Christine Brennan previews World Ladies

[NanaPat]

Dopers use a combination treatment of EPO and iron. You don't get the full benefit of EPO without iron. But I would think about that iron treatment, I got one a couple of years ago (health supplement, no injection). An internist suggested it to me, I had low levels of iron, but they weren't uncommonly low. He said that many women have far too low iron levels and normally need more iron than men anyway. I felt much better after it. But too much iron is also risky, so I have that monitored regularly.

The EPO treatment was suggested early on, just after the immediate crisis was over. It turned out that iron alone was enough to bring my hemoglobin up rather quickly, so no EPO needed. I've been taking 300mg a day of elemental iron, and being monitored regularly, for over 3 years. That is a massive dose to take orally.

Rather than just ordering more treatments, my family Dr. sent me to a specialist who embarked on a gay round of ultrasounds, cat scans, scopes, other specialist visits, etc to try to figure out the root cause of my problem. They think they have it! At the moment, I'm afraid to leave the province because travel medical insurance is so unreliable, so iron injections are an academic question.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I just took melodonium and I feel great.

 

[LiamForeman]

I just took melodonium and I feel great.

Try a triple axel and land it, and then once you can't be enhanced on melodonium, now see what you can do. What? Nothing. Not even a clean program WITHOUT the 3axel? You poor thing... Dear, Tuk, get back to the back of the Russian skating line....

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Try a triple axel and land it, and then once you can't be enhanced on melodonium, now see what you can do. What? Nothing. Not even a clean program WITHOUT the 3axel? You poor thing... Dear, Tuk, get back to the back of the Russian skating line....

So you know for a fact that she only took it the one year that she won nearly everything or are you making assumptions? It seems strange to me that she wouldn't take it the year of Sochi and instead the year it was added to the watchlist. Doesn't really add up in my mind.

 

[Mathman]

Brennan would say "On Tara's 13th birthday, she got an agent...". Never mind that Kwan "got an agent" when she was 13 too.

Kind of a sobering thought, actually. Back then figure skating in the U.S. was so big that 13-year-old children were getting agents to handle all the fame and riches that were about to fall upon their anointed heads. Now, not so much. (I wonder, though, if Nathan Chen had an agent at 13. (?) )

 

[LiamForeman]

So you know for a fact that she only took it the one year that she won nearly everything or are you making assumptions? It seems strange to me that she wouldn't take it the year of Sochi and instead the year it was added to the watchlist. Doesn't really add up in my mind.

I know nothing for a fact regarding her medical treatment because I am not her physician. Zero. And I am sure that Liza and all those other Russian athletes were taking that drug to "protect" their heart, since most world class athletes have bad hearts. But sometimes it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know something stinks in suburbia. I really don't care if she used Meldonium to enhance last year, because it was legal/allowable. I was almost a crazy fan of Marion Jones back in the day and I even knew she was doing something to enhance her performance at the time but was legal/allowable. I still think Marion Jones is a hero, so sue me. As a friend of well now a former pro tennis athlete, the WADA is relentless, and you just can't really get away with the drug testing. Hmm, unless your name is Andre Agassi. You have to watch EVERY thing you put in your body. He would not even drink with me unless he saw the bottle being opened. He was that paranoid.

 

[mrrice]

Kind of a sobering thought, actually. Back then figure skating in the U.S. was so big that 13-year-old children were getting agents to handle all the fame and riches that were about to fall upon their anointed heads. Now, not so much. (I wonder, though, if Nathan Chen had an agent at 13. (?) )

Back in the late 70's and early 80's it was not unusual to have an agent. I had an agent at 13 and was touring at 15. I don't watch that much TV anymore but, but when I was young, The Partridge Family, Nanny And The Professor, and The Brady Bunch, were prime time shows. Sad......Years before Full House.

 

[Celine]

Have to laugh a little at this comment as most of the national press never watched ice dance competition. Hersh usually arranged most of this group to go out to dinner during the Free Dance. Only in the Olympic season was Hersh et al to be found at the dance finals and almost never in the Short Dance.

I'm sure it's a chuckle, and I agree. Was quite surprised by some of his recent tweets. As if they disregarded the well-known (and still well-followed) path of the major networks and media ignoring ice dance as a discipline, and the charismatic people who have been the champion ice dancers (and have consistently brought home the most 'hardware' for the US for at least a decade now).

Still ... I found it refreshing to have someone who is known for his strong opinions and willingness to express them even brazenly, in a way which is aligned with my view that the press at all levels has been no friend or help to the sport in the US, and to ice dance in particular. Not placing sole blame, not in the least. I know there's a LOT of history and the federation is a whole 'nother story.

