Who will break Yuna Kim's record and when?

[Tolstoj]

I hope Medvedeva: she has the mentality, the jumps (at the moment) and her FS is a joy to watch, as good as Julia's "Schinder's List" or Mao 2014 FS.

But i don't think american judges will give her a season best even if she skates clean, so maybe next year. (hoping puberty will not affect too much, but it doesn't seem to be the case here)

 

[yuki]

That's not the best example of Ina Bauer. That's more like lifting her arms and yawning. Yuna can't do a biellmann spin either. What I meant to say is that Yuna is not very flexible.

The Ina Bauer is not a flexibility move, though. An Ina Bauer is defined by the position of the feet, the back arch is optional (and it's called a layback Ina Bauer when performed with an arched back).
Wiki article with picture examples, both classic and layback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ina_Bauer_(element)

FWIW, I find this a good layback Ina Bauer.

 

[NicoleH]

FWIW, I find this a good layback Ina Bauer.

Yuna lays back more than usual in your example, but I would like to see her hold this position for some more time. She only holds for 1 second in that video. I prefer the kind of Ina Bauer that Shizuka and Hanyu do.

 

[mrrice]

The Ina Bauer is not a flexibility move, though. An Ina Bauer is defined by the position of the feet, the back arch is optional (and it's called a layback Ina Bauer when performed with an arched back).
Wiki article with picture examples, both classic and layback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ina_Bauer_(element)

FWIW, I find this a good layback Ina Bauer.

I've seen tons of Ina Bauer's in my day. You know who had a really good one. Rachael Flatt. Spectacular!! Tonya Harding also had a good Ina Bauer. However, the best Ina Bauer I've ever seen belongs to Shizuka Arakawa...

 

[OS]

I hope Medvedeva: she has the mentality, the jumps (at the moment) and her FS is a joy to watch, as good as Julia's "Schinder's List" or Mao 2014 FS.

But i don't think american judges will give her a season best even if she skates clean, so maybe next year. (hoping puberty will not affect too much, but it doesn't seem to be the case here)

For me Medvedeva is easily one of the most potentially interesting skaters in the next couple of years to see how she grow and matures, whether she survives the puberty monster, but for now, she is not quite there. She may have the least artistically offensive package this year from the Russians , but she is still very fresh and still very green, that need to show a few more outings before getting the PCS she is apparently getting.

You have to ask why judges are breaking precedence for this one particular skater, now Liza, Adelina, Julia no longer in the running, it is hardly accidental. Radionova really sabotaged herself with this seasons programs even as fabulous as this little Diva is - and a survivor of the puberty monster. Even the once in a life time talent like Hanyu with his far more superior Romeo and Juliet didn't get anywhere near her inflation during his debut season. Just look at her exhibitions, she is still junior skater learning to find her style. Her LP choreographs programs may be smartly choreographed COP-wise but should be punished for imbalance choreography, and SP is just so so. Although with the judges marking her, desperate and dying to set new records for the past few years and create a new Euro Princess Darling.... she is seen as better than any COP skater that has ever lived - both men and women, is a little insulting to all past champions and what they had to do to earn those PCS - which means if she skate clean, her unprecedented PCS for a debutante will make Carolina's PCS seems criminally undermarked lol...

 

[Tolstoj]

The Ina Bauer is not a flexibility move, though. An Ina Bauer is defined by the position of the feet, the back arch is optional (and it's called a layback Ina Bauer when performed with an arched back).
Wiki article with picture examples, both classic and layback: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ina_Bauer_(element)

FWIW, I find this a good layback Ina Bauer.

Cmon, she doesn't hold for a second.

This is a good layback Ina Bauer.

 

[MiRé]

Cmon, she doesn't hold for a second.

This is a good layback Ina Bauer.

you're forgetting Yuna does Ina Bauer into either 2A, 2A-3T, or 2A-2T-2Lo.

When she does just ina bauer like here, she holds it more than one second, heck longer than Yulia

 

[yuki]

Yuna lays back more than usual in your example, but I would like to see her hold this position for some more time. She only holds for 1 second in that video.

That's because she uses it as a transition in the 2A, not as a standalone element. Mirai Nagasu does a more flexible version of this transition here and here (though Yuna's is more difficult, since she goes directly into the 2A).

I prefer the kind of Ina Bauer that Shizuka and Hanyu do.

