State of Russian Men's Figure Skating 2015-2016

[gmyers]

Oh, get over yourself. Bychenko won silver because he skated well, so stop trying to trivialize Bychenko by saying it's humiliating to lose to performances like his. He was the only guy to have a clean SP with a quad, and his FS was very good, including a quad, a 3A, a 3Z+3S and 3F+3T combos. Saying it's humiliating to lose to Bychenko is like saying it's humiliating for all those guys at 2013 Worlds to lose to a skater like Denis Ten who hadn't placed higher than 5th at any GP/significant competition prior to winning World silver. It completely trivializes the wonderful performances done by Bychenko/Ten. Bychenko's Euros score would have essentially tied him for 5th at last year's Worlds, so it isn't exactly humiliating to lose to that. I'm sick of people trying to tear down skater A by saying it's humiliating or amusing or telling that they lost to skater B who they were supposed to beat (when skater B skated extremely well, at that).

You think Kolyada (with 1 quad in each program) and Petrov (with no quads) did any better than Kovtun (2 and 3 quads)? Obviously given the score line, they didn't. As for Kovtun not having the talent to beat Bychenko -- if you recall correctly, Kovtun easily beat Bychenko at Worlds last year... and the other Russian, Voronov, was closer to Bychenko in the standings than he was to Kovtun: http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2015/CAT001RS.HTM

Newsflash: Russian men haven't been particularly good under CoP -- the only reason Plushenko was getting winning results is because - along with excellent consistency - he had the reputation to get huge PCS even with empty, jumpfest programs. None of these Russian men had the benefit of that pre-CoP reputation and they are all bred under the ideals of (a lot of) Russian men's skating -- do your jumps cleanly, execute an energetic final footwork, and the artistic scores should follow..... which isn't what is rewarded under CoP. That's why so few of them have had the skating skills of other top skaters, because their focus has been on the jump elements. So in a sense, YES, they are carrying out a legacy of Russian men's skating under CoP. The whole sensibility of Russian men's skating is anti-CoP... you'll never get a Takahashi or a Chan out of them because their priority is developing strong jumpers (although that's starting to shift now gradually with Kolyada/Aliev/Pitkeev, IMO). If you recall, Kovtun as a junior showed great artistic potential, but then his focus switched over to landing the jumps when he reached senior level.

As for, he's "only" number 1 because of his 5 quad attempts. Next thing you'll say that the "only" reason Jin made the GPF is because of his 6 quad attempts... "The only reason he's doing so well is because he's doing great content." Like... duh. For the longest time, Kovtun was only one of 2 men trying 5 quads. To suggest that he doesn't deserve PCS over 5 really says it all -- you don't like the guy, but he's clearly the best Russian man at this point and it's not because his federation is propping up (though they are), it's because he's got way more technical content than the other guys, and the other guys aren't stepping up and giving a legitimate case for the Russian federation to switch their favour from Kovtun to one of them. Kovtun ain't "ruining" anything -- if anything, he's getting results at Worlds that are ensuring Russia still has had 2 spots the past two seasons, when Voronov wouldn't have maintained 2 spots. Kovtun didn't beat Kolyada and Petrov because he was propped, he beat them because Kolyada made costly SP errors (two in both the SP and LP), and Petrov doesn't have a quad (and isn't like a Jason Brown-level skater who can get away with it).

Also, Doronina's career wasn't "stopped by Russia", it was halted by a season off due to mononucleosis, and then she wasn't nearly the same calibre attempting to comeback after a year off, particularly with Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva/Leonova/Makarova coming up. Gurl still won 2 national titles though.

No it is humiliating to the Russian program that bychenko beat all the Russians. Bychenko didn't do anything a russian shouldn't be able to do. Especially three Russians.


The scores of petrov and kolyada were affected by Russia saying to all kovtun is number one and he should get the scores. Not to mention righini didn't do anything of much more difficulty than petrov. Kolyada also skated better than kovtun which a better if not North American proper program. Russia refuses to send its best to Canada and United States and refuses to adopt The right kind of orser Carroll nichol coaching/choreo.