But yeah ...'bathroom break'... dinner break, etc. Have heard all about it.

 

[skateluvr]

I like Christine. Nothing she says is particularly controversial.

 

[LiamForeman]

Ouch! Well, Christine Brennan deserves credit for her pioneering work in woman's sports journalism, at a time when there was basically no such thing as a woman sports journalist. In her first book on figure skating, Inside Edge (1996), she tried to show the inside story of what skaters go though, the forces (parental, societal, etc.) that try to package them into picture-oerfect pixies on the ice, etc., plus a lot about the pro skating circuit.

It was her 1998 book Edge of Glory that basically recounted, in glowing terms, Michelle Kwan's marvelous 1997-98 season culminating in the Olympic gol…. Oh bleep, that darned Tara messed up the ending of my book!

What was Brennan anyway? A basketball player? Lacrosse? Soccer? I really don't know... Sorry for misremembering the name of her first book Inside Edge but that book bugged me so much. I already mentioned how the Lipinskis were kind enough to let Brennan into their lives only to be given a hatchet job. (I'm sorry, I'm not a Tara-ist and even I felt for the Lipinskis, no wonder they were media shy after that) I shared the ice with Tara twice and the other times I just watched her practice, and sat by Pat a few times. I think the Lipinskis were really given a raw deal. They were Texas transplants from the northeast like I was, so I could understand them. Anyone who thinks Pat was a stage mother is just ignorant. Anyway, back to Christine. I disliked how she portrayed Rudy Galindo. Again, he opened up, only to have this melodramatic story written about him. I think the chapter was called "Skating's Ugly Secret" or something sinister and gross sounding. Her reference to AIDS, which at the time was killing thousands just seemed so National Enquirer. By the time that book came out, I'd already lost so many people to AIDS, yet she tried to scandalize it, at least that was my take. I hated how she interviewed Mike Weiss's choreographer Brian something or another and got a bit gossipy that Brian admitted to a tryst with an American Olympic medalist and trying to be oh so coy she said the response was from him 'no comment'. Nevermind the only other man she interviewed for her schlock was an American Olympic medalist by the name of Boitano. Come on, no one is that stupid. I kind of hated her after that first book.

I wouldn't be surprised if Shep arranged that second book and all that time with Christine just to put Kween in untouchable greatness. It was so far from fair and balanced I thought Christine was on the Kwan payroll. Quite possibly she was. It was nauseating. Yeah, poor poor Christine with her smug smile and haughtiness had her dream book ruined when Michelle was a loser to Tara. It must have caused poor Christine months of dys-pepsia. Whatever.

 

[hurrah]

TSL & Christine Brennan's stated opinion on doping was totally decent. No controversy what-so-ever. I'm surprised (and not that surprised at the same time) that there's not more of the same stuff being said on this board.

 

[MsLiinaLii]

TSL & Christine Brennan's stated opinion on doping was totally decent. No controversy what-so-ever. I'm surprised (and not that surprised at the same time) that there's not more of the same stuff being said on this board.

What about them saying that Fedichkina and Tsurskaya might have withdrewed because of fear of doping test after FS?
These are young girls, who got injured during the event, when many other skaters+media saw accidents...

 

[hurrah]

What about them saying that Fedichkina and Tsurskaya might have withdrewed because of fear of doping test after FS?
These are young girls, who got injured during the event, when many other skaters+media saw accidents...

Having had the same thought before it was suggested by anyone to me, I did not find it particularly controversial. Of course, it is only conjecture. In my mind, a feasible conjecture.

 

[Lexiglass]

What about them saying that Fedichkina and Tsurskaya might have withdrewed because of fear of doping test after FS?
These are young girls, who got injured during the event, when many other skaters+media saw accidents...

They noted that it was strange that the top two Russian competitors withdrew, and mentioned that it crossed their mind that it could have been related to doping. Liza Tuks was also a young girl when she was taking meldonium, it's hardly impossible that Russian junior skaters would be affected by the ban. I think people really like the idea that TSL is on some kind of witchhunt for Russian skaters when the reality is that they were having a reasonable discussion based on the facts available to them at the time (please note - I'm referring only to the discussion of meldonium. I thought Christine Brennan's other comments about the Russian federation and unfair judging were dated and silly). They didn't say "Fedichkina and Tsurkaya are cheaters!" they said "these two young Russian stars withdrew, and given the meldonium scandal we can't help but wonder if meldonium had any part of it" - that's only controversial if you think any mention of meldonium is anti-Russian conspiracy theorizing.

