Moskvina will retire if Kabaguti and Smirnov retire, which is probably considering Kavaguti's injury and their ages.
Russian pairs disaster in Boston- why?
- Thread starter gmyers
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Moskvina will retire if Kabaguti and Smirnov retire, which is probably considering Kavaguti's injury and their ages.
V/T in perfect form, as S/K can beat D/R each time they meet, because non always the difficult jumps and throws are successful, and abov all because Tanya and Xenia are much better to look at than Meagan, even technically.
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Ok, so I've been thinking about this all day, and I'm pretty irritated by it, so pardon the rant that is about to occur.
Normally I cannot stand it when fans say: "Skater X should retire because they've been around for so long and have already won everything, so what's the point in continuing? They're just taking away opportunities from other up and coming skaters!". For situations such as Patrick and Mao, it's obvious that they love being competitive athletes and genuinely missed everything about it during their hiatuses, so in situations such as these, I say: why not continue? If they love the sport so much and still have the ability to compete at top level, who are we to say they shouldn't return? Both have said that its the love of skating that brought them back. Granted, I'm sure the aspiration to win more world and Olympic medals also played a huge part, but it's not their only reason.
But in the case of V&T ... what the hell was the point of returning to competition if they didn't really want to be here? Isn't it a total slap in the face to all the other pairs teams in Russia to not be training as hard as all world class athletes should be training when preparing to attend the biggest competition of the season? If they didn't want to go to worlds, WHY DID THEY GO TO WORLDS??!?!?! This isn't a situation where they are "needed" by their fed - S/K are more than capable of carrying the Russian pairs, not to mention T/M who placed 5th. There are other teams in Russia who have been training hard and would kill for a chance to compete at worlds, but because V/T are seen as Russian skating royalty, they seem to be able to do what they want and the fed accommodates it without batting an eyelash.
It's not right.
I've never been a fan of theirs, but I've always appreciated their talent and style, as I do with ALL top skaters. I try my hardest to be a respectful to everyone in the skating world, regardless of whether or not I am a fan. However, THIS, along with some of the extremely unclassy comments Maxim has made to the media about his main rivals (stooping low enough to insult Meagan Duhamel's physical appearance is what threw me over the edge) makes me lose a lot of respect for them.
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I have seen the Russian pairs a few times this season, at Boston, however, only on the ISU Channel and I wouldn't call it a disaster if you go to Worlds with three pairs, pairs that if gone clean would have won at least one medal, maybe even two.
The Free by Ksenia and Fedor is real art for me, I enjoy how the whole theme of her as the shadow and him as the man is introduced and performed throughout the whole program. It´s one of the best choreographies and idea´s this season in pairs and these two have great acting talent and are super balanced with great transitions. Without the injuries, that program would have been a medal, bronze or silver at least.
Winning a medal is not always what tells you the true story, our German pair won Bronze and I was super happy for them, after all the struggles it was well deserved, but if we are realistic then we must come to the result that there is still a big gap in favor for the Russians.
As for Max & Tati, if you see and talk to them off ice, then they didn´t come back to just skate, they want to win, as Max noted "we still don´t have that cup of china medal". It was only a joke when he said that btw. but to assume skaters just skate because they were bored at home, is a wrong assumption.
Too much hard work is required to prepare for those two skates, you won´t do that just for fun, not caring about the outcome + it would be way to risky to just step on ice, half hearted and Max would never do this, he loves his wife, remember what he said? He can not throw his wife like that, he cares about her and wants to be nice and that´s why the quad is not an option right now.
Max is always stating a bit of truth, even if he jokes around, don´t mistake this for being careless. He would never risk Tati´s health by sitting on the couch drinking a beer, while she does the work in the gym.
Evgenia and Vladimir are very talented, but with 21 and 23 still the new kids around the block. They will have their best years after 2018, while Meagan and Eric are almost 10 years older and will skate their best at the Olympics 2018. Pairs skating should not be compared to ladies or men, regarding the moment when skaters are at their best. Pairs skating has a different cycle, with the champions being in the mid to late 20´s or even older.