Kovtun doesn't deserve pcs over 5 because he has no performance or interpretation. You hate plushenko so much and are devoted to a skater that beat him just for that reason only. You say plushenko had no talent but you are wrong and will always be wrong. Level 4 spins. Level 4 steps. He was not just a jumper. How do you explain plushenko in najinski doing more choreo than any russian man now?

Russia radically redid its ladies competition to basically eliminate doronina and gozeva Iveleva and more. Its needs to ted something similar with the men's event because kovtun is destroying the reputation of Russian men. He only tries five quads and that's it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

No it is humiliating to the Russian program that bychenko beat all the Russians. Bychenko didn't do anything a russian shouldn't be able to do. Especially three Russians.


The scores of petrov and kolyada were affected by Russia saying to all kovtun is number one and he should get the scores. Not to mention righini didn't do anything of much more difficulty than petrov. Kolyada also skated better than kovtun which a better if not North American proper program. Russia refuses to send its best to Canada and United States and refuses to adopt The right kind of orser Carroll nichol coaching/choreo.

Kovtun doesn't deserve pcs over 5 because he has no performance or interpretation. You hate plushenko so much and are devoted to a skater that beat him just for that reason only. You say plushenko had no talent but you are wrong and will always be wrong. Level 4 spins. Level 4 steps. He was not just a jumper. How do you explain plushenko in najinski doing more choreo than any russian man now?

Russia radically redid its ladies competition to basically eliminate doronina and gozeva Iveleva and more. Its needs to ted something similar with the men's event because kovtun is destroying the reputation of Russian men. He only tries five quads and that's it.

Bychenko did a lot of things the Russian men have failed to do -- firstly, he has a quad, which Petrov doesn't have. Secondly, he has two freeskate quads, which Kolyada doesn't have (and skated a clean SP with a quad, which Kolyada didn't do). And thirdly, he skated cleaner than Kovtun overall, pulling himself up to 2nd. I don't know if I have to explain the concept of a clean skater overall winning over a skater who makes mistakes in both programs even if that clean skater is "supposed" to be further back. We've seen it time and time again -- Ge and Nguyen at 2015 Worlds were "supposed" to be behind Kovtun/Yan/Voronov... or in Sochi, Liebers was "supposed" to be behind Brown and Abbott, Ten was "supposed" to be behind Hanyu/Takahashi/Fernandez at 2013 Worlds, and yet they weren't because the formers skated well while the latters did not.

And what are you talking about Righini not having more difficulty than Petrov?! Petrov had only one level 4 on his spins/footwork in the LP, and Righini had all level 4's (not to mention, Petrov didn't have any level 4's in his SP). Not to mention, Righini executes his elements much better than Petrov (at least if you go by GOE... his BV was about 3 points lower because of the doubled lutz, but the quality of his elements compared to Petrov essentially tied them on TES). Righini also executes his 3-3 in the 2nd half of his SP (and a cleaner edge on his 3F, which Petrov got a ! call), and had cleaner jumps in his LP (save for the double lutz).

And yes, Kolyada did skate better than Kovtun -- in the free program. But there is a short program (where Kolyada was thoroughly outskated by Kovtun) and free program (where Kovtun was outskated by Kolyada but had enough of a lead and had a strong enough of a 2nd half to his FS to maintain the bronze).

I "hate Plushenko so much"? Please. You're the one suggesting Kovtun deserves scores no higher than what a novice level skater receives (either that, or you clearly don't understand what constitutes PCS of 5 or less), and try to bash him for losing to an essentially clean Bychenko -- and by a mere 0.3 points at that. Also, Plushenko in Nijinsky did NOT do more choreo than many of the Russian men now.... maybe in that final footwork sequence (which of course still isn't as complex as most level 4 sequences now), but the actual choreographic content (I'm talking originality, intricate skating, transitions, edgework, difficult turns) throughout Plu's Nijinsky program isn't even close to what several of the Russian men are doing these days. Performance-wise, Nijinsky is far more exciting than anything the other Russian men have produced, but in terms of choreo and difficulty that's incorporated between the elements, it's pretty average at best (his Euros 2012 program was far better and more intricate choreography, though not as exciting performance-wise).

