Yu/Jin & Peng/Zhang switch partners

[tulosai]

:gaah: The thought comes to mind that Yu could just defect while in Canada and live happily ever after. We can all dream, right?

Yu travels internationally enough that defection is probably a legitimate option for her assuming that a country would agree to take her, either to Canada now or if she prefers to somewhere else later, but I think it's important to keep in mind that defection is a major step and there could be a whole lot of reasons, no matter how dissatisfied she is with the Chinese fed, that she wouldn't want to do it. The most obvious one is that there is a real chance she'd never see her family again. Not rarely see them, but literally never see them. It's also hard to give up your whole life and everything you know, even when that life is bad in many ways, for an uncertain future where things might be bad too, just in different ways.

 

[solani]

Yu travels internationally enough that defection is probably a legitimate option for her assuming that a country would agree to take her, either to Canada now or if she prefers to somewhere else later, but I think it's important to keep in mind that defection is a major step and there could be a whole lot of reasons, no matter how dissatisfied she is with the Chinese fed, that she wouldn't want to do it. The most obvious one is that there is a real chance she'd never see her family again. Not rarely see them, but literally never see them. It's also hard to give up your whole life and everything you know, even when that life is bad in many ways, for an uncertain future where things might be bad too, just in different ways.

I agree and I doubt that the Chinese Fed would release her so that she could skate for another country. I just hope that everything works out well, for all skaters involved.

 

[Lota]

I need a Trankov comment to cope with this. :sad21:

I'm also wondering how he'd react to this. I remember he was a guest commentator for one of the Grand Prix events last season (I think it was 2014 GPF), and he commented how he thought that Yu/Jin were the team with the most future potential out of all the Chinese pairs' teams. Moving in the best direction. Not rushing with the quads, but moving at their own pace and working on their technique and artistry.

What with him being back in the sport, I don't think he has much time to follow news like that (or even care about this particular team), but if he - or any other skaters really - has an opinion about this, I would LOVE to hear it.

 

[karne]

I agree and I doubt that the Chinese Fed would release her so that she could skate for another country. I just hope that everything works out well, for all skaters involved.

Out of curiosity, I wonder, if a skater defected like in this circumstance, if there is a loophole in the ISU rulebook surrounding that. Because I mean, defection is a huge step and they don't belong to that country any more, so does said country really have the right to not release them?

 

[moriel]

I'm also wondering how he'd react to this. I remember he was a guest commentator for one of the Grand Prix events last season (I think it was 2014 GPF), and he commented how he thought that Yu/Jin were the team with the most future potential out of all the Chinese pairs' teams. Moving in the best direction. Not rushing with the quads, but moving at their own pace and working on their technique and artistry.

What with him being back in the sport, I don't think he has much time to follow news like that (or even care about this particular team), but if he - or any other skaters really - has an opinion about this, I would LOVE to hear it.

Yup, he seemed to like them, and also he is quite not PC most of the time, and i would love to hear someone FS related to say it out loud.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Out of curiosity, I wonder, if a skater defected like in this circumstance, if there is a loophole in the ISU rulebook surrounding that. Because I mean, defection is a huge step and they don't belong to that country any more, so does said country really have the right to not release them?

Now that is a good question.

So, to get an idea of what might happen, I started looking up skaters who had defected to the West during the Cold War. Well, I looked for skaters on the list on this Wikipedia Page:

List of Soviet and Eastern Bloc defectors

And I was surprised to find only 4 names:

Alena Vrzáňová (CZE) in 1950
Ludmila Belousova / Oleg Protopopov (RUS) in 1979
Gorsha Sur (RUS) in 1990

Although Sur was the only one mentioned on that list, he was actually accompanied by:

Elena Krykanova (RUS)
Veronica Pershina (RUS)
Igor Shpilband (RUS)

The Protopopovs, Krykanova, Pershina and Shpilband were already retired from competitive skating when they defected.