Me too, but it's a bit unfair to say that Yuna can't do an Ina Bauer. Most skaters don't have Shizuka's back flexibility.
BTW, if you haven't seen it, here are Shizuka and Yuzuru performing synchronized Ina Bauers: https://youtu.be/kjy9bvUgWjs?t=193

 

[Tolstoj]

For me Medvedeva is easily one of the most potentially interesting skaters in the next couple of years to see how she grow and matures, whether she survives the puberty monster, but for now, she is not quite there. She may have the least artistically offensive package this year from the Russians , but she is still very fresh and still very green, that need to show a few more outings before getting the PCS she is apparently getting.

You have to ask why judges are breaking precedence for this one particular skater, now Liza, Adelina, Julia no longer in the running, it is hardly accidental. Radionova really sabotaged herself with this seasons programs even as fabulous as this little Diva is - and a survivor of the puberty monster. Even the once in a life time talent like Hanyu with his far more superior Romeo and Juliet didn't get anywhere near her inflation during his debut season. Just look at her exhibitions, she is still junior skater learning to find her style. Her LP choreographs programs may be smartly choreographed COP-wise but should be punished for imbalance choreography, and SP is just so so. Although with the judges marking her, desperate and dying to set new records for the past few years and create a new Euro Princess Darling.... she is seen as better than any COP skater that has ever lived - both men and women, is a little insulting to all past champions and what they had to do to earn those PCS - which means if she skate clean, her unprecedented PCS for a debutante will make Carolina's PCS seems criminally undermarked lol...

Her body reminds me a lot a young Mao Asada. She is so slim and slender, i don't think the puberty will affect that much.

About the russian skaters, you always make the mistake to compare all of these ladies, because their stories are different:

- Liza is still a great skater, last year she won everything, but she has problems with consistency, we already saw this on the past. I think she is still able to come back next season better than ever, but overall she is basically Miki Ando 2.0: perfect technique on the jumps but the rest is nothing special compared to other skaters, judges never gave her high PCS.

- Adelina is the Tara Lipinski / Sarah hughes /... of these days: she won the Olympics surprisingly and now i don't know why she is still trying to compete again.

- Julia had problems with the pressure, with Eteri and Ilya, with the puberty... This season is trying to solve it all, so i'm interested to see her improvements in the next GP event.

About PCS: the judges have a different understanding about this side of FS than in the past. It is becoming more like a reputation factor: so if you are a great skater, and you are consistent, your PCS will rise. How much will rise it depends on the interpretation, skating skills, transitions,... Medvedeva at her first senior debut was already a star, she won everything at the junior level with new record scores.

 

[Krislite]

That's not the best example of Ina Bauer. That's more like lifting her arms and yawning. Yuna can't do a biellmann spin either. What I meant to say is that Yuna is not very flexible.

Where were you all these years? Of course she did Biellman spins as recently as 2011: https://youtu.be/oACoz5ekzy8?t=134 I don't mind if you dislike her, just don't spread lies. :noshake:

And as for the Ina Bauer, you switch from "can't do" to "not the best example". There's a big difference between the two, and of course, Ina Bauers ARE NOT required to have layback positions, so again please stop with this nonsense.

 

[kiara_bleu]

Is there such a thing as an unbiased sports fan? :think:

 

[MaxSwagg]

Then how much increase do you think it's fair for 3A-2T? Let's not forget, having 3A itself is a huge advantage especially in the SP (at least it is now).
3F+3Lo is difficult to execute due to 3Lo in the back, but you seem to discount the difficulty of 3Lz itself. 3Lz, difficulty wise, is 2nd most difficult jump to execute due to outside edge.
And did you know Yuna was the only skater to execute 3Lz+3T in both SP and LP back in 2010?, the same goes to how Mao was the only one who did 3A-2T? Considering this, I do think it was "fair" that 3Lz+3T was worth more than 3A-2T if you're talking in terms of difficulty. After all, it's two triples vs one triple, and only two women were able to properly execute these combinations.

What is so flawed about Vancouver? Honestly, I think Yuna's team was smart to use CoP to its maximum potential, vs Mao who was not able to use it in her advantage due to her jump problems with the 3Lz and 3S. Yes 3A is difficult, and Mao fully deserve all the praise for doing it 3 times in one competition, but the lack of 3Lz and 3S shouldn't be avoided.

If I were you, I wouldn't be mad how 3Lz+3T is worth as same as 3F+3Lo, rather I would be questioning how 3T-3T is now worth much closer to 3F+3Lo.

3T needs to be something like 3.9, 3S 4.0, and 3A needs to be 8.8 or 8.9.

 

[Mathman]

Double Axel = 3.3. Triple Axel =9.9

triple toe = 4.0. Quad toe = 12.0.

An extra revolution makes the jump 3 times as hard.

