Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season | Page 637 | Golden Skate

Yuzuru Hanyu: 2015-16 Season

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Official statement or not , I honestly think the whole incident is a serious warning call for Yuzu's next competitions , since Yuzu showed to be vulnerable and not so good in handling it with media because of the enormous pressure he had on his shoulders , while his team/federation didn't function as a filter to protect him and to avoid an obvious loss of concentration and mental balance. Then it is easy to instrumentalize the episode and to turn the victim into an executioner. But next WC, next Oly a similar event can always happen.
Duoble standard applied , Yuzu shares credits when he wins , Yuzu takes all the responsability when things go wrong.
I agree that Japanese Federation should take a part of responsibility for the way the conflict situation has been handled. They should have guided him prior to the interview on how the situation should have been commented in order to avoid escalation of the conflict. I guess they thought that as he has always been so polite he can handle it in his usual manner. He made an honest mistake, he was stressed and he said what he said. They should have reconsiled prior to LP officially thus the situation would have died by itself. Instead they let rumors about possible protest from Federation flood the news and then let other Federation play the cards in their favor.

But what I totally dislike in the way to say it- you victimize Yuzu yourself. And if you want to support him then face the fact- he made a mistake any person uder enormous stress could have made. He apologized. You have to apologize him too and let him be same Yuzu you know, love and respect.

He had learned from this mistake, he will know how to act about it in future if anything like that ever repeats.
 
We’re not turning a deaf ear to this matter. We're just trying to stay reasonable and respect Yuzuru's decision because we think what he did was sensible.

For those who are persistently bringing up the incident, please step back and try to look at the issue from a legal rather than sentimental perspective.
I admit that I’m not a legal professional nor am I a legal expert, but I would like to share a piece of my thought based on my little knowledge of law. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

Yuzuru told the media, “I felt what he did was probably intentional.”

We might go into Semantics and argue endlessly about meaning, but it doesn’t really matter, because what transpired in the general public mind (pragmatically-speaking) is that Yuzuru made an allegation that the other party had the intent of committing the wrongful act and breaching the standard of conduct. Yuzuru could have been more tactful and indirect by saying “He interrupted me twice when my music was playing the previous day. I brought this to his attention and we talked over it after practice, but he interrupted me again during the practice today. I felt that he was negligent. He did not abide by the standard of conduct. I lost my temper and yelled at him.”

The word 'intentional' used by Yuzuru here has a strong sense. I won’t fault Yuzuru for not having had the presence of mind to phrase his words diplomatically, because who wouldn’t blow their fuse and lose their presence of mind if they’re being constantly interfered like this? I know I would. It’s not a one-off incident, but continuing events that caused him to arrive at such opinion.

But from a legal perspective, there are several requirements for this incident to be considered as a case of intentional tort:
a. A duty of care: Denis has the responsibility/obligation to abide by the code of conduct, i.e. the unwritten rule that skater whose music is playing has the right of way. Even though the rule is unwritten, it is still debatable. Though I wish ISU had this rule in writing.
b. Intentional breach of duty of care: Denis violated the code of conduct by interfering Yuzuru’s path three times when his music was playing, but is there enough evidence that indisputably proves that the act was more than likely intentional on the balance of probabilities? Sure, we have the video clip, but it's not enough to attest to the 'intentional' claim made by Yuzuru. Denis might simply have been negligent.
c. Tangible or intangible loss on the part of the claimant and causality: Any significant physical or mental damage to Yuzuru as the result of the wrongful conduct? No. Harm to reputation? Maybe, but is it significant enough to cause his federation or agency to lay him off? No. Is it significant enough to disrupt his life? No.

No matter how I see it, it’s Yuzuru’s case to lose. Had he said ‘negligent’ instead of ‘intentional’, the case could have been resolved in favor of Yuzuru, Kazakhtan Federation would have relented, and Denis/his federation would have no choice but to apologize to him. But what’s being circulated by the media, domestic and overseas alike, is the strong word ‘intentional’, which prompted Kazakhtan Federation to view it as an accusation and defamation of character as it has caused harm to Denis’s reputation and subjected him to mental anguish due to the slanders he received on the social network. Of course, we expect Denis/his federation to apologize, but had he done so, he would have effectively admitted to intentional violation of rule, while it could have been that he was just negligent. That would be a huge blow to his pride and reputation.

I applaud Yuzuru for his commendable action of taking the initiative to resolve the conflict by offering a handshake as a gesture of reconciliation. Had the incident been blown out of proportion more than it has been, had JSF brought the case to ISU to be reviewed, and had he lost the case, I can’t imagine the repercussion it would have had on Yuzuru’s reputation. It might have worsened instead of redeeming his image in the public eyes. He can’t risk it. JSF can’t risk it. That's why I was saying regardless of whether the other party has apologized or not, we should let it go. In the end, if we ignore this incident, it will blow over sooner or later. As long as he keeps winning and getting medals, people will quickly forget about this incident.

