Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

[Meoima]

People who stuck with that impression probably don't know Yuzu's history and Nanami's philosophy to set the bar higher and higher, which means to backload FS, to add crazy difficult transitions before and after big jumps and to include 4T3T combo in 2011 Etude SP , when Yuzu was barely 16 year old.
In this perspective it's not surprising the 18 and 19 year old Nanami's golden boy refused to remove the 4S from his FS and the 20year old Yuzu decided by himself to get rid of a loser SP layout , proving his actual coach again and again that a conservative strategy doesn't suit Yuzuru Hanyu.

With all my respect to Miss Abe as I love her programs for Yuzuru, I think Orser has played a big role in helping Yuzuru to become the current Yuzuru. He has smashed the world records one by one when he is with Orser, not with any other coach.

And If you want to refuse Yuzuru's improvement under Orser, I will show you side by side images of Yuzuru's take off in most of his jumps before and after Orser for like 2 years and you can see how much Yuzuru has developed his skills. I can even show you how vastly different Yuzuru's lutz technique has changed from when he was 17 to his lutz technique he has NOW.

His quads have better flow a lot under Orser. And his other toe jumps also have improved vastly in the take off. The amount of crossovers Yuzuru uses each program also has reduced a lot. The speed and flow overall out of the jump and between each element, Yuzuru has made a big leap. I don't get the kind of fan who continue degrading Cricket Club team's involvement in Yuzuru's progress.

Yuzuru himself knows best who have helped him to this current height, the attitude and reaction he made in the Kiss and Cry with his coach have showed it all.

 

[Lindacrow]

This will be my first and last post here. The insinuation by some that Orser has done nothing for Yuzuru does not sit right with me. Please give credit when it is due.

Well hello and goodbye? I don't think people believe Orser has "done nothing" for Yuzu, without him, tbh I honestly don't believe Yuzuru would have been this sucessful. However, it is a common misconception that Orser taught Yuzuru's basic technique and foundation. Yuzu had those things before he came to Brian. What Brian did do was polish those skills further and give him guidance and proper training.

 

[Lindacrow]

Well I updated the Jump Scores. I now have the full history of Yuzu's senior 3A, 4T, and 4S.

3A: Yuzuru has landed 99/106 3A's giving him a 93% success rate with an average GOE of +1.5
4T: Yuzuru has landed 54/72 4T's giving him a 75% success rate with an average GOE of +0.6 (the 2011-2012 season really dropped it)
4S: He has landed 14/28 4S giving him a 50% sucess rate with an average GOE of -0.2 (But it is getting much better now!)

What jump should I do next? I'm thinking maybe his trusty lutz

 

[Poice]

A little bit off-topic but if anyone is interested I wanted to share Yuzu's GPF LP from Polish Eurosport

 

[matmuh]

well, that was sudden, i didnt interpret any of the posts disregarding any of the coaches, maybe there is sth wrong with my english :think: this might be the affect of "dark times" between nationals and worlds but worry not, there are still ice shows before we start being paranoid until worlds :agree:

Edit: right on time Poice, thanks as usual!!!! and welcome kamotejojo! i hope you will change your mind about not posting and enjoy your time here

 

[matmuh]

Well I updated the Jump Scores. I now have the full history of Yuzu's senior 3A, 4T, and 4S.

3A: Yuzuru has landed 99/106 3A's giving him a 93% success rate with an average GOE of +1.5
4T: Yuzuru has landed 54/72 4T's giving him a 75% success rate with an average GOE of +0.6 (the 2011-2012 season really dropped it)
4S: He has landed 14/28 4S giving him a 50% sucess rate with an average GOE of -0.2 (But it is getting much better now!)

What jump should I do next? I'm thinking maybe his trusty lutz

i am curious about his loop, i think it has great consistency as well

 

[Meoima]

i am curious about his loop, i think it has great consistency as well

Fun fact: Yuzuru's 3Loop is even more consistent than his 3A.