Right now, Evgenia looks stronger on ice, she has always been the one who could take the stars from the sky, she is strong, mature and sexy, I love her landings and expression, she makes her skating look comfortable and she seldom does mistakes. For me, she is one of the best ladies currently around her age and above.
If Vladimir can loosen up a bit more, especially during the lifts, to make it look more effortless (right now he tends to look down on the ice), then they will also get more points from the judges. He is strong, they can do all the difficult elements and the transitions like the spread eagle after the throws, show a confidence and believe in their skating, else Nina & Robin wouldn't let them do that, as you lose said transition if you fall.
The juniors these days, have very strong male skaters, as the coaches understood the importance of that role, the "older" skaters, were coached different I believe, or the pool was just thinner, I don´t know. A Robin, Maxim or Fedor doesn´t wait at every corner, even though Vladimir is anything but that typical truck driver, it´s really not impossible, give him a bit more time and he will be able to skate along Evgenia better. They have the alignment already, now they just need to work a bit on his posture, to try and match her effortless skating and strong SS better. Look at Eric, he has definitely improved over the years and he was much older, when people used to call him out for the lack of artistry. There is no reason why Vladimir shouldn't be able to achieve similar over time and he is much further already as well, it´s really just the posture during lifts and the lightness in his footwork - it´s a little mismatch right now, but they will fix that I am sure.
But we should also not forget the Russian pairs in Juniors, they are very good already, do all the difficult things and have great balance on ice. If the girls can survive puberty and the boys don´t get distracted by beautiful woman, then the Russian pairs will not disappear, after 2018 or 2022.
I have seen the Russian pairs a few times this season, at Boston, however, only on the ISU Channel and I wouldn't call it a disaster if you go to Worlds with three pairs, pairs that if gone clean would have won at least one medal, maybe even two.
The Free by Ksenia and Fedor is real art for me, I enjoy how the whole theme of her as the shadow and him as the man is introduced and performed throughout the whole program. It´s one of the best choreographies and idea´s this season in pairs and these two have great acting talent and are super balanced with great transitions. Without the injuries, that program would have been a medal, bronze or silver at least.
Winning a medal is not always what tells you the true story, our German pair won Bronze and I was super happy for them, after all the struggles it was well deserved, but if we are realistic then we must come to the result that there is still a big gap in favor for the Russians.
As for Max & Tati, if you see and talk to them off ice, then they didn´t come back to just skate, they want to win, as Max noted "we still don´t have that cup of china medal". It was only a joke when he said that btw. but to assume skaters just skate because they were bored at home, is a wrong assumption.
Too much hard work is required to prepare for those two skates, you won´t do that just for fun, not caring about the outcome + it would be way to risky to just step on ice, half hearted and Max would never do this, he loves his wife, remember what he said? He can not throw his wife like that, he cares about her and wants to be nice and that´s why the quad is not an option right now.
Max is always stating a bit of truth, even if he jokes around, don´t mistake this for being careless. He would never risk Tati´s health by sitting on the couch drinking a beer, while she does the work in the gym.
Evgenia and Vladimir are very talented, but with 21 and 23 still the new kids around the block. They will have their best years after 2018, while Meagan and Eric are almost 10 years older and will skate their best at the Olympics 2018. Pairs skating should not be compared to ladies or men, regarding the moment when skaters are at their best. Pairs skating has a different cycle, with the champions being in the mid to late 20´s or even older.
Right now, Evgenia looks stronger on ice, she has always been the one who could take the stars from the sky, she is strong, mature and sexy, I love her landings and expression, she makes her skating look comfortable and she seldom does mistakes. For me, she is one of the best ladies currently around her age and above.
