Project "Medvedeva", a victory by the rules

[moriel]

Everybody picking on Medvedeva's weight and appearence, please first go sort out the stuff with Brian Orser students. Elizabet Tursynbaeva looks like an 11 years old (srsl look at her and compare her with the Korean youngsters, they look around same age), and then people go and say Medvedeva is sick and starving even though she looks as a thin 16 years old.

 

[Seruleane]

I never participate in Russian FS boards. No matter how active some "pcs analysts" and "friends" of Russian ladies are here, GS is still much more civilized. The worst thing there was "Yulia vs. Adelina". Now it is dying down. But Eteri vs. CSKA is still on. Vaytsekhovskaya has some ties to CSKA and grudges against Eteri. In fact she represents one of the factions being a little more than just another blogger. This article is predominantly the accumulation of dirt - these all "facts" could be found in the boards.

Sure, it makes sense that Vaytsekhovskaya has some private reasons to hold a grudge against Eteri and Evgenia, hence the article. It's not like eating disorders aren't rampant in certain disciplines like figure skating or ballet, no matter which country of origin the skater is from (I think Jenny from TSL as well as Akiko have publicly talked about or written about their own struggles), but it is very secretive, and there is no reason to condemn a certain skater or coach. I understand that Evgenia is an easy target now that she has won lots of competitions and is the frontrunner. And sure, there are lots of posts on the other threads complaining about her tanos or being overscored or whatever, but it is unfair and wrong to accuse her of an eating disorder. Hopefully, she takes this in stride and doesn't let it affect her.

 

[Amei]

Sure, it makes sense that Vaytsekhovskaya has some private reasons to hold a grudge against Eteri and Evgenia, hence the article. It's not like eating disorders aren't rampant in certain disciplines like figure skating or ballet, no matter which country of origin the skater is from (I think Jenny from TSL as well as Akiko have publicly talked about or written about their own struggles), but it is very secretive, and there is no reason to condemn a certain skater or coach. I understand that Evgenia is an easy target now that she has won lots of competitions and is the frontrunner. And sure, there are lots of posts on the other threads complaining about her tanos or being overscored or whatever, but it is unfair and wrong to accuse her of an eating disorder. Hopefully, she takes this in stride and doesn't let it affect her.

I don't see this article as criticizing Evgenia, I see it as being critical of Eteri's methods.

*the child-like body thing is a comment that has been used a lot over the last several years with the young Russians coming in and winning everything.

 

[hippomoomin]

Hm... Did any skater win a competition by breaking the rules of judging?? Rules are there to follow, aren't them?
Yulia and Evgenia are completely different skaters. Yulia does not even listen to her music, and skated much business like, till recently, when she has massive trouble in her jumps. If you go back to watch her Olympic team events programs, her jumps were already quite sketchy, but because of her small built and everyone was taken away by the theme (little girl in red dress), barely brought the issues of her jumps up. Also till recently, Yulia did not look she enjoy skating. Evgenia, in contrast, jumps with decent height and distance; she feels the music, and always shows us she is having fun (same as Elena).
If Evgenia's career were to short live, Yulia will never be back, and Satoko will only be jumping doubles in a few years.

 

[Seruleane]

I don't see this article as criticizing Evgenia, I see it as being critical of Eteri's methods.

*the child-like body thing is a comment that has been used a lot over the last several years with the young Russians coming in and winning everything.

that is true, but it also casts shade on evgenia IMO. who would want to be discussed in such a manner?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

I agree with you that Evgenia has a fighting sprit, but I would not go so far as to say Julia lacks a fighting sprit. Eteri strikes me as a what have you done for me lately person. She coaches many skaters and when Julia starting having problems, Eteri either could not help her fix them or did not care to help because she had Evgenia ready to come up. Yulia wanted out early on, but the Russian Skating Fed made them try to work on it. Eteri and Yulia's disconnect was apparent at SA. Eteri even reportedly made comments to Tara Lipinski about Julia's attitude that she should not have IMO made. Yulia was in a toxic environment. No matter how much your fighting sprit is, situations like this are hard to overcome. Her jumps were failing her, she did not know why, and she had a coach that had given up on her to push the next big thing

I wouldn't say she gave up on Yulia any more than I'd say Yulia gave up on Eteri too. I just don't think Eteri, or anyone on earth, has the time to juggle the workload she is trying to carry now. Adian( struggling thru injury which probably requires extra time) Voronov, Zhenia, Polina. How on earth can anyone meet all of the demands and then deal with a 16year old girl in the spotlight of elite skating who is changing and having mental issues or fear of competing (Yulia's words)? Eteri probably did try and thought she was doing the best she could for her but even the added trip to America to let Marina work with her was probably not enough. A trip that Yulia funded with her Adidas sponsorship BTW. It is clearly a no win situation for both. Yulia needed time that Eteri couldn't possibly find. Just read Eteri's own words after her trip to America that talks about the way Artic was run with everyone having scheduled and equal ice times planned out for the entire day down to the minute. I'm surprised this shocked someone like Eteri so much who I found it very odd that she didn't do the same considering the number of students she has. In fact I've read where she said students sometimes get upset because they don't understand why she makes time for others and not the same time for them. It's a very complex situation without emotions thrown in. Now since it's figure skating we know that emotions are also playing a part in this. Emotions of fans, skaters, and critics alike.