 

[Marin]

Well I've also noticed how from time to time some fans make themselves believe that "Orser and CC did nothing". Yuzuru is prodigy we all know it, so it is easier for coaches its obvious. BO mentioned it himself. If remembering Abe, we should mention here Mr. Tsuzuki too, It is him who did the great job teaching him correct technique. If you compare, you will see Tsuzuki's hand in all Yuzu's jumps, see Yuna Aoki , she has same technique.
His legendary RJ was done with the help of Russian choreographers - Natalia Bestimianova (these people forget it as well). Also, no words needed to compare how his edges, jumps and skills have improved in Canada under Orser. Just take a look at his flip, he was getting either e or !, now nice positive GOE. Then 4 sal case - Orser said the reason why they never gave up, it was because Yuzuru was landing them consistently on practices and was not able to do in competition. So this case has nothing to do with Orser "conservative" attitude. As Meoima said above, Yuzu's respect is shown in each competition towards his coach, his gratitude shows everything, But some people really prefer to believe that Yuzuru was able to get 4 sal alone, injured while training in Japan alone. (remembering older post of the same person) I don't want to keep this thread negative but please, if those fans see themselves as Yuzu's fans, I dare and advice to have respect to his team, because there is a huge contribution of CC and BRIAN ORSER in Hanyu Yuzuru - the Olympic and World champion now. (no one forgetting also Yamada Mami-his very first coach, Ms Abe and Mr Tsuzuki) Thank you and sorry for the long speech, I think gratitude is great sense after all.

 

[Pika]

I will add Orser's method of mental preparation, his theory about peak skating etc. I tried myself the "hypnotical method" they use and it's something every skater should try. Yuzu said himself that it was part of his mental strength.

 

[HanDomi]

Orser should get credit for current Hanyu 4S state. He quite heavily reworked his techhnique on it. It's basically diffrent jump from what Hanyu had in 2011
https://youtu.be/Ersk5csGUHM?t=46
vs
https://youtu.be/A_exzrV6yMQ?t=53

 

[Pika]

Orser should get credit for current Hanyu 4S state. He quite heavily reworked his techhnique on it. It's basically diffrent jump from what Hanyu had in 2011
https://youtu.be/Ersk5csGUHM?t=46
vs
https://youtu.be/A_exzrV6yMQ?t=53

Yup the edge use that triggers the jump is much more efficient, and allows him throw less energy to achieve the four rotations.

 

[ranran]

A little bit off-topic but if anyone is interested I wanted to share Yuzu's GPF LP from Polish Eurosport

A wonderful offtopic this is! Thank you for your hard work Poice!

 

[da96103]

A little bit off-topic but if anyone is interested I wanted to share Yuzu's GPF LP from Polish Eurosport

Thanks for the video.

The lady used the term Triple Rittberger. Someone should clue her in that she would need to practice to say Quadruple Rittberger for the future.

 

[Lindacrow]

i am curious about his loop, i think it has great consistency as well

Yuzuru has landed 33/35 3Lo giving him a 94% success rate with an average GOE 0.51. 3Lo doesn't get much love when it comes to GOE :noshake:

Can someone help me? Why did Yuzu's 3Lz+2T not count at COR but if did at nationals?

 

[matmuh]

Yuzuru has landed 33/35 3Lo giving him a 94% success rate with an average GOE 0.51. 3Lo doesn't get much love when it comes to GOE :noshake:

Thanks!!!! he needs more transitions but seriously i really like the entrance at Believe Ex

 

[Lys]

Can someone help me? Why did Yuzu's 3Lz+2T not count at COR but if did at nationals?

At COR he zayak'ed it because he already had 2 3T and 2 3A (elements 1, 2 and 7), so when he did that second 3Lz too all his combo was null and void.
At National he changed the combo on 3A from 3A+3T to 3A+2T+2T, so he didn't repeat 3T and could repeat 3Lz instead

 

[Lindacrow]

At COR he zayak'ed it because he already had 2 3T and 2 3A (elements 1, 2 and 7), so when he did that second 3Lz too all his combo was null and void.
At National he changed the combo on 3A from 3A+3T to 3A+2T+2T, so he didn't repeat 3T and could repeat 3Lz instead

Oh thank you, that confused me for a bit

 

[gsyzf]

Well hello and goodbye? I don't think people believe Orser has "done nothing" for Yuzu, without him, tbh I honestly don't believe Yuzuru would have been this sucessful. However, it is a common misconception that Orser taught Yuzuru's basic technique and foundation. Yuzu had those things before he came to Brian. What Brian did do was polish those skills further and give him guidance and proper training.

I think a person's success has more to do with destiny than talent/skills. In a subjectively judged sport, a skater with better skills doesn't necessarily get better scores. A skater with worse skills can get better scores than another skater who has better skills, due to unbalanced judging system and unfair judging. There are skaters who are talented, but never given enough reward for their talent. There are skaters who are less talented, but achieved good results due to competing in a weak field and the judging system rewarding their strengths and not punishing their weaknesses.

