2015-16 State of Russian Ice Dance

[Abraxis12345]

So? Your point is? It's not her job to get her fans in line. She has other things to work on- like next season.

It takes one minute to write a post on their fan group to ask them to delete the petition. If Elena has time to post on Instagram, she has time to ask her fan club not to do things that reflect badly on her.

 

[NAOTMAA]

It's not either Elena or Ruslan's job to babysit a bunch of immature fans. Their responsibility is to skate and represent their country to the best of their ability. Their fine as long as they aren't encouraging the immaturity.

On the other hand it does seem to have spread outside of the internet and become wider knowledge which of course is rather unfortunate and makes it increasingly difficult to ignore. Most people believe that staying silent in the middle of all of it means quietly supporting what their doing even if their not. I'm not sure if its at the point where it has to be directly addressed or not but perhaps its best to cut it at the bud before it gets even worse. I think what coldblueeyes said is probably the best. Thank the fans for their support and quietly ask them to accept the results. Don't dwell on the past but look forward to the bright future. At least by doing that their absolving themselves of being connected to any poor behavior

 

[MK's Winter]

It's not either Elena or Ruslan's job to babysit a bunch of immature fans. Their responsibility is to skate and represent their country to the best of their ability. Their fine as long as they aren't encouraging the immaturity. On the other hand it does seem to have spread outside of the internet and become wider knowledge which of course is rather unfortunate and makes it increasingly difficult to ignore. Most people believe that staying silent in the middle of all of it means quietly supporting what their doing even if their not. I'm not sure if its at the point where it has to be directly addressed or not but perhaps its best to cut it at the bud before it gets even worse. I think what coldblueeyes said is probably the best. Thank the fans for their support and quietly ask them to accept the results. Don't dwell on the past but look forward to the bright future. At least by doing that their absolving themselves of being connected to any poor behavior

I agree. I think they will say something in due time.

 

[Sugarpova]

He was repeating some stuff he read in the news about a possible I/K reunion and the fans totally went after him on Instagram.

what? why? how? when?
I meant I/K reunion?

hmm I didnt think this will escalate any further:eeking:
errr katha's unposted post becomes even more relevant now
generally I feel bad for celebs who have large camps of supporters. Sometimes it can do more harm than good.
I hope I/Z move on & look to the future.

 

[solani]

It might be wise if I/Z would try to stop the petition, but they very likely have noticed it with satisfaction, so they might not do it.
I don't know, sometimes it's good if you keep your mouth shut and sometimes it isn't. You really only know afterwards.

 

[WeakAnkles]

If she can skate through that awful Ghost's program, then she can do anything in life tbh.

That Ghost program is A Camp Masterpiece and fans of the absurd love every single :eeking: :scratch3: and moment of it!

 

[katha]

Cringe that Lakernik slammed it down like that... I'm in the camp that thinks this is doing I/Z no favours. It also gives them a distraction from looking into their own situation and what perhaps needs changing, if they don't want to deal with how their season developed and what mistakes were maybe made, they don't have to.

I also don't think that I/Z, S/B and S/K are being perceived as on the same level by the judges, though. B/S and S/K are seen as ahead a bit, not by much, but ahead. And that's how they're judged. So if S/K make a mistake, they fall behind B/S but their scores still stay close to I/Z and S/B. The scoring of the FDs in the GP went in that direction as well . And tbh I don't necessarily disagree. You're not scoring potential and talent, you're scoring the programs and execution on the ice. I/Z's programs aren't ideal (the SD really, really did them in this year) and they have tendencies towards sloppiness even if they stay clean. S/B are polished and come with good vehicles, though their SS scores were a joke. S/K are sharp and crisp and polished as well, and so the mixture of being stronger skaters than S/B and having more flattering programs than I/Z pulls them ahead. I'm not sure they're quite at B/S level, but the difference isn't great IMO. They lack complexity in the FD a bit, but I can see that if they hit a performance like in the SD at Nats that the judges would want to go with them. Particularly since B/S IMO were tentative in that part of the comp and S/K's SD is for me also a better program than B/S' SD. Giving them 71 or perhaps 72 would have been enough, though. I think the judges just got overly excited with the new shiny toy in that moment.

 

[Snow63]

The fact that the Fed saw the petition is a very bad sign, honestly. Lakernik DO sound pissed off. However, I think it's the fans who made a mistake, not the athletes themself. And yes, in my opinion it will reflect badly on them, at least in short-term perspective. If they will prove they are reliable, however, the Fed will have no chice but to go with them, just what Bobrova/Soloviev did this season.