Take Kovtun out of the equation. Now, you have no 2nd spot at 2016 Worlds, you have no Europeans 2016 medalist... and in the past 5 years you have no GP wins for Russian men (although Voronov's GP silvers and GPF bronze are notable)... and, without him, the highest placement of any Russian man in the past 5 years at Worlds is 13th. He's not ruining the rep of Russian men, he's the best of a struggling discipline wherein all the guys are rather ho-hum and none of them are doing much to maintain the legacy of Russian men. The difference between Kovtun and Doronina (and the vast majority of the other Russian men) though -- Kovtun is actually winning international medals for Russia.

He and Voronov are respectively ranked 5th and 4th in the world right now. That is hardly embarrassing or humiliating.

 

[plushyfan]

You hate plushenko so much and are devoted to a skater that beat him just for that reason only. You say plushenko had no talent but you are wrong and will always be wrong. Level 4 spins. Level 4 steps. He was not just a jumper. How do you explain plushenko in najinski doing more choreo than any russian man now?

CSG is well-known about it. This has been demonstrated in many ridiculous, absurd and uninformed comments in the past....(Level 4 spins level 4 steps plus 75 6.0s most of them are presentation marks. )

The Nijinsky is one of the most beautiful male programs ever. The figure skating fans don't care of the TRs, levels etc in it, especially because that was in 2004, not today. ( The footwork was really strong in the old system, Dick Button also praised it then ) That was pure beauty in all aspect.

One of the fantastic comments to the video:

"This is angel on ice. Perfect its not enough. Its above. The legend this is what he is, the man who can skating on the cloud. Pure emotions. After this the sky can fall down."

I'm waiting for a comment like this about Kovtun's well-choreographed program...

 

[silverlake22]

If Amodio had made the final flight, he likely would have won bronze. Everyone knows the PCS goes up for the final group. Kolyada's skate I thought was worth more than 159, but skating in the penultimate group I understood where his marks came from. Just another example of how the SP plays into the final results. I'm not a huge fan of Kovtun but I don't really have an issue with how the results panned out at Euros. I mean, it's not like he was gifted a Euros title or huge score or anything. His total score wasn't that high, he got beaten by Bychenko overall, and he was 6th in the FS.

Most of the other men not being that great helped Kovtun win bronze, too. If more guys had skated better the results could have been different. Also, whether you like to admit it or not, Kovtun has very technically challenging programs planned on paper. He made a bunch of mistakes but there was so much planned in his 2 programs jump wise that he was still able to hold onto a medal. It's the same story with Anna. COP is all about points.

 

[moriel]

Humiliating? Nops, stuff happens. Not always you have talented skaters around, so yeah, its just the best you got...
Is it humiliating for Japan to not have decent pairs? Or to USA to fail to medal at major competitions?

Meh, get over it.

 

[gmyers]

CSG is well-known about it. This has been demonstrated in many ridiculous, absurd and uninformed comments in the past....(Level 4 spins level 4 steps plus 75 6.0s most of them are presentation marks. )

The Nijinsky is one of the most beautiful male programs ever. The figure skating fans don't care of the TRs, levels etc in it, especially because that was in 2004, not today. ( The footwork was really strong in the old system, Dick Button also praised it then ) That was pure beauty in all aspect.

One of the fantastic comments to the video:

"This is angel on ice. Perfect its not enough. Its above. The legend this is what he is, the man who can skating on the cloud. Pure emotions. After this the sky can fall down."

I'm waiting for a comment like this about Kovtun's well-choreographed program...