 

[solani]

They noted that it was strange that the top two Russian competitors withdrew, and mentioned that it crossed their mind that it could have been related to doping. Liza Tuks was also a young girl when she was taking meldonium, it's hardly impossible that Russian junior skaters would be affected by the ban. I think people really like the idea that TSL is on some kind of witchhunt for Russian skaters when the reality is that they were having a reasonable discussion based on the facts available to them at the time (please note - I'm referring only to the discussion of meldonium. I thought Christine Brennan's other comments about the Russian federation and unfair judging were dated and silly). They didn't say "Fedichkina and Tsurkaya are cheaters!" they said "these two young Russian stars withdrew, and given the meldonium scandal we can't help but wonder if meldonium had any part of it" - that's only controversial if you think any mention of meldonium is anti-Russian conspiracy theorizing.

I didn't like that particular comment in the preview. To me there's a difference between talking about and in some cases questioning the results of a skater who admitted to have taken the drug when it was still allowed to take it (Tuktamysheva) and deliberately questioning the results of two underage girls and even assuming that they feigned injuries to avoid doping tests. That was uncalled for. And apart from Bobrova's positive test and Tuktamysheva's admission we have nothing to hold against Russian Figure Skating in general and the girl's skating clubs aren't involved in any of those cases as far as I know. This isn't Russian Track&Field. Russian Figure Skating shouldn't be under general suspicion in my opinion. It's true that they didn't say that those girls are cheaters, but they questioned their credibility.

 

[koatcue]

I didn't like that particular comment in the preview. To me there's a difference between talking about and in some cases questioning the results of a skater who admitted to have taken the drug when it was still allowed to take it (Tuktamysheva) and deliberately questioning the results of two underage girls and even assuming that they feigned injuries to avoid doping tests. That was uncalled for. And apart from Bobrova's positive test and Tuktamysheva's admission we have nothing to hold against Russian Figure Skating in general and the girl's skating clubs aren't involved in any of those cases as far as I know. This isn't Russian Track&Field. Russian Figure Skating shouldn't be under general suspicion in my opinion. It's true that they didn't say that those girls are cheaters, but they questioned their credibility.

That's what makes me sad. If the American withdraws, nobody will think that it was due to doping. It's Russians prerogative, without doubt...:hslap:

 

[skylark]

I'm sure it's a chuckle, and I agree. Was quite surprised by some of his recent tweets. As if they disregarded the well-known (and still well-followed) path of the major networks and media ignoring ice dance as a discipline, and the charismatic people who have been the champion ice dancers (and have consistently brought home the most 'hardware' for the US for at least a decade now).

Sometime around Meryl and Charlie bringing home Oly gold (with a cupboard full of silver and gold medals from Worlds, GPFs, and an Olympic silver) I heard or read an interview with Phil where he was questioned. He said that he didn't consider Ice Dance a sport; and he is a sportswriter. Very stubborn and short-sighted.

 

[Lexiglass]

I didn't like that particular comment in the preview. To me there's a difference between talking about and in some cases questioning the results of a skater who admitted to have taken the drug when it was still allowed to take it (Tuktamysheva) and deliberately questioning the results of two underage girls and even assuming that they feigned injuries to avoid doping tests. That was uncalled for. And apart from Bobrova's positive test and Tuktamysheva's admission we have nothing to hold against Russian Figure Skating in general and the girl's skating clubs aren't involved in any of those cases as far as I know. This isn't Russian Track&Field. Russian Figure Skating shouldn't be under general suspicion in my opinion. It's true that they didn't say that those girls are cheaters, but they questioned their credibility.

I take your point, but I also think you're putting words in their mouths. They didn't ASSUME that they feigned injuries, they mentioned that it was a possibility. I understand why people bristled at the suggestion, of course, it's inflammatory - but I don't think they overstepped by mentioning that the possibility had occurred to them.

The thing is that Bobrova's positive test and Liza's admission ARE powerful pieces of information, together with the fact that so many other Russian athletes tested positive recently - thinking about those facts I wonder: why were these skaters using this drug at all? why did Bobrova keep taking it after it was banned? do her explanations make sense? why does Liza seem to think it's not big deal to use this drug? is it no big deal? did the coaches and officials she dealt with treat it like no big deal? did they pressure her to take it? did they do the same to other skaters? just how old was Liza when she started using it? how many skaters were using this stuff? are other skaters continuing to use it?