Thank you very much for your easy to understand and objective view on the whole picture. I agree on everything that you said. Although it's bitter, it is what it is. And again I amazed by yuzu's maturity to recognize the problem in objectively and proceed accordingly. Ordinary people would be so fumed and make everiything worse. But yuzu and jsf proceed accordingly.
 
I agree that Japanese Federation should take a part of responsibility for the way the conflict situation has been handled. They should have guided him prior to the interview on how the situation should have been commented in order to avoid escalation of the conflict. I guess they thought that as he has always been so polite he can handle it in his usual manner. He made an honest mistake, he was stressed and he said what he said. They should have reconsiled prior to LP officially thus the situation would have died by itself. Instead they let rumors about possible protest from Federation flood the news and then let other Federation play the cards in their favor.

But what I totally dislike in the way to say it- you victimize Yuzu yourself. And if you want to support him then face the fact- he made a mistake any person uder enormous stress could have made. He apologized. You have to apologize him too and let him be same Yuzu you know, love and respect.

He had learned from this mistake, he will know how to act about it in future if anything like that ever repeats.


Honestly you make me smile , but it is a sad smile : I already know Yuzu is completely alone when he's in trouble, his team/federation don't support him, they only share credits when he is successful. This is reality and nothing else, unfortunately.
 
Honestly you make me smile , but it is a sad smile : I already know Yuzu is completely alone when he's in trouble, his team/federation don't support him, they only share credits when he is successful. This is reality and nothing else, unfortunately.
If you want him to be a lonely victim in your head- that it your choice. Not mine.
 
But what I totally dislike in the way to say it- you victimize Yuzu yourself. And if you want to support him then face the fact- he made a mistake any person uder enormous stress could have made. He apologized. You have to apologize him too and let him be same Yuzu you know, love and respect.

He had learned from this mistake, he will know how to act about it in future if anything like that ever repeats.[/QUOTE]

shaking hands is not the same as apologize. Yuzu did not apologize, because he did not do anything wrong.
 
Please note that Admin will do a clean-up on this thread as they have done this past week. The last thing we want is this thread to be closed.

As zydeco88 said "we’re not turning a deaf ear to this matter. We're just trying to stay reasonable and respect Yuzuru's decision".

Let's make this thread a positive place like it was once before.

German commentary with English subs of Yuzu's ex. Really love the respect that he gave to Yuzu https://youtu.be/ahMdqq6JqrE
 
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No its not, Denis real insta is tenis_den. Honestly, both Yuzuru and Denis got over it and we should too. The talk about the next season is way better.

I hope next year him and Denis have a bling bling battle and after each event they add more bling to their clothes.....on and off the ice. I absolutely love both skaters but an epic costume battle of the bling would be unprecedented. :cool:
 
No matter how I see it, it’s Yuzuru’s case to lose. Had he said ‘negligent’ instead of ‘intentional’, the case could have been resolved in favor of Yuzuru, Kazakhtan Federation would have relented, and Denis/his federation would have no choice but to apologize to him. But what’s being circulated by the media, domestic and overseas alike, is the strong word ‘intentional’, which prompted Kazakhtan Federation to view it as an accusation and defamation of character as it has caused harm to Denis’s reputation and subjected him to mental anguish due to the slanders he received on the social network. Of course, we expect Denis/his federation to apologize, but had he done so, he would have effectively admitted to intentional violation of rule, while it could have been that he was just negligent. That would be a huge blow to his pride and reputation.
You explained it perfectly ( I have two law degrees/Germany).
I didnt want to bring it up before, I was afraid of blaming Hanyu and getting beaten.
Even if Hanyu was right, even it was intentionally by Tens side, Hanyu never could prove it. Its all about prove. A lot of people all around the world got mad because the right was on their side but they couldnt prove it - its Hanyus case to prove it because he accuses. And he never could prove intention. Therefore it was good the case closed like this.

Dont give way to others on the ice- especially in Russia the coaches say:"go...go!!" even if the space on the ice is restricted. On a pretty crowded day on the ice ( I dont tell where, its better not to cause irritations) I myself heard that "weiter !" of a Russian coach and his pupils were jumping very close to me. The japanese girls on the ice conceded to me and they had a pretty high skating level ( tried 2 A). There are children who are educated NOT to concede and for them its normal just to skate their line and to jump even if they are very close to each other. For them its normal.
Daisuke Takahasi (during an interwiew 2014): "When I watch russian girls, they skate so close to each other, I get afraid, but these girls dont bother, its normal for them it seems to me. The men normally dont do that".
Denis Ten: Did he not notice that Hanyu was irritated ? I cant believe it. But thats guess-work (no prove).

