some better GOEs. I hope they also work more matching hand/arm/leg feet positons. They are probably working the butts off as we speak to make improvements in both programs.

Their Gala performance and RC was even more sultry and seductive in the beginning and ending parts than at CoC. Ruslan impressed be so much with his facial expressions like the hypnotized look he had when the music was at “I put a spell on you” and then the flirty look he had in the last part of the routine. The Blues SD next season is going to fit them really well; they’re going to melt hearts and the ice.

To end my ridiculously long post, I wanted to share this song that reminds me of Elena and Ruslan this season with their programs. The song is “Nine People’s Favorite Things” from the off Broadway musical [title of show]. Below are some of the lyrics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHCnL13P5Y4

We can either follow our instinct
Or take advice from every joker
We can either be distinct
Or wind up merely mediocre
But not me
Not me
When we set out to write this musical
We said we'd write a show that we wanna see
We knew we'd never please everyone
Remember that day at Gristedes
You said to me
You said to me

I'd rather be nine people's favorite thing
Than a hundred people's ninth favorite thing
Nine peoples favorite thing
Than a hundred people's ninth favorite thing

 

[tvuckic16]

Their actual score was 99.54, the one point deduction was a mistake. I don't know whether to be mad or happy.

I don't think it matters. 99.54 would not have been enough to change the final order. Third place scored a 103. Maybe IZ would have scored 103 had they not made a mistake in the SD....not sure. Either way, I don't think IZ would have beaten CL.

Edit: @Tex - that video comparison of scoring for the two teams was extremely useful. I learned a lot and I agree. Thanks!!

 

[Alba]

I don't think it matters. 99.54 would not have been enough to change the final order.

It would've been enough to put them in 4rth place overall instead of 5th, behind G&F, and they would've got 9 points from COR instead of 7, thus 20 overall in the GP standings instead of 18. It would not have changed much maybe but you have to fight for each point. This is something that coaches should have done immediately, right within the 30 minutes time as per regulation.

 

[uhh]

It also would have given them more ranking points & prize money. Ugh that whole weekend was a disaster!

On the plus side, my maths was wrong & they are now actually 12th in the World Standings. 5th out of the European couples and unless Nazarova/Nikitin or Testa/Czolley win a Challenger or senior B over the next month (and I don't know if they are entered for anything) it's enough to be in the last warm up group for Euros.

 

[tulosai]

It would've been enough to put them in 4rth place overall instead of 5th, behind G&F, and they would've got 9 points from COR instead of 7, thus 20 overall in the GP standings instead of 18. It would not have changed much maybe but you have to fight for each point. This is something that coaches should have done immediately, right within the 30 minutes time as per regulation.

I agree, this upsets me that nothing was done. IMO it does matter. It's too late now so no use wasting much energy on it but still, very disappointing.

 

[cathlen]

It also would have given them more ranking points & prize money. Ugh that whole weekend was a disaster!

On the plus side, my maths was wrong & they are now actually 12th in the World Standings. 5th out of the European couples and unless Nazarova/Nikitin or Testa/Czolley win a Challenger or senior B over the next month (and I don't know if they are entered for anything) it's enough to be in the last warm up group for Euros.

Federica Testa/Csolley compete at Warsaw Cup & Nazarova/Nikitin at Golden Spin bu they have slim chances of winning, especially the Ukrains with quite tough field.

 

[bramweld]

I agree, this upsets me that nothing was done. IMO it does matter. It's too late now so no use wasting much energy on it but still, very disappointing.

I remember Kustarova sitting there mumbling in the K&C that there was no overexposure. Why didn't she immediately fight for her team only she knows. But given the obvious ramifications we've just pointed out I hope they realize they need to fight for their pair more. Zhulin would have made a real stink over these scores for his own students. The Russian Federation IMHO, is trying to create a clear number one, but I have a feeling come the end of NHK it will all look quite comical. Russian Nationals will be won by the team with nerves of steel. I hope that will be I/Z.

 

[Alba]

I remember Kustarova sitting there mumbling in the K&C that there was no overexposure. Why didn't she immediately fight for her team only she knows.

I heard they wanted to but it was a bit too late when they checked the video.

 

[bramweld]

I heard they wanted to but it was a bit too late when they checked the video.

So now that means they must stand at the boards themselves with stopwatches that they can prove for themselves at their own home GP that their students were not robbed of scores? Oh snap!!