Vrzáňová defected at the 1950 World Championships (which she won), and never competed again.

Sur sat out for 2 seasons after his defection, and then came back with an American partner (Renée Roca), representing the USA. They competed together for 4 seasons, winning the American Ice Dance title twice, and then retired.

So, it can go either way.

But, personally, I think there's far too much to give up if you defect. Better to just find a foreign partner, and ask to be released.

And hope that the CSA won't be like the FFSG...

CaroLiza_fan

 

[gabriele]

Yu travels internationally enough that defection is probably a legitimate option for her assuming that a country would agree to take her, either to Canada now or if she prefers to somewhere else later, but I think it's important to keep in mind that defection is a major step and there could be a whole lot of reasons, no matter how dissatisfied she is with the Chinese fed, that she wouldn't want to do it. The most obvious one is that there is a real chance she'd never see her family again. Not rarely see them, but literally never see them. It's also hard to give up your whole life and everything you know, even when that life is bad in many ways, for an uncertain future where things might be bad too, just in different ways.

As someone who migrated to the other side of the world 25 years ago, I can appreciate your point. Letters took about a fortnight and phone calls cost about $5/minute which was a lot of money back then. Lucky there is Skype, Facebook ect now. Defecting was just a thought that crossed my mind as she seems stuck between a rock and a hard place. What are the consequences of not complying, ie. will she ever have a career in skating or anything else for that matter? Will this be felt by her family as well?

 

[Violet Bliss]

People don't defect these days. They immigrate.

 

[JayW]

:gaah: The thought comes to mind that Yu could just defect while in Canada and live happily ever after. We can all dream, right?

Yu travels internationally enough that defection is probably a legitimate option for her assuming that a country would agree to take her, either to Canada now or if she prefers to somewhere else later, but I think it's important to keep in mind that defection is a major step and there could be a whole lot of reasons, no matter how dissatisfied she is with the Chinese fed, that she wouldn't want to do it. The most obvious one is that there is a real chance she'd never see her family again. Not rarely see them, but literally never see them. It's also hard to give up your whole life and everything you know, even when that life is bad in many ways, for an uncertain future where things might be bad too, just in different ways.

"Defect" sounds so cold war. I am assuming you guys didn't go to China in recent years/decades.

It is THE place where money is. Elite athletes make huge money from advertisements and endorsements.

Defectors or asylum seekers come to west mainly due to political reasons.

 

[gabriele]

People don't defect these days. They immigrate.

Well, English isn't my first language. Maybe it would be asylum seeking rather than defecting? Not an ordinary immigration through one of the foreign embassies in your home country is what I meant.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

People don't defect these days. They immigrate.

Most of the time, yes. But, it does still happen occasionally. So, since that was the suggestion that gabriele made, that is what I explored.

But, just a wee grammatical note about your comment.

"Immigrate" is when you arrive in a country. "Emigrate" is when you leave a country.

Both do work in this statement. Personally, I think "emigrate" sounds better. But, it all depends on what slant you want to take.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[gabriele]

"Defect" sounds so cold war. I am assuming you guys didn't go to China in recent years/decades.

It is THE place where money is. Elite athletes make huge money from advertisements and endorsements.

Defectors or asylum seekers come to west mainly due to political reasons.

It's the consequence of non-compliance, what we are concerned about. Monetary rewards is probably not the distinguishing criteria here, the sports stars of the old cold war days had a privileged life too.

 

[JayW]

It's the consequence of non-compliance, what we are concerned about. Monetary rewards is probably not the distinguishing criteria here, the sports stars of the old cold war days had a privileged life too.

What is the consequence of non-compliance you are talking about?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Come on people, it's a new millenium. Time to throw away ideas about the world which were not even accurate back decades ago. These days many people are emigrating from perceived safe and prosperous haven to greener pastures.