 

[stryke]

All of you saying Eteri gave up on Yulia are just ridiculous. You are an example of Yulia's crazy fans who for all her failures blames everyone except her, especially the coach. It's stupidity. Here is a cold hard fact for you: Yulia is responsible for her current condition. Yulia and Eteri just flat out couldn't work together anymore. This was not a one way street.

 

[skylark]

Most of the comments about this article in the Russian media were very negative. And yes, Vaytsekhovskaya wrote that G/G were predecessors of C/S. But as she was ridiculed in the comments about having little knowledge about FS (as an athlete she was a diver) she quickly change the word to "successors". That's one of the comments from her blog:

bal
Самый шедевр статьи "Гордеева/Гриньков и последовавшие за ними Черкасова/Шахрай и Пестова/Леонович". А ничего, что Гордеева/Гриньков стали олимпийскими чемпионами в 1988 под руководством Леоновича??? После этого и ко всей статье невозможно относиться серьезно. А ведь раньше мне нравились статьи Вайцеховской, к сожалению, все больше и больше от них стало отдавать откровенной халтурой...
16:57 30 ЯНВАРЯ

"The main masterpiece of the article "Gordeeva/Grinkov and Cherkasova/Shakray and Pestova/Leonovich who followed them" What about Gordeeva/Grinkov became OGM in 1988 with Leonovich as a coach? After that it is impossible to treat this article seriously...."

I appreciate hearing your perspective, and others' remarks as well, about this source. It rang true for me because I'd seen videos of Cherkasov/Shakray and had been surprised by them. But if the source should be taken with a large dose of precaution, that is good to know. I did not intend to cast shade on anyone, but I think the subject of weight restriction and delay of puberty, whether for skaters or other athletes, is a serious one.

As far as the comment at the end, if I'm understanding the remark correctly, it's true that Leonovich was G&G's coach at 1988 Olympics. Gordeeva detailed the chronology of the coaches they had in her book and explained their reasons for switching coaches. But every coach along the way had an influence; and the training I mentioned, including certain moves and the strict diet, went on for years before 1988. Katia was interviewed recently about the subject of dietary restriction, and reconfirmed it.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Nvrmd

 

[Layback11]

Off-topic: when I saw this title, I thought "project Medvedeva" was some kind of contest (perhaps video-editing, or art, or something else creative) in which GS patrons would make some artistic thing about Evgenia and the best "Project Medvedeva" would win...but no, 'twas not. (That IS something I would totally love to see here, so I guess I kinda bridged the gap when I saw that title and decided that was what it was...)

 

[Vash01]

IMO Medvedeva will have a long career, she has a fighting spirit that Lipnitskaya lacked and will manage with puberty well

I think so. Julia had difficulty handling the sudden fame in Sochi. She experienced something she was not ready for. She was just a shy 15 year old. Medvedeva is 16 and appears to be past puberty. She does not have a pencil thin body. She has shown fighting spirit. Julia, who I still like, was a perfectionist early in her career, but when she started falling in competitions, she could not fight back. I think both young ladies will learn more as they continue in their careers. I am not giving up on either one. They are too young for that.

If we see a different Russian lady each year, it is simply because the competition is fierce among ladies in Russia. They have a healthy competiton. Anyone that says they are winning because of their bodies and not because of their hard work and determination, is being very unfair to these talented young ladies. Some are simply making excuses for the failure of US ladies in beating them. Nobody is stopping the US ladies from skating two clean performances but themselves, which could be good enough for a win.

I find the predictions of Medvedeva's (or any Russian lady's) failure laughable. Tuktamysheva has already shown that she is capable of making a comeback, like she did last year, and she is well past puberty. Adelina is on the way back, and if she gets her 2014 jumps back, she is going to be even better than she was in Sochi. Julia is not done yet, and neither is Medvedeva or Radionova. They are going to push each other to get better and the world better be ready for that.

 

[fruitbasket]

I think so. Julia had difficulty handling the sudden fame in Sochi. She experienced something she was not ready for. She was just a shy 15 year old. Medvedeva is 16 and appears to be past puberty. She does not have a pencil thin body. She has shown fighting spirit. Julia, who I still like, was a perfectionist early in her career, but when she started falling in competitions, she could not fight back. I think both young ladies will learn more as they continue in their careers. I am not giving up on either one. They are too young for that.

