Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[Lys]

Want to see something stupid and why I really don't think he'll go for 4 quads this season? Adding a 4th quad means he has to take out 2 triples of the maximum number he could do. If he basically goes with 4Lo, 4S, 4T, 4T3T*, 3A*, 3A1/2Lo3S*, 3F*, 3Lz* he gets a jump BV of 86.85. Compared to the maxed out 3 quad LP that gives him... a whopping +1.92 in BV. It's not really worth the way higher risk.

I think you are missing a combo here
But if he tags a 2T somewhere it's just 1,3 (1,43 if in second half) points more, not a whole lot. Of course, he could also have the crazy idea to tag a 3Lo to his 3A, but I doubt we will see anything like this in this season.
Next one, if he's healthy and 4Lo behaves, who knows...

 

[gsyzf]

I think you are missing a combo here
But if he tags a 2T somewhere it's just 1,3 (1,43 if in second half) points more, not a whole lot. Of course, he could also have the crazy idea to tag a 3Lo to his 3A, but I doubt we will see anything like this in this season.
Next one, if he's healthy and 4Lo behaves, who knows...

I think she meant

4Lo, 4S, 4T, 4T3T*, 3A2T*, 3A1/2Lo3S*, 3F*, 3Lz*

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I think you are missing a combo here
But if he tags a 2T somewhere it's just 1,3 (1,43 if in second half) points more, not a whole lot. Of course, he could also have the crazy idea to tag a 3Lo to his 3A, but I doubt we will see anything like this in this season.
Next one, if he's healthy and 4Lo behaves, who knows...

I meant what gsyzf just said above - I just edited it

And while I forgot to write the 2T down, it's included in the BV, the numbers don't change.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

He is now squeezing his two year plan in 1 year. I don't think he will go for 4 quads this season. But I think he may very likely go for 4 quads next season. If he repeats 4T and 3A in a 4 quad LP, the increase in BV is not very big (around 2 points), but it's a stepping stone for a 4 quad LP with 4 different types of quads. A LP with 4 different types of quads will give him over 8 points increase in BV compared to the maxed out 3 quad LP. I don't think he is practicing 4Lz for no reason.

Yes, 4 quads makes sense when it's 4 different ones. But for now, I think he'll see how the 4Lo goes next season to see if thinking seriously about the 4Lz is making sense. If the 4Lz isn't coming along in practices (and he only has 2 seasons left), I think he might not go for 4 quads at all.

 

[gsyzf]

Yes, 4 quads makes sense when it's 4 different ones. But for now, I think he'll see how the 4Lo goes next season to see if thinking seriously about the 4Lz is making sense. If the 4Lz isn't coming along in practices (and he only has 2 seasons left), I think he might not go for 4 quads at all.

I think he may still go for 4 quads even if his 4Lz is not very successful in practice. A 4 quad LP with 2x4t still gives a higher BV than a maxed out 3 quad LP. If he has 2 seasons to practice a 4 quad layout, he will be more consistent with the layout and he is more likely to score higher with a 4-quad LP than a 3-quad LP. Also, I'm not sure if he wants to get stuck on a 3-quad LP and not make further improvement in the next two years.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I think he may still go for 4 quads even if his 4Lz is not very successful in practice. A 4 quad LP with 2x4t still gives a higher BV than a maxed out 3 quad LP. If he has 2 seasons to practice a 4 quad layout, he will be more consistent with the layout and he is more likely to score higher with a 4-quad LP than a 3-quad LP. Also, I'm not sure if he wants to get stuck on a 3-quad LP and not make further improvement in the next two years.

Yes he might, but it's not as if 3 different quads wasn't ambitious enough. He only has 2 seasons left for the Olympics, and that is actually not a lot of time. It took his 4S longer than that to get stable. It will all come down to how his practices and competitions go, but he has so much other stuff he wants to work on - his step sequences and therefor his SS, he wants to develop further artistically, and then already the 4Lo. IMO, the biggest challenge for next season is to find 2 programs that can live up to Chopin and Seimei... especially Seimei. Everything is going very well right now (even if his nationals performances were hindered by fatigue), but I'm sure there will also be times again when he'll struggle and won't be able to up the ante every 3rd competition.