On what grounds does Yu have to seek asylum? Something frivolous like not being able to skate with her preferred partner? Refugees in dire straits are being turned away, immediately or after being confined, sometimes deported after long years of fighting to stay for their lives.

Even in the old days, defections were not necessarily what the Western press made it out to be for political reasons. I was personally told by one of the most famous defectors of the time that he left China purely to pursue artistic freedom and opportunities and he did not have any bad blood with the Chinese authorities, contrary to the propaganda. This world famous and acclaimed musician has since returned to live, perform, teach, and contribute to music in China. Yu has neither the high status nor political climate of those days to take advantage of.

 

[gabriele]

What is the consequence of non-compliance you are talking about?

Other people up-thread suggested her choice is between doing what she is told or retire. You seem to have some background. Is her career likely over, if she dares to give a polite thanks, but no, thanks to the swap now?

 

[tulosai]

It's the consequence of non-compliance, what we are concerned about. Monetary rewards is probably not the distinguishing criteria here, the sports stars of the old cold war days had a privileged life too.

Additionally, a lot of the money the Chinese skaters earn goes directly back to the fed. I don't know enough to say definitively how much of it, but I'd be comfortable venturing to say that it's the vast majority.

 

[solani]

Other people up-thread suggested her choice is between doing what she is told or retire. You seem to have some background. Is her career likely over, if she dares to give a polite thanks, but no, thanks to the swap now?

Probably. Also because we don't know what Jin's reaction is. Maybe he is compliant. The result of the competiton shortly before Worlds where they came in 4th seems to be fishy, so maybe he thinks that he'd better comply to not have his career at risk. Remember: the Chinese Fed chose to go to Worlds without them. So they obviously think that they can do without them. And he could do worse than having Peng as a partner.

 

[gabriele]

Come on people, it's a new millenium. Time to throw away ideas about the world which were not even accurate back decades ago. These days many people are emigrating from perceived safe and prosperous haven to greener pastures.

On what grounds does Yu have to seek asylum? Something frivolous like not being able to skate with her preferred partner? Refugees in dire straights are turned away, immediately or after being confined, sometimes after long years of fighting to stay for their lives.

Even in the old days, defections were not necessarily what the Western press made it out to be for political reasons. I was personally told by one of the most famous defectors of the time that he left China purely to pursue artistic freedom and opportunities and he did not have any bad blood with the Chinese authorities, contrary to the propaganda. This world famous and acclaimed musician has since returned to live, perform, teach, and contribute to music in China. Yu has neither the high status nor political climate of those days to take advantage of.

Lubov two years ago comes to mind.... She was stuck in Russia without a chance to continue her skating career. Do you think Yu would be better off?

 

[Violet Bliss]

Lubov two years ago comes to mind.... She was stuck in Russia without a chance to continue her skating career. Do you think Yu would be better off?

Vanessa Crone of Canada has disappeared from figure skating since being dumped by Paul Poirier. I can't say anything about Yu's probable future since I don't know what's happening with her now.

I'm only certain that things are more complicated than we know such that the Chinese fed may be trying something very out of line with their tradition as well as seeming logic and practical consideration.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Lubov two years ago comes to mind.... She was stuck in Russia without a chance to continue her skating career. Do you think Yu would be better off?

For me, a better comparison would come from France. Like, how many skaters have there been in recent years that the FFSG refused to release?!

Tiffany Zahorski and Bruno Massot come immediately to mind as they are the most high profile. But I am nearly sure there were others.

Admittedly, Tiff and Bruno were eventually released, to huge publicity. But this was only because Didier Gailhaguet was now running for the ISU Presidency, and wanted to do something that would show him in a good light, and distract from his involvement in the 2002 scandal.

Sorry for being so cynical.

Anyway, although the FFSG does not have control over all aspects of their skaters lives like the CSA seems to, it is probably the best comparison for refusing to let their skaters take up opportunities of representing other countries.

CaroLiza_fan