 

[Krislite]

Double Axel = 3.3. Triple Axel =9.9

triple toe = 4.0. Quad toe = 12.0.

An extra revolution makes the jump 3 times as hard.

But then a quint toe would be 36 points, a quad axel 29.7 points, and quad lutz 18 points! The men's competition would get even more interesting.

 

[randomfan]

I don't think Kim's quality of the elements was that good, e.g. her spins are not as good as Evgenia's and Kim can't even do an Ina Bauer. Evgenia has better presentation and posture, and Kim also lips. Not Asada, she has too many underrotation problems.

I fully agree with you about the spins (Evgenia's spins are very lovely ), but better presentation and posture...no. Just no. Presentation is honestly opinion-based these days, so I won't say anything more about it. But Evgenia really does not have the best posture. It sometimes seems like she is muscling through her movements like in some of the jumps and sometimes the step sequence too.

Also Yuna used to lip sometimes, but she fixed that problem in the 2009-2010 season and it didn't bother her anymore (other than the fluke call at 2013 Worlds).

About PCS: the judges have a different understanding about this side of FS than in the past. It is becoming more like a reputation factor: so if you are a great skater, and you are consistent, your PCS will rise. How much will rise it depends on the interpretation, skating skills, transitions,... Medvedeva at her first senior debut was already a star, she won everything at the junior level with new record scores.

And this is the problem. Like I said before presentation is so opinion-based, but like you said it is also reputation-based. That is what's so messed up. You get higher PCS than certain others just for who you are. Of course Evgenia is a much more artistic skater this season than she was last season and she dominated in the junior level too. But 67 in PCS for her first event (especially after receiving 31 in the SP which with the FS factorization would equal 62-63) is way too excessive for her. Furthermore, her best PCS had increased by 5 points over a course of just 2 and a half months. I compared her Skate America and GPF performances, and while she has improved in performance/execution and interpretation during these months, it should only be enough for 2 points. No other skater has been given this much in their senior debut season. And it's not like Evgenia had done a senior GP-junior Worlds season like Elena did; the Challenger Series event was the very first senior event for her and Skate America was the very first senior important international event for her.

Anyways, I'm going to get back to the question. If the WR is beaten this season, I think only Evgenia and maybe Mao would be the ones to break it. But Evgenia has to repeat her GPF performances and Mao has to be clean. Given the current judging pattern, a clean Evgenia will likely be breaking it.

 

[TheCzar]

Excuse me. Her FS may be good, but it is not that good. Julia's Schindler's List captured everyone's imagination during the Olympic season and she played her character well. Medvedeva's may be as good in your opinion, but my god you need to re-evaluate things if you think that free program can touch Asada's legendary Sochi FS.

 

[randomfan]

Excuse me. Her FS may be good, but it is not that good. Julia's Schindler's List captured everyone's imagination during the Olympic season and she played her character well. Medvedeva's may be as good in your opinion, but my god you need to re-evaluate things if you think that free program can touch Asada's legendary Sochi FS.

Uh, that wasn't aimed at me right? You didn't quote anyone so I'm a bit confused who you were responding to. Sorry if I wasn't the one you were responding too...

And yes, I agree. Medvedeva's programs are pretty overrated if you ask me. Her FS is very enjoyable (I do personally like it a bit), but I just can't understand why people say its choreography is unique and spectacular.

 

[kiara_bleu]

Excuse me. Her FS may be good, but it is not that good. Julia's Schindler's List captured everyone's imagination during the Olympic season and she played her character well. Medvedeva's may be as good in your opinion, but my god you need to re-evaluate things if you think that free program can touch Asada's legendary Sochi FS.

I actually love Mao's FS the most of all the female skaters this season. I think if she skates strong she should get much higher PCS scores than anyone else. *Praying to all the gods that Mao gives us a MOMENT at Worlds*

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Excuse me. Her FS may be good, but it is not that good. Julia's Schindler's List captured everyone's imagination during the Olympic season and she played her character well. Medvedeva's may be as good in your opinion, but my god you need to re-evaluate things if you think that free program can touch Asada's legendary Sochi FS.

Mao's program in Sochi was executed magnificently but that music really overwhelmed her. She doesn't skate with the power to match that music. Ito's 1991 Lalique/NHK LP to Rachmaninov was much more the type of skating I would want to see with those kinds of pieces.

 

[mrrice]

Is there such a thing as an unbiased sports fan? :think:

Absolutely Not........Are you kidding? Don't even think it. How boring would ANY sport be without extremely biased fans!!!! Go Patrick!!!!!!! See..