If we see a different Russian lady each year, it is simply because the competition is fierce among ladies in Russia. They have a healthy competiton. Anyone that says they are winning because of their bodies and not because of their hard work and determination, is being very unfair to these talented young ladies. Some are simply making excuses for the failure of US ladies in beating them. Nobody is stopping the US ladies from skating two clean performances but themselves, which could be good enough for a win.

I find the predictions of Medvedeva's (or any Russian lady's) failure laughable. Tuktamysheva has already shown that she is capable of making a comeback, like she did last year, and she is well past puberty. Adelina is on the way back, and if she gets her 2014 jumps back, she is going to be even better than she was in Sochi. Julia is not done yet, and neither is Medvedeva or Radionova. They are going to push each other to get better and the world better be ready for that.

i've seen the the most of sotnikova's competitions prior to 2014 sochi olympic. she does not have good jump technique. sotnikova is the only one figure skater does not have international title and get gold medal at sochi olympic. sotnikova's average scores are about 170s.

 

[plushyfan]

:disagree:

God save the figure skating from the malicious, prejudiced, old journalists!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Another thing that makes me optimistic for Evgenia is that Eteri has been through all this before as Julia's coach. Eteri probably has a better idea of how to prepare her star pupil for the pressure.

 

[plushyfan]

I agree with you that Evgenia has a fighting sprit, but I would not go so far as to say Julia lacks a fighting sprit. Eteri strikes me as a what have you done for me lately person. She coaches many skaters and when Julia starting having problems, Eteri either could not help her fix them or did not care to help because she had Evgenia ready to come up. Yulia wanted out early on, but the Russian Skating Fed made them try to work on it. Eteri and Yulia's disconnect was apparent at SA. Eteri even reportedly made comments to Tara Lipinski about Julia's attitude that she should not have IMO made. Yulia was in a toxic environment. No matter how much your fighting sprit is, situations like this are hard to overcome. Her jumps were failing her, she did not know why, and she had a coach that had given up on her to push the next big thing.

Hopefully Evgenia's career can continue successfully, but only time will tell. I have some questions marks by her mainly because of her reliance on overusing the tano and heavy backloading because I think body changes might make it harder for her to do it otherwise you would think more people would do it. Also personally, I would like to see some ISU rules limiting it, but that's a separate issue.

Anyway, I will see her at Worlds. Was hoping for Julia too because I like a little soap opera in my life, but it was not to be.

Why do you think those bad things what happened with Julia are only Eteri's fault? We don't have exact informations. Julia had some intersting reactions in K&C, so I hardly believe she is an easy going girl, especially after Sochi. She needed to handle an incredible popularity, media interest etc. That would be hard for an adult skater too, but she was only 15!!!!. I can imagine when he had problems she didn't want to work, she wanted to finish the skating. She had no motivations to overcome the difficulties. And we didn't talk about her mother she is a tipically " figure skating mother". We all know what that means.

I hope Julia will be back so we will have more exciting competitions in the future. :agree:

 

[Dan]

Is anyone else besides me tired of discussions about what will or won't happen when a pre-pubescent grows? Frankly, it seems Carlo Fossi's prediction has come true and 15 year olds will dominate the sport as in gymnastics and end their careers before age 20 with medals, injuries, surgeries, years of denying themselves and vast anonymity. Sad. Thank goodness we have YouTube to look at skaters from ages past when skating meant more than jumping with your hands over your head 7 to 10 times in four minutes.

 

[Snow63]

This is the biggest ******** ever. I find this article abrasive, offensive and I can't believe people actually like it and give it thumbs ups.

Vaitsekhovskaya is attention-*****, nothing more. She writes so many lies, personal attacks and she makes up stuff 'who said what to whom'. She's a low person, not real sports journalist.

edit: not to mention that she has personal grudge against Tutberidze.

 

[Perdita]

It's really sad that quite a few of the Russian interviews I enjoy to read actually come from either Simonenko or Vaitsekhovskaya... I can ignore their articles but not interviews. There should be more journalists who deserve to get those chances than these two.

 

[rollerblade]

Off-topic: when I saw this title, I thought "project Medvedeva" was some kind of contest (perhaps video-editing, or art, or something else creative) in which GS patrons would make some artistic thing about Evgenia and the best "Project Medvedeva" would win...but no, 'twas not.

I too thought it was gonna be some montage, some ideas spurred from the other Medvedeva thread.

But this article is basically Sensationalism Journalism. They say whatever to make the glove fit.

 

[solani]

I think this article is criticising the system, not a certain coach or a teenage skater. And it's an interesting article. Before CoP (beginning with the end of figures) teenage skaters had an advantage, now they have that advantage again, because coaches like Eteri do their jobs as best as they can. It's their job to produce winners. We as figure skating fans and the ISU only have to ask ourselves if this is what we want to see.
And I think that Evgenia will be a contender after puberty. She might need a couple of seasons, but we'll see her again because she's obviously very talented. And she'll be the far better skater when she's 19 or 20.