If Vladimir can loosen up a bit more, especially during the lifts, to make it look more effortless (right now he tends to look down on the ice), then they will also get more points from the judges. He is strong, they can do all the difficult elements and the transitions like the spread eagle after the throws, show a confidence and believe in their skating, else Nina & Robin wouldn't let them do that, as you lose said transition if you fall.
The juniors these days, have very strong male skaters, as the coaches understood the importance of that role, the "older" skaters, were coached different I believe, or the pool was just thinner, I don´t know. A Robin, Maxim or Fedor doesn´t wait at every corner, even though Vladimir is anything but that typical truck driver, it´s really not impossible, give him a bit more time and he will be able to skate along Evgenia better. They have the alignment already, now they just need to work a bit on his posture, to try and match her effortless skating and strong SS better. Look at Eric, he has definitely improved over the years and he was much older, when people used to call him out for the lack of artistry. There is no reason why Vladimir shouldn't be able to achieve similar over time and he is much further already as well, it´s really just the posture during lifts and the lightness in his footwork - it´s a little mismatch right now, but they will fix that I am sure.
But we should also not forget the Russian pairs in Juniors, they are very good already, do all the difficult things and have great balance on ice. If the girls can survive puberty and the boys don´t get distracted by beautiful woman, then the Russian pairs will not disappear, after 2018 or 2022.
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:sarcasm:
No need to make excuses for them nor to put down their competitors,
They just didn't compete well enough here, That doesn't take away from all the great skating they gave us thus far in their career, And hopefully to come.
As for Duhamel\Radford, They made the World Podium 4 years in a row now, and never lower than 2nd in the Short,
They have back to back Wins and were undefeated for a whole season last year,
Eric is the first Openly Gay skater to win Worlds, Was "Outsports" and "Icenetworks" Athlete of the year,
Meagan is one of the most praised Athletes in the Vegan community,
And this week they probably won at least the respect of even the people who don't find their skating their personal cup of tea,
So i think they'll be feeling pretty "decent" with what they leave behind even if they stopped skating tomorrow.
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- Feb 16, 2014
Where is the proof that that ever happened? I see GSers insulting her now and then (like in this thread), and now it seems people are misattributing it to Max. Unless there is a video, audio or print interview that proves he said such a thing, I don't believe it. I clearly remember Megan and Eric taking potshots at Max in their TSL interview though.
In reviewing some of what was written in the Russian press, One of the reasons for the Russian pairs' underwhelming showing at worlds might be the fact that they have not significantly increased the level of difficulty of their programs since their triumph at the Olympics. Max Trankov has been very vocal that quad jumps and throws is not the right direction for the future of pairs skating, and he seems to have quite a bit of influence in Russian skating. Coupled with the fact that the lion's share of the state's funding for pairs is concentrated in Nina Mozer's team, they were able to silence many of the opposing views, i.e. Arthur Dmitriev, Tamara Moskvina, Oleg Vasilev. When competition is fierce internally, you see a lot of progress in increased complexity and difficulty of programs. Mozer's team didn't face that internal rivalry with other coaching teams ( to a large extent) - and that was probably not very conducive to pushing boundaries.
They are completely wrong. All Mozer's pairs including VT worked on quads. And all got injuries during that work. But the only pair who works on quads without injury is DR at the moment. Maybe Mozer and coaches do something wrong - but who of coaches succeeded immidiatly in that work? KS worked on 4Sth almost for 6 years before they began to make it good, chineze pairs still get injuries on quads despite coaches try to learn their skaters do it for a long time. So nothing surprining in the fact all the Mozer's teams are not in their best conditions... Coaches just need a time to learn how to learn others.
I hope in whatever they try to do to remedy the problem, they don't throw the baby with the bathwater. The think that struck me seeing pairs inBoston was the high-level of quality all three Russian pairs had. Great stroking, smooth twists and throws and beautiful line. I suppose that is what some are lamenting -- that other teams are winning with technical elements and that the underlying pairs skating is not being rewarded enough.