You are so right and correct! Najinski was just an extreme inspiration to legions of skating fans around the world. Totally iconic and legendary. That's why plushenko got his high second marks in 6.0 and IJS! Russian men need to try to come close to that not just jumps. Its easier to copy jumps than legendary inspiration and iconic skating programs but there must be a effort to do so! Hanyu Fernandez Ten so many go to North American coaches for shortcuts to get what judges love! There must be an effort in Russia to develop a skater who loves performing and try to find a plushenko magic or just send them to North America for the shortcut. PCS is key and plushenko didn't get pcs bonus for quads but for being a great and legendary and always iconic performer of stunning charisma.

 

[Jaana]

You are so right and correct! Najinski was just an extreme inspiration to legions of skating fans around the world. Totally iconic and legendary. That's why plushenko got his high second marks in 6.0 and IJS! Russian men need to try to come close to that not just jumps. Its easier to copy jumps than legendary inspiration and iconic skating programs but there must be a effort to do so! Hanyu Fernandez Ten so many go to North American coaches for shortcuts to get what judges love! There must be an effort in Russia to develop a skater who loves performing and try to find a plushenko magic or just send them to North America for the shortcut.

How come that more Canadian or US skaters do not benefit from that wonderful NA shortcut and medal at major competitions....? Or are you implying that Russian choreographers do not have an ability to create CoP programs? Besides, a great CoP program also needs a skater to be able to perform it.

 

[gmyers]

How come that more Canadian or US skaters do not benefit from that wonderful NA shortcut and medal at major competitions....? Or are you implying that Russian choreographers do not have an ability to create CoP programs? Besides, a great CoP program also needs a skater to be able to perform it.

You are right and the problem with kovtun and Russia supporting kovtun able all others is that he has no capacity to skate a great cop program. So even if he was sent to orser Carroll or whoever it wouldn't work. Fernandez hanyu and ten all had great potential but Werner complete until they moved to North America. For whatever reason and it may be because of lack of talent from the men russian choreographers can do great work with the ladies but are horrible with the men.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You are right and the problem with kovtun and Russia supporting kovtun able all others is that he has no capacity to skate a great cop program. So even if he was sent to orser Carroll or whoever it wouldn't work. Fernandez hanyu and ten all had great potential but Werner complete until they moved to North America. For whatever reason and it may be because of lack of talent from the men russian choreographers can do great work with the ladies but are horrible with the men.

If he lacked any capacity to skate a great CoP program, then how does he have 3 straight Russian National titles and Grand Prix gold medals, and placed as high as 4th at Worlds (in just 3 senior GP seasons, under CoP, at that)?

 

[gmyers]

If he lacked any capacity to skate a great CoP program, then how does he have 3 straight Russian National titles and Grand Prix gold medals, and placed as high as 4th at Worlds (in just 3 senior GP seasons, under CoP, at that)?

The Russian titles mean nothing. He has one more than ksneia doronina. Voronov deserved to beat him in 2015 and kolyada in 2016. His 3 titles indicate he's the federation favorite. One of his gp wins was all about two frontrunners crashing into each other. Sometimes he can land his quads and he has inflated pcs because tarasova has a lot of influence. Look at his 4th place. Was he close to third? Was it a good worlds? No.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You are so right and correct! Najinski was just an extreme inspiration to legions of skating fans around the world. Totally iconic and legendary. That's why plushenko got his high second marks in 6.0 and IJS! Russian men need to try to come close to that not just jumps. Its easier to copy jumps than legendary inspiration and iconic skating programs but there must be a effort to do so! Hanyu Fernandez Ten so many go to North American coaches for shortcuts to get what judges love! There must be an effort in Russia to develop a skater who loves performing and try to find a plushenko magic or just send them to North America for the shortcut. PCS is key and plushenko didn't get pcs bonus for quads but for being a great and legendary and always iconic performer of stunning charisma.