 

[Marta25]

Although I`m disappointed that I/Z didn`t qualify for the Euros team, this could be a blessing in disguise. We will see them in around 10 months again and hopefully dust will have settled over this petition until then. They have to prove now that they are reliable, that they can create programs that are being rewarded by this judging system. So, my hope is that they don`t touch that Hip Hop option that the ISU intoduced for next season`s SD with a ten-foot pole and just go with a classic Blues+Swing option. If they decide to change coaches, I would want them to change as fast as possible to not waste time, otherwise I would suggest that they maybe spent some time with one of the top coaches in Detroit over the summer. I remember that I/K spent around 2 weeks with Shpilband before the Olympic season, so maybe he would be an option.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I haven't watched the ID performances at Russian nationals yet, but I do believe--and I have believed this not only for the current season but for seasons past as well--that when you choose your music to pander to the audience at Worlds you are making A Grave Mistake. I/Z's SD this year is simply the latest illustration of this. Music chosen for a Worlds' audience to clap along to is no substitution for a well constructed, well-choreographed program. And I/Z's SD, even without falls or glitches or stumbles or lack of speed or anything else that is a scorable component, was simply bad program from the start, designed to pander.

 

[Snow63]

Although I`m disappointed that I/Z didn`t qualify for the Euros team, this could be a blessing in disguise. We will see them in around 10 months again and hopefully dust will have settled over this petition until then. They have to prove now that they are reliable, that they can create programs that are being rewarded by this judging system. So, my hope is that they don`t touch that Hip Hop option that the ISU intoduced for next season`s SD with a ten-foot pole and just go with a classic Blues+Swing option. If they decide to change coaches, I would want them to change as fast as possible to not waste time, otherwise I would suggest that they maybe spent some time with one of the top coaches in Detroit over the summer. I remember that I/K spent around 2 weeks with Shpilband before the Olympic season, so maybe he would be an option.

Oh my God. Now when you mentioned it, I actually CAN imagine them doing that I just hope they will learn from their mistakes.

 

[LisaM]

I haven't watched the ID performances at Russian nationals yet, but I do believe--and I have believed this not only for the current season but for seasons past as well--that when you choose your music to pander to the audience at Worlds you are making A Grave Mistake. I/Z's SD this year is simply the latest illustration of this. Music chosen for a Worlds' audience to clap along to is no substitution for a well constructed, well-choreographed program. And I/Z's SD, even without falls or glitches or stumbles or lack of speed or anything else that is a scorable component, was simply bad program from the start, designed to pander.

Even though I agree with it simply not working as a program, I highly doubt it was chosen for the reason of 'pandering to the audience'.

 

[Snow63]

It might be wise if I/Z would try to stop the petition, but they very likely have noticed it with satisfaction, so they might not do it.
I don't know, sometimes it's good if you keep your mouth shut and sometimes it isn't. You really only know afterwards.

I doubt that. That they like it, I mean. It would probably be OKAY to write a petition, I mean any person is free to do anything they want, right? And it would probably be OKAY to even expect something out of it. But to do it, the petition should at LEAST look official and COMPETENT, with argumentation based on ACTUAL RULES, with competent evidence base.

For example,

'According to chapter X p.Y of the ISU Communication #Z the execution of Sinitsina/Katsalapov's twizzles should ba graded by judges as '-2' BECAUSE OF:

- the distance between partners is variable - so the charactirestic should be graded '-1'

- connecting steps have some lack of control and wide stepping - so the charactirestic should be graded '-2'

- exit from the twizzles (third set of twizzles) lacks control - so the charactirestic should be graded '-2'

- entry into the twizzles is abrupt at best - so the charactirestic should be graded '-1'.

By averaging the charactirestics we get GOE of the element: -1; -2; -2; -1 = -1.5.

Besides, the execution of the second set of twizzles was not simultaneous, which means the GOE should be reduced by 1 grade (according to......). Final GOE for their twizzles should be '-2.5', and not higher than '-2'.

But in the petition the phrase about their twizzles was:

For example, the twizzles are performed at high speed across the whole rink, while Sinitsina/Katsalapov have a major error on this element which means a 2 point deduction.

What the hell is 2 points deduction? And what exactly was a 'major mistake'?

Anyway, you get my point. And I'm sure, Elena and Ruslan will NEVER support such incompetence.

P.S. I don't have anything against childlike protests and righteous anger, I'm the same sometimes. But if you write something to officials, and you expect them to read it and do as you wish, you can at least formulate your sentences decently. Sorry. Now I finished.

 

[katha]

That Ghost program is A Camp Masterpiece and fans of the absurd love every single :eeking: :scratch3: and moment of it!

I still have fond memories of the Euros that season. They really nailed the FD in that outing. And such were their combined powers of charisma and performance ability that they somehow hypnotized the judges into thinking that this dreck was a good program and brainwashed them into giving them first place in that portion. They WON the FD portion with Ghost! No wonder people still miss them, when they were on (which wasn't nearly often enough) they were really special and could basically sell fridges to penguins. Or, well, bamboozle the judges into thinking Ghost was a good program.

 

[Marta25]

I doubt that. That they like it, I mean. It would probably be OKAY to write a petition, I mean any person is free to do anything they want, right? And it would probably be OKAY to even expect something out of it. But to do it, the petition should at LEAST look official and COMPETENT, with argumentation based on ACTUAL RULES, with competent evidence base.

For example,



But in the petition the phrase about their twizzles was:


What the hell is 2 points deduction? And what exactly was a 'major mistake'?

Anyway, you get my point. And I'm sure, Elena and Ruslan will NEVER support such incompetence.