I make that point to say, that yes Boston was relatively problematic. At the same time, it's important to remember they have that foundation that will always make Russia a factor in pairs skating. That should not deemphasized.
I make that point to say, that yes Boston was relatively problematic. At the same time, it's important to remember they have that foundation that will always make Russia a factor in pairs skating. That should not deemphasized.
To my mind, russian pairs' performance wasn't so bad, taking in acount that S/K were injured (they deserves the bronce to my mind), V/T weren't in their best moment and T/M are still very young.
I missed K/S a lot...
I think that the results in ice dance were more terrible. And above all, the worst performance by a russian skater was Maxim Katvun's one (is happening to him the same than Gachinski un his last seasons?)
I missed K/S a lot...
I think that the results in ice dance were more terrible. And above all, the worst performance by a russian skater was Maxim Katvun's one (is happening to him the same than Gachinski un his last seasons?)
To my mind, russian pairs' performance wasn't so bad, taking in acount that S/K were injured (they deserved the bronce medal to my mind), V/T weren't in their best moment and T/M are still very young.
I missed K/S a lot...
I think that the results in ice dance were more terrible. And above all, the worst performance by a russian skater was Maxim Katvun's one (is happening to him the same than Gachinski in his last seasons?)
I missed K/S a lot...
I think that the results in ice dance were more terrible. And above all, the worst performance by a russian skater was Maxim Katvun's one (is happening to him the same than Gachinski in his last seasons?)
Exactly the problem I have with the development of pairs skating since Sochi. The quads and high difficulty can suppress the original idea of the relationship between man and woman at times.
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- Oct 15, 2014
I agree to a certain extend.
They have increased their level of difficulty: Stolbova & Klimov replaced their 3T2T2T with a 3T3T2T and their 2A with 3S. Working to upgrade their throws but got injuried. Volosozhar & Trankov added a throw 3F. Tarasova/Morozov a Quad Twist (not sure why they opted for a triple twist at Worlds). Zabijako/Enbert on throw 3Axel but got injuried. And let's not forget that Kavaguti/Smirnov had 2 Quad Throws in their LP this year.
Did they start working on these elements too late? Yes, probably. Duhamel & Radford started landing throw quads last season but they've probably been working on it for way longer. They've had SBS 3Lz since they started skating together. Sui/Han have been trying Quad twist and Quad throw since they've been Juniors. Kavaguti/Smirnov have been trying throw quads in competition since 2007/2008 I believe. And these 3 teams are the only teams who have landed throw quads this year (Full Base value + positive GOE).
I also don't believe that Nina Mozer's Team silenced anyone. These Russian Coaches are blunt and speak their minds in interviews, they are not PC which I like. Oleg Vasiliev especially has been very vocal about the funding situation, the training conditions (ice time, living arrangement for skaters, team of doctors,...) in Moscow vs St-Petersburg. IIRC Alexei Mishin even joked that Tuktamysheva did a lot of small competitons last year because she had more ice time there than at home in St-Petersburg.
The "Team Mozer gets 99% of the funding for pairs" has been going on since both Bazarova/Larionov and Stolbova/Klimov decided to move there in 2013, which meant that she suddenly had the top 3 Russian Pairs and the full Olympic Team because Kavaguti/Smirnov got injuried.
Edit: Tamara Moskvina's take on the Russian Pairs at Worlds.
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Kovtun is the same as he always is! When your debut is so awful but you don't get treated negatively you can't be a gachinski whose support evaporated after 2012 worlds and the federation declared his career over. Kovtun has flopped many times now and support for him has never wavered in the federation. If a feeling of abandonment hurt gachinski that is not close to happening to kovtun.
A
Mozer has been criticized for all these injuries. Who says she can coach skaters doing these harder technical elements right?
Mozer has been criticized for all these injuries. Who says she can coach skaters doing these harder technical elements right?
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