I still think the main turning point for Yuzuru's success is his win at 2013 GPF. IMO, he was only able to win with a big margin because the GPF was held in Japan. (He had always low-balled relative to the top skaters before that.) He was only able to win the Olympics because he won the GPF with a landslide victory. After his win at the Olympics, he was finally perceived as a top skater by the judges. (He had the skills before that, but judges never appreciated his talent/skills like they do now until he won the Olympics.) Last season, given his sub-par performances at COC and NHK, it was a miracle he qualified for the final by 0.15 points. I don't know what can explain his qualification other than destiny, that Yuzu is meant to qualify for the final. NHK being held in Japan also didn't hurt Yuzuru's score. At least, he wouldn't be low-balled. If he didn't qualify for the final and gave a good performance there, he would've lost the momentum going into WC and not even medal at the WC. Similary things happened in the 2011-2012 season. He qualified for the final because he won COR by 0.3 points. His qualification for the GPF in 2011 was also a turning point of his career. He gained some momentum and was able to medal at WC in 2012. (He woudn't be able to win a medal at his WC debut if he didn't leave any impression on the judges at the 2011 GPF.) He also won the WC in Japan by 0.33 points. What is the odds of this happening to the same person so many times? How lucky can one person get? He was able to smash the WR because NHK was held in Japan. If the competition was held elsewhere, his scores would be significantly lower (maybe only slightly surpass 200 and 300 points) because judges would be more conservative since his previous performance at Skate Canada was not very impressive. If anything, I think JSF is the main contributor (other than destiny) to Yuzuru's success.

None of the male skaters is consistent. A male skater's success is about peaking at the right time and the right place. I don't know how Denis Ten does it. He is inconsistent, but he has always peaked at the right time and right place every season, often when everybody else gave poor performances. (2013 WC, 2014 Olympics, 2015 4CC). So he is now recognized as a top skater by the judges.

 

[Hanmgse]

I think a person's success has more to do with destiny than talent/skills. In a subjectively judged sport, a skater with better skills doesn't necessarily get better scores. A skater with worse skills can get better scores than another skater who has better skills, due to unbalanced judging system and unfair judging. There are skaters who are talented, but never given enough reward for their talent. There are skaters who are less talented, but achieved good results due to competing in a weak field and the judging system rewarding their strengths and not punishing their weaknesses.

I still think the main turning point for Yuzuru's success is his win at 2013 GPF. IMO, he was only able to win with a big margin because the GPF was held in Japan. (He had always low-balled relative to the top skaters before that.) He was only able to win the Olympics because he won the GPF with a landslide victory. After his win at the Olympics, he was finally perceived as a top skater by the judges. (He had the skills before that, but judges never appreciated his talent/skills like they do now until he won the Olympics.) Last season, given his sub-par performances at COC and NHK, it was a miracle he qualified for the final by 0.15 points. I don't know what can explain his qualification other than destiny, that Yuzu is meant to qualify for the final. NHK being held in Japan also didn't hurt Yuzuru's score. At least, he wouldn't be low-balled. If he didn't qualify for the final and gave a good performance there, he would've lost the momentum going into WC and not even medal at the WC. Similary things happened in the 2011-2012 season. He qualified for the final because he won COR by 0.3 points. His qualification for the GPF in 2011 was also a turning point of his career. He gained some momentum and was able to medal at WC in 2012. (He woudn't be able to win a medal at his WC debut if he didn't leave any impression on the judges at the 2011 GPF.) He also won the WC in Japan by 0.33 points. What is the odds of this happening to the same person so many times? How lucky can one person get? He was able to smash the WR because NHK was held in Japan. If the competition was held elsewhere, his scores would be significantly lower (maybe only slightly surpass 200 and 300 points) because judges would be more conservative since his previous performance at Skate Canada was not very impressive. If anything, I think JSF is the main contributor (other than destiny) to Yuzuru's success.

None of the male skaters is consistent. A male skater's success is about peaking at the right time and the right place. I don't know how Denis Ten does it. He is inconsistent, but he has always peaked at the right time and right place every season, often when everybody else gave poor performances. (2013 WC, 2014 Olympics, 2015 4CC). So he is now recognized as a top skater by the judges.

I think in depends on both and more like destiny I would call it luck .
Anyway I don't think judges didn't aprecciate his talent until he won Olympics. He broke the short program record two times prior GPF 2013, so clearly judges liked what they saw. The problem is that Yuzuru was very inconsistent in the free program so he couldn't position himself as a top skater imo.

 

[Winnie_20]

at the magazines. When the highlights in interviews and other mag articles are washing the dishes and girl-friends, you know it's a bad time for proper News.