Plushenko was magic when he performed, but he was also reputation (being an OSM in 2002/2010 and OGM in 2006). None of the current Russian men had/have that reputation that Plushenko has. You saw it at 2014 Nationals with him scoring 95 PCS for that disastrous FS. And yes, you are very correct in saying that Plushenko's PCS bonus was for being the legend he was because, in most cases, his PCS certainly wasn't justified by the inbetween content/choreography of his programs.

I also don't know what you mean by shortcuts. Hanyu/Fernandez/Ten actually put in the content to satisfy CoP guidelines -- the problem with Russian men is they think that a clean jumpfest is enough to get high PCS (since it worked with Plushenko), and their focus hasn't been on developing the artistic side necessary to challenge the top guys, whereas Hanyu/Fernandez/Ten have clearly made that effort. It's, quite frankly, the opposite of taking shortcuts.

 

[gmyers]

Plushenko was magic when he performed, but he was also reputation (being an OSM in 2002/2010 and OGM in 2006). None of the current Russian men had/have that reputation that Plushenko has. You saw it at 2014 Nationals with him scoring 95 PCS for that disastrous FS. And yes, you are very correct in saying that Plushenko's PCS bonus was for being the legend he was because, in most cases, his PCS certainly wasn't justified by the inbetween content/choreography of his programs.

I also don't know what you mean by shortcuts. Hanyu/Fernandez/Ten actually put in the content to satisfy CoP guidelines -- the problem with Russian men is they think that a clean jumpfest is enough to get high PCS (since it worked with Plushenko), and their focus hasn't been on developing the artistic side necessary to challenge the top guys, whereas Hanyu/Fernandez/Ten have clearly made that effort. It's, quite frankly, the opposite of taking shortcuts.

Najinski was a choreographically legendary program that got 6.0 from judges all over in many competitons. Your hatred is so overwhelmingly blinding that you talking about him is ridiculous. He deserved no Olympic medals to you. He never did any choreo. What's your problem?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

The Russian titles mean nothing. He has one more than ksneia doronina. Voronov deserved to beat him in 2015 and kolyada in 2016. His 3 titles indicate he's the federation favorite. One of his gp wins was all about two frontrunners crashing into each other. Sometimes he can land his quads and he has inflated pcs because tarasova has a lot of influence. Look at his 4th place. Was he close to third? Was it a good worlds? No.

Haha, oh man, the haterade is STRONG with you, my friend. I suppose Tarasova is lifting him up in an invisible harness and landing his quads for him, too? You are trying SO hard to trivialize all his accolades "Russian titles mean nothing", "Cup of China was due to a collision (and not his excellent FS or anything....)", "4th place wasn't close to 3rd place (of 275 points, at that)".

Voronov also made errors which cost him the 2015 Russian National title, and Kolyada was outjumped by Kovtun at Nationals (look at their BV's) and clearly wasn't going to be given the same PCS as a more established skater like Kovtun -- I would have liked to see Kolyada win 2016, but I'm completely fine with Kovtun winning it. Russian Nationals means nothing to you, but I'm betting if Voronov won in 2015, and Kolyada won in 2016, you'd suddenly be crowing about how important the Russian title is.

Anyways, I look forward to Kovtun continuing to infuriate you with his wins and medals. I certainly have no problem with him being UNDOUBTEDLY Russian #1 at this point, because at least he's the best shot for Russia to maintain 2 spots, whereas Voronov is unreliable, Menshov is doing poorly, Pitkeev fizzled at Nationals, Petrov lacks a quad, and Kolyada is too new on the scene to get the PCS needed to crack the top skaters in the World.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Najinski was a choreographically legendary program that got 6.0 from judges all over in many competitons. Your hatred is so overwhelmingly blinding that you talking about him is ridiculous. He deserved no Olympic medals to you. He never did any choreo. What's your problem?