Anyway, Hanyus nerves were on edge. Everyone sometimes "gets through the roof", its human. I like Hanyu still more after this incident.
 
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Hi, just want to give my 2 cents here.

I think the discussion about intentional torts is not really relevant, Yuzuru is not suing Denis in court for a tort or anything. In any case there was no collision so there is no damage to build a court case on. Yuzuru just said he felt it was intentional.

As for defamation, I would agree it's safer to say it was "negligent" instead of "intentional". However I don't think Yuzuru defamed Denis. It's not defamation if someone states their opinion. Of course Yuzuru cannot be let off the hook just by tacking on "it's my opinion" after saying something. But I think his actual statement was opinion because he supported it with facts that he drew the inference of intention from. He said he felt like it was intentional because from the video, he saw that Denis had seen him coming before entering into a spin in a way which Denis usually does not enter his spin. It was a reasonably-formed opinion, I would say. Not the most PR thing to say but I don't think it was defamation nonetheless.

I'm sorry if no one wants me to bring this up again. I just feel the need to say that Yuzuru did not defame anyone. ):

EDIT: Also I don't think Denis could not have apologised without effectively admitting to intentionally obstructing Yuzuru. He could have said, "I'm sorry for breaking the rules but I want to reiterate that I did not do it on purpose. I was only careless."
 
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Compared to other movements, is a 3 turn difficult? Yuzu's got 17 of them so at first I thought it's an easy filler but then I saw Boyang has only 2.
The difficulty of the transitions also depends on where you use it. For example counter is the most difficult (in my opinion) but if you just do it without any elements go along with it, it's certainly easier than Counter + 3A (like Yuzuru often does).
Spread eagle is not too difficult to some people, but spread eagle JUMP spread eagle like Yuzuru does, it is super difficult.
 
Compared to other movements, is a 3 turn difficult? Yuzu's got 17 of them so at first I thought it's an easy filler but then I saw Boyang has only 2.

The 3 turn is theorically the easiest. But the chart doesn't count the mohawks which is a turn but with a foot change, and which is let's say as easy as the 3, and used massively by the skaters who have not to much transitions, and lot of crossovers.
 
The 3 turn is theorically the easiest. But the chart doesn't count the mohawks which is a turn but with a foot change, and which is let's say as easy as the 3, and used massively by the skaters who have not to much transitions, and lot of crossovers.
Yeah 3-turn is basically the easiest. And for some reason the article did not add mohawk and choctaw in the list, but they are listed in the jump and transitions analysis. There might be a reason why the author wrote it that way, but my Russian is basically zero so I need help from Russian posters.
 
I'm sorry if no one wants me to bring this up again. I just feel the need to say that Yuzuru did not defame anyone. ):

I don't think he said it with the intention to defame anyone. He just said what he felt at the time. I don't think he said anything with ill intention. The problem is he said it in front of reporters. He is a big name. Anything he says is made into a big deal by the press, even if it isn't a big deal, and it triggered massive reaction from his fans. Basically the reporters and his fans targeted (or even "harassed") Denis after what he told the press. The problem with being a star is that he cannot casually share his personal feelings with the public.

I think we should move on from this topic. They have reconciled.
 
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Sorry if my previous comment sounds aggressive or offensive, I just wanted to clear the situation from the view of Mao fan
and usually I have nothing against Korean people if they are nice off course. :)

If you are a Yuzuru fan and supporting him no matter what her/his nationality, where they come from. Here, we have no boundaries. Yuzu fans unite. :ghug:
 
I don't think he said it with the intention to defame anyone. He just said what he felt at the time. I don't think he said anything with ill intention. The problem is he said it in front of reporters. He is a big name. Anything he says is made into a big deal by the press, even if it isn't a big deal, and it triggered massive reaction from his fans. Basically the reporters and his fans targeted (or even "harassed") Denis after what he told the press. The problem with being a star is that he cannot casually share his personal feelings with the public.

I think we should move on from this topic. They have reconciled.

Yeah, it was careless of him. I just want to clarify that it was not defamation even though it was careless.

The media made a big deal of it and not many press articles translated the part where Yuzu reasonably supported his allegations with some facts. They made him seem unreasonable. I think Yuzuru was angry, maybe a bit careless, but not an unreasonable person that throws around accusations without at least some facts to support it.

I think fans should at least be told this side of the story even though Yuzuru and Denis have reconciled. It matters to us (to me especially) what kind of person Yuzuru is.

ETA: I'm not saying that Yuzuru is a saint that made no mistakes. I'm just saying his mistake was "being careless in speaking his (reasonably-formed) opinion in front of the media" not "defamation" or "unreasonable accusation".
 
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Ok, I think we've all gotten to have our say on this topic from every possible angle. But back on topic...there's a Kiritoru TV episode happening very soon so we'll get to see clips of that shortly. :biggrin:
 
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