I think all of these questions are pretty reasonable. I think commentators should be asking these questions. I don't think that TSL asking these questions about Russian skaters is the same thing as general suspicion, but I appreciate that YMMV. And in this particular case - it WAS a weird coincidence two of the top Russian junior skaters got injured almost simultaneously right before such a big event, and I don't have a problem TSL speculating about that on their skating commentary show before they had all the facts, especially given that TSL has a tendency to speculate about things skaters say ("boot problems!"). I don't want to get carried away defending them, because I do think that it's understandable that this comment rubbed people the wrong way, and if the issue was just that people have different sensitivity to TSL questioning skater's reasons for pulling out of events I would drop it immediately. But I think the issue is deeper - I think some people are trying to make it out like TSL had no basis for discussing the use of meldonium in relation to Russian skaters, and that I disagree with.

 

[moriel]

I take your point, but I also think you're putting words in their mouths. They didn't ASSUME that they feigned injuries, they mentioned that it was a possibility. I understand why people bristled at the suggestion, of course, it's inflammatory - but I don't think they overstepped by mentioning that the possibility had occurred to them.

The thing is that Bobrova's positive test and Liza's admission ARE powerful pieces of information, together with the fact that so many other Russian athletes tested positive recently - thinking about those facts I wonder: why were these skaters using this drug at all? why did Bobrova keep taking it after it was banned? do her explanations make sense? why does Liza seem to think it's not big deal to use this drug? is it no big deal? did the coaches and officials she dealt with treat it like no big deal? did they pressure her to take it? did they do the same to other skaters? just how old was Liza when she started using it? how many skaters were using this stuff? are other skaters continuing to use it?

I think all of these questions are pretty reasonable. I think commentators should be asking these questions. I don't think that TSL asking these questions about Russian skaters is the same thing as general suspicion, but I appreciate that YMMV. And in this particular case - it WAS a weird coincidence two of the top Russian junior skaters got injured almost simultaneously right before such a big event, and I don't have a problem TSL speculating about that on their skating commentary show before they had all the facts, especially given that TSL has a tendency to speculate about things skaters say ("boot problems!"). I don't want to get carried away defending them, because I do think that it's understandable that this comment rubbed people the wrong way, and if the issue was just that people have different sensitivity to TSL questioning skater's reasons for pulling out of events I would drop it immediately. But I think the issue is deeper - I think some people are trying to make it out like TSL had no basis for discussing the use of meldonium in relation to Russian skaters, and that I disagree with.

Hmmmm because this possibility as you call it doesnt make sense? After the Youth Olympics where Tsurskaya won gold and i guess was clean... Because like... Alisa's team and russian fed spend a reasonable amount of money to send her to Worlds and it doesnt make sense - why not WD from home as everybody else does?

But well, if we talk about weird coincidences... Ill tell you something. Did you notice Polina Edmunds WD from Worlds? Thats quite weird, as she has russian relations, her team was probably sneaking meldonium for her to take. This is why she won 4cc last year out of nowhere and this year she probably made up some injury to avoid a ban.

The thing above is just an example of how hypothesis and questions can lead us to weird places. it WAS a weird coincidence that a skate of russian origin WD from Worlds, and i dont have a problem with people speculating that she may be actually doping.

 

[Lexiglass]

Hmmmm because this possibility as you call it doesnt make sense? After the Youth Olympics where Tsurskaya won gold and i guess was clean... Because like... Alisa's team and russian fed spend a reasonable amount of money to send her to Worlds and it doesnt make sense - why not WD from home as everybody else does?

But well, if we talk about weird coincidences... Ill tell you something. Did you notice Polina Edmunds WD from Worlds? Thats quite weird, as she has russian relations, her team was probably sneaking meldonium for her to take. This is why she won 4cc last year out of nowhere and this year she probably made up some injury to avoid a ban.

The thing above is just an example of how hypothesis and questions can lead us to weird places. it WAS a weird coincidence that a skate of russian origin WD from Worlds, and i dont have a problem with people speculating that she may be actually doping.

With all due respect, I think you are deliberately missing my point. It is a pretty big coincidence that two of the top Russian junior skaters got injured at Junior Worlds and had to withdraw. It's unusual for a skater to get injured and have to withdraw at an event to begin with, never mind two - and then for both to be from the same federation? That's weird! That is an actual coincidence. That TSL, a skating commentary outlet, would comment on it is hardly unusual. That, in the midst of a scandal concerning the use of meldonium by figure skaters, a drug that is only available in Eastern Europe and thus almost exclusively used by Russian athletes, they would speculate on whether this coincidence was actually related to meldonium - I'm sorry, but that's hardly mental gymnastics. They were wrong! But not exactly crazy for mentioning it.

The fact that Polina Edmunds is of Russian descent, and also withdrew from Worlds - that is not a coincidence. If you truly can't see the difference between what you said and what I said, than I think it is pretty silly for us to continue to have this conversation.