I'm sorry, just because somebody wins accolades doesn't mean I have to drink the Kool-Aid and say their program is "choreographically legendary". Plushenko's Nijinsky was an excellent program by pre-CoP standards but if you're looking at a well-rounded program that doesn't merely rely on clean jumps and a suddenly-energetic footwork, and exhibits features of good skating (difficult turns, original choreography throughout the program, edge work, one footed multi-directional skating), then there are TONS of programs that surpass Nijinsky in that respect. Plu still deserves all his Nijinsky wins, and being usually the only one to skate cleanly in most competitions, given his reputation, and being often last to skate, the 6.0's were understandable and deserved in that respect (and of course, this was when the 2nd mark was "artistic impression" not "program components"). Nijinsky is special for its performance value and the magic he created when he skated it (well, I should say the magic he created once his front loaded jumps were out of the way and he could finally start skating the program), but in terms of substance of actual aspects and fundamentals of strong figure skating, it was lacking (we saw this in 2010 and onwards when other skaters were getting higher 2nd marks than him)

Also LMAO at you saying my hatred is overwhelmingly blinding when I've still had positive things to say about Plushenko, but I'm just keeping it real when it comes to the content of his programs. You on the other hand have an obvious blinding hatred of Kovtun where no good result of his is worth noting, and any bad failure of his is ammunition against him.

 

[gmyers]

I'm sorry, just because somebody wins accolades doesn't mean I have to drink the Kool-Aid and say their program is "choreographically legendary". Plushenko's Nijinsky was an excellent program by pre-CoP standards but if you're looking at a well-rounded program that doesn't merely rely on clean jumps and a suddenly-energetic footwork, and exhibits features of good skating (difficult turns, original choreography throughout the program, edge work, one footed multi-directional skating), then there are TONS of programs that surpass Nijinsky in that respect. Plu still deserves all his Nijinsky wins, and being usually the only one to skate cleanly in most competitions, given his reputation, and being often last to skate, the 6.0's were understandable and deserved in that respect (and of course, this was when the 2nd mark was "artistic impression" not "program components"). Nijinsky is special for its performance value and the magic he created when he skated it (well, I should say the magic he created once his front loaded jumps were out of the way and he could finally start skating the program), but in terms of substance of actual aspects and fundamentals of strong figure skating, it was lacking (we saw this in 2010 and onwards when other skaters were getting higher 2nd marks than him)

Also LMAO at you saying my hatred is overwhelmingly blinding when I've still had positive things to say about Plushenko, but I'm just keeping it real when it comes to the content of his programs. You on the other hand have an obvious blinding hatred of Kovtun where no good result of his is worth noting, and any bad failure of his is ammunition against him.

You are the one saying all plushenkos second mark success in 6.0 and cop was from being consistent on jumps. Then you criticize for frontloading jumps as if that's a problem and a program can't be good when jumps are 6/2 or 5/3.

You can say kovtun is successful all you want but he really isn't by the historic standards of Russian and soviet men. All you have is two spots at worlds. Big deal. No contending for euro gold or silver most recently or a worlds medal. Based on what you say about all the other russian men what's the value of two spots anyway?

 

[gmyers]

I'm sorry, just because somebody wins accolades doesn't mean I have to drink the Kool-Aid and say their program is "choreographically legendary". Plushenko's Nijinsky was an excellent program by pre-CoP standards but if you're looking at a well-rounded program that doesn't merely rely on clean jumps and a suddenly-energetic footwork, and exhibits features of good skating (difficult turns, original choreography throughout the program, edge work, one footed multi-directional skating), then there are TONS of programs that surpass Nijinsky in that respect. Plu still deserves all his Nijinsky wins, and being usually the only one to skate cleanly in most competitions, given his reputation, and being often last to skate, the 6.0's were understandable and deserved in that respect (and of course, this was when the 2nd mark was "artistic impression" not "program components"). Nijinsky is special for its performance value and the magic he created when he skated it (well, I should say the magic he created once his front loaded jumps were out of the way and he could finally start skating the program), but in terms of substance of actual aspects and fundamentals of strong figure skating, it was lacking (we saw this in 2010 and onwards when other skaters were getting higher 2nd marks than him)

Also LMAO at you saying my hatred is overwhelmingly blinding when I've still had positive things to say about Plushenko, but I'm just keeping it real when it comes to the content of his programs. You on the other hand have an obvious blinding hatred of Kovtun where no good result of his is worth noting, and any bad failure of his is ammunition against him.