 

[msteach3]

Yuzu :cool14:

Getting handsomer by the minute!

That costume fit him like a glove

He seems to have filled out quite nicely : since looking thin at the beginning of the season.

 

[jobori1989]

I read in The Japan Times that Yuzu is thinking of adding the 4Lo into the program to be ready for the WC. I think this is a bad idea because first he doesn't need to, he can still win if he does all the other elements perfectly, second the 4Lo needs a lot of speed going into the jump and consequently cannot be added into the second half, and third the most important role of performing: never give everything you have in one performance unless it is your last! always keep the audience and the fans wanting and expecting more.

 

[HanDomi]

I read in The Japan Times that Yuzu is thinking of adding the 4Lo into the program to be ready for the WC. I think this is a bad idea because first he doesn't need to, he can still win if he does all the other elements perfectly, second the 4Lo needs a lot of speed going into the jump and consequently cannot be added into the second half, and third the most important role of performing: never give everything you have in one performance unless it is your last! always keep the audience and the fans wanting and expecting more.

If he is going to add it for sure it's going to be first or 2nd jump. From what he told his quad loop and quad salchow has something similar together, so maybe 4S would be good warm up for quad loop.
I think if he feels he can do it go for it. I guess he wants to be the first one to land it in competition

 

[gsyzf]

If he is going to add it for sure it's going to be first or 2nd jump. From what he told his quad loop and quad salchow has something similar together, so maybe 4S would be good warm up for quad loop.
I think if he feels he can do it go for it. I guess he wants to be the first one to land it in competition

Adding the 4Lo also means if he falls on the 4T in the second half, he won't get the deduction for not doing the 4T in combination. He can also do 3A3T instead of 3A2T. There are a lot of benefits for including the 4Lo actually.

 

[jobori1989]

If he is going to add it for sure it's going to be first or 2nd jump. From what he told his quad loop and quad salchow has something similar together, so maybe 4S would be good warm up for quad loop.
I think if he feels he can do it go for it. I guess he wants to be the first one to land it in competition

Its too soon! if he really wants it to be special I think he should wait for next season or even the Olympic season.

 

[HanDomi]

Its too soon! if he really wants it to be special I think he should wait for next season or even the Olympic season.

But will this be special if someone before him will land quad loop first ?

 

[wookchub]

“Obviously I want to win (at the world championships) but before that I want to perform well like I did at the NHK Trophy and Grand Prix Final.”

I know it's hard to tell from translations and everything, but from the sentence I quoted above I got the feeling that Yuzuru wouldn't risk Worlds. Like he'll practice 4Lo and see how steady it is, but I think his overall wish is to win definitively and adding a 4Lo could make that very difficult. I'm all for it if he can land it but if it's going to be hit and miss then I'd much rather he saves it for next season.

 

[jobori1989]

“Obviously I want to win (at the world championships) but before that I want to perform well like I did at the NHK Trophy and Grand Prix Final.”

I know it's hard to tell from translations and everything, but from the sentence I quoted above I got the feeling that Yuzuru wouldn't risk Worlds. Like he'll practice 4Lo and see how steady it is, but I think his overall wish is to win definitively and adding a 4Lo could make that very difficult. I'm all for it if he can land it but if it's going to be hit and miss then I'd much rather he saves it for next season.

I agree, performing like NHK and GPF will guarantee a win, the 4Lo is risky and unnecessary!

 

[Lys]

never give everything you have in one performance unless it is your last! always keep the audience and the fans wanting and expecting more.

That would mean 4Lo is the ultimate goal for Yuzuru and I highly doubt it's the case.

Its too soon! if he really wants it to be special I think he should wait for next season or even the Olympic season.

I don't think that makes much sense, tho
I think it's obvious his plan is to have at least three different quads for 2018. To try it in Olympic season would be a folly. And why to wait next season if he feels good enough to get ahead in this one?
Where "getting ahead" is not the correct word, since probably to try three different quads was his plan had last season not been marred by one freaky accident after other.

I agree, performing like NHK and GPF will guarantee a win, the 4Lo is risky and unnecessary!