Elena and Ruslan usually not comment on things that are written about them in the media. After Worlds there were Russian experts calling their partnership a failure and criticising Elena`s weight, but neither Ruslan nor Elena ever commented on that. I think this seems just to be their strategy, to remain quiet and just focus on work.
Although this season didn`t have the outcome they wished for, I would say it was a very important learning experience. They had a FD that was very difficult to skate to and although it didn`t bring them any medals at Euros and Worlds, it will probably push them to become better skaters.

I just wanted to add that in all this drama I have the feeling people are forgetting about Zahorski/Guerreiro, who are also very strong. What are their chances to get a Grand Prix next season?

 

[solani]

I doubt that. That they like it, I mean. It would probably be OKAY to write a petition, I mean any person is free to do anything they want, right? And it would probably be OKAY to even expect something out of it. But to do it, the petition should at LEAST look official and COMPETENT, with argumentation based on ACTUAL RULES, with competent evidence base.

For example,



But in the petition the phrase about their twizzles was:


What the hell is 2 points deduction? And what exactly was a 'major mistake'?

Anyway, you get my point. And I'm sure, Elena and Ruslan will NEVER support such incompetence.

P.S. I don't have anything against childlike protest and righteous anger, I'm the same sometimes. But if you write something to officials, and you expect them to read it and do as you wish, you can at least formulate your sentences decently. Sorry. Now I finished.

I get your point. But if they're not commenting the petition they're agreeing to it. That's why I put the in, because I think (hope) that they will.
I would be satifsfied if so many people are standing behind me, even if they didn't phrase everything as the should. (Why comment on S/K's twizzles anyway? Argue the points that can benefit your cause, not everything. )

 

[Snow63]

I get your point. But if they're not commenting the petition they're agreeing to it. That's why I put the in, because I think (hope) that they will.
I would be satifsfied if so many people are standing behind me, even if they didn't phrase everything as the should. (Why comment on S/K's twizzles anyway? Argue the points that can benefit your cause, not everything. )

They probably don't know yet. Or maybe they know about it, that it exists, but haven't actually read it I don't know, but I wouldn't blame them for not commenting on it, becuase we don't know for sure why they're not commenting, right?

As for twizzles, it was the only visible mistake in Sinitsina/Katsalapov's both dances, so they've choosen it as 'example' why they were overscored And it's easiest element to argue about, because you basically can see the mistakes (often) when they happen. They could argue with Step Sequences of course, but to do so they actually needed to know the difference between rocker, counter and bracket.

 

[solani]

They probably don't know yet. Or maybe they know about it, that it exists, but haven't actually read it I don't know, but I wouldn't blame them for not commenting on it, becuase we don't know for sure why they're not commenting, right?

As for twizzles, it was the only visible mistake in Sinitsina/Katsalapov's both dances, so they've choosen it as 'example' why they were overscored And it's easiest element to argue about, because you basically can see the mistakes (often) when they happen. They could argue with Step Sequences of course, but to do so they actually needed to know the difference between rocker, counter and bracket.

Yes, they still have time to comment and I think the comment should be phrased smartly, so it's good to take the time to do it right, there's no hurry.
And yes, you can find faults in S/K's twizzels easily, but you have problems finding faults in S/B's twizzles. The petiton should question I/Z's scores or S/B's scores. That's the only chance that I/Z have a chance to go to Europeans (that's what the petition wants, right?). So they would have to argue the PCS imho, to have a chance to succeed. If they just want to express that they're disgruntled with the result it doesn't really matter how they do it.

 

[Marta25]

Yes, they still have time to comment and I think the comment should be phrased smartly, so it's good to take the time to do it right, there's no hurry.
And yes, you can find faults in S/K's twizzels easily, but you have problems finding faults in S/B's twizzles. The petiton should question I/Z's scores or S/B's scores. That's the only chance that I/Z have a chance to go to Europeans (that's what the petition wants, right?). So they would have to argue the PCS imho, to have a chance to succeed. If they just want to express that they're disgruntled with the result it doesn't really matter how they do it.

I think that was the intent of the petition, but since S/B are already nominated, the petition seems to just criticise the result. I understand that people are frustrated with the result, but IMO the best way to deal with it is to analyze what went wrong.
For example, I can only imagine how much frustration and pain Kaitlyn and Andrew felt when they won every competition last season with the exception of Worlds. But instead of publicly showing their feelings, they went back to the drawing board and analyzed why it went so wrong. Maybe this is why Elena and Ruslan are now silent too about this whole situation.

 

[solani]

I think that was the intent of the petition, but since S/B are already nominated, the petition seems to just criticise the result. I understand that people are frustrated with the result, but IMO the best way to deal with it is to analyze what went wrong.
For example, I can only imagine how much frustration and pain Kaitlyn and Andrew felt when they won every competition last season with the exception of Worlds. But instead of publicly showing their feelings, they went back to the drawing board and analyzed why it went so wrong. Maybe this is why Elena and Ruslan are now silent too about this whole situation.

I agree, and it won't do I/Z any good in my opinion to go to Europeans and have mediocre results again.