You are not keeping it real. You are saying all plushenkos success is a jump bonus.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

You can say kovtun is successful all you want but he really isn't by the historic standards of Russian and soviet men. All you have is two spots at worlds. Big deal. No contending for euro gold or silver most recently or a worlds medal. Based on what you say about all the other russian men what's the value of two spots anyway?

Oh he certainly isn't successful by standards of Plushenko (jumping consistency, and performance ability, to be specific), or Yagudin, or Kulik, or Urmanov. But he's also only ha 3 seasons and he is the best the Russian men have at this point in time.

Obviously he isn't a huge threat for world podium because the top 3 or 4 guys in the world are miles ahead (with Hanyu and Fernandez essentially taking top spots), or Euro gold (with Javier competing). Even Plushenko's career personal best wouldn't have medaled at Worlds last year or the year before (when Kovtun came 4th).

And what are you talking about he can't contend for a Euros gold or silver? He won silver at Euros just last year!

 

[gmyers]

Oh he certainly isn't successful by standards of Plushenko (jumping consistency, and performance ability, to be specific), or Yagudin, or Kulik, or Urmanov. But he's also only ha 3 seasons and he is the best the Russian men have at this point in time.

Obviously he isn't a huge threat for world podium because the top 3 or 4 guys in the world are miles ahead (with Hanyu and Fernandez essentially taking top spots), or Euro gold (with Javier competing). Even Plushenko's career personal best wouldn't have medaled at Worlds last year or the year before (when Kovtun came 4th).

And what are you talking about he can't contend for a Euros gold or silver? He won silver at Euros just last year!

Kovtun can only contend for euro silver which he sometimes doesn't even win or be doesn't medal like in 2014. Jenalso only contends for worlds top 10. There is no reason for him to be guaranteed national title. Voronov winning in 2015 and kolyada winning in 2016 still means kovtun goes to worlds. Kovtun just doesnt contend for anything that's meaningful if you look at the big picture of the history of Russian men so why hold him up?

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Kovtun can only contend for euro silver which he sometimes doesn't even win or be doesn't medal like in 2014. Jenalso only contends for worlds top 10. There is no reason for him to be guaranteed national title. Voronov winning in 2015 and kolyada winning in 2016 still means kovtun goes to worlds. Kovtun just doesnt contend for anything that's meaningful if you look at the big picture of the history of Russian men so why hold him up?

Seriously... bashing Kovtun for not being able to outscore Fernandez (who scored 302.77, 262.49, 267.11, 274.87 at the past four Euros).... girrrrrl, please. It's ridiculous that you hold it against someone for being "only able to contend for Euro silver" when anyone who isn't Fernandez is fighting for silver at best. Plushenko would have lost all FOUR of the past European Championships to Fernandez, even if he had skated at his very best (261.23).

 

[gmyers]

Seriously... bashing Kovtun for not being able to outscore Fernandez (who scored 302.77, 262.49, 267.11, 274.87 at the past four Euros).... girrrrrl, please. It's ridiculous that you hold it against someone for being "only able to contend for Euro silver" when anyone who isn't Fernandez is fighting for silver at best. Plushenko would have lost all FOUR of the past European Championships to Fernandez, even if he had skated at his very best (261.23).

I never said plushenko could beat Fernandez. That's irrelevent. You are comparing plushenkos best Scores to Fernandez? Why? That's like if I said plushenko would've won this year. I said kovtun only contends for silver. He does only contend for silver he is not automatic silver. He is closer to not medaling than winning. Why is that worthy of so much russian federation support?