The problem here is I think he wouldn't be satisfied to just "repeat" NHK and GPF. He's the kind of athlete who wants to improve. Of course he wants to have a performance that can match those two events, but he will also want to actually improve what he can bring on the table, imo.

“Obviously I want to win (at the world championships) but before that I want to perform well like I did at the NHK Trophy and Grand Prix Final.”

I know it's hard to tell from translations and everything, but from the sentence I quoted above I got the feeling that Yuzuru wouldn't risk Worlds. Like he'll practice 4Lo and see how steady it is, but I think his overall wish is to win definitively and adding a 4Lo could make that very difficult. I'm all for it if he can land it but if it's going to be hit and miss then I'd much rather he saves it for next season.

Of course he won't risk it if he doesn't feel he can deliver a good (for his standards) performance with it in it.

But he went from "nah, I tried it, but it's not ready/not good yet" to show us his 4lo right now at GPF (done already without a particulary long preparation and without trying it once in the official practices the days before. Maybe he tried it in gala practice, but for sure he didn't before) and to admit now he'd like to try "new type of quads" at worlds/before the season ends. Quite a step up in less than a month And when Yuzu says something, it usually means that is his plan and he will try his best to see it done.

 

[gsyzf]

I think he is trying to complete his 2 year plan (last season: 3-quad LP and this season: 4Lo) in 1 year. If he does add 4Lo, it means the jump is ready for competitions.

 

[wookchub]

Of course he won't risk it if he doesn't feel he can deliver a good (for his standards) performance with it in it.

But he went from "nah, I tried it, but it's not ready/not good yet" to show us his 4lo right now at GPF (done already without a particulary long preparation and without trying it once in the official practices the days before. Maybe he tried it in gala practice, but for sure he didn't before) and to admit now he'd like to try "new type of quads" at worlds/before the season ends. Quite a step up in less than a month And when Yuzu says something, it usually means that is his plan and he will try his best to see it done.

This is the Yuzuru who was determined to include a 4S which he fell on in nearly every competition for an entire season. An entire olympic season! I have total faith in him, if any skater is gonna do it then I know it will be him. I'm just saying that including it in worlds would be nice but giving it a full summer of practice as reigning world champion could be nicer.

 

[Lys]

This is the Yuzuru who was determined to include a 4S which he fell on in nearly every competition for an entire season. An entire olympic season! I have total faith in him, if any skater is gonna do it then I know it will be him. I'm just saying that including it in worlds would be nice but giving it a full summer of practice as reigning world champion could be nicer.

That's true, but all reports back then were saying his 4s in practice had always been good (actually better than his 4t), so while he didn't manage to land it in competition for a (lot) while, I think it wasn't just folly to drive him (That plus the tactical advantage to have two different quads in his layout).

Hopefully he won't need as much time to master his 4lo in competition, but how he's going to hit in practice is the key now
Anyway, I'm sure he and Brian knows what they are doing. It's pretty clear Boston is his #1 aim at the moment, and he'll do his best to get that crown again

 

[melmel]

But he went from "nah, I tried it, but it's not ready/not good yet" to show us his 4lo right now at GPF (done already without a particulary long preparation and without trying it once in the official practices the days before. Maybe he tried it in gala practice, but for sure he didn't before)

Actually he did tried the 4Lo in practice at the GPF (i think it was on the wednesday, I would need to check my videos again) but I wasn't sure if he did the 4 rotations. It was quite clearly a warmup for the 4S that came after.

 

[melmel]

This is the Yuzuru who was determined to include a 4S which he fell on in nearly every competition for an entire season. An entire olympic season! I have total faith in him, if any skater is gonna do it then I know it will be him. I'm just saying that including it in worlds would be nice but giving it a full summer of practice as reigning world champion could be nicer.

My main reason in my speculation he wouldn't include it for the Worlds is that it would mean reworking the whole choreography surrounding the parts of the progam where he would include it. Sure he did that with Chopin in a matter of weeks but it was a program he was doing for its second season so he already "knew" he program in his muscles. And it's a short program. Reworking Seimei to include the 4Lo AND getting the level 4 step sequence might be a bit much, especially considering how attached he is to the program.

But unlike with Chopin, he doesn't have just weeks but months in front of him so... who knows ? :hap93: