Yu/Jin & Peng/Zhang switch partners

[Giselle]

Since the Chinese Fed says pairing up Yu and Zhang is for next year's Worlds (top 6, kidding me?) and we all know China only has two spots, do you see what they mean (let's assume Sui/Han make a timely recovery)? Peng and Jin, Wang and Wang are not going to Worlds next year and it's so decided BEFORE THE NEXT SEASON EVEN STARTS.

Good catch . They are not even trying to hide it lol.

If they are ready I hope Peng/Jin get 2 GPs as a split ranked couples who return with new partners (not having to rely on the COC host pick) and 4CC. I suppose they'll get the David Wilson choreo and Yu/Zhang will get the Lori Nichols programs.

 

[karne]

If they are ready I hope Peng/Jin get 2 GPs as a split ranked couples who return with new partners (not having to rely on the COC host pick) and 4CC..

The Chinese Federation would have to put them in for that. What do you suppose the chances of that would be? :sarcasm: I would say, none and Buckley's.

 

[cathlen]

The worst news ever. Pairs is my favourite discipline & I've always liked Chinese pairs, but now I won't be able to watch them without feeling angry or dissapointed. I both hate it and am really sad

 

[annesigin]

Since the Chinese Fed says pairing up Yu and Zhang is for next year's Worlds (top 6, kidding me?) and we all know China only has two spots, do you see what they mean (let's assume Sui/Han make a timely recovery)? Peng and Jin, Wang and Wang are not going to Worlds next year and it's so decided BEFORE THE NEXT SEASON EVEN STARTS.

You got it, congratulations.

Yu/Jin had a better performance in 2015-2016 season than Peng/Zhang. They went into GPF and got the 5th. Peng/Zhang even didn't entry the GPF. Yu/Jin also did well in the 4CC. But Peng/Zhang beat Yu/Jin in the competition within team China. And Peng/Zhang replaced Yu/Jin to go to WC. Were all these things fair and clean?
Now the Fed predicts Yu/Zhang will go to next WC. I wonder if Zhang Hao (with his partners) must have the opportunity to attend WC, no matter what happens.

 

[invisiblespiral]

***?!??!??!?!?! :hopelessness:

*hides under a rock and dies*

 

[s_parks]

"Let's make skating in China as unpopular as possible!" - said someone brilliant in the Chinese fed.
Well, Sui is getting surgery after choreo/training with Lori, so there's no way they'll be at worlds, so I guess all four of them will be able to go.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

With all due respect, but whoever thinks Yu/Zhang can just follow the example of V/T or S/M needs to get a reality check. Starting with the fact that V/T and S/M wanted to skate together, they also had a year "off" where they had time to gel together before they could compete. Y/Z won't have that. And as good as Zhang may be, he's no male Tatiana or Aljona. And especially in the latter case, who she is and what she achieved in the sport so far is a huge reason while S/M could have the success they had this season. An unknown skater with the exact same performances would have never gotten the same PCS and GOE (rightful or not).

I just feel so sorry for Yu/Jin, they had so much potential and already achieved so much. Honestly, when I ever see Y/Z live, I don't even know if I could get myself to cheer and clap for them. It wouldn't be fair for the skaters, but I'm just so angry at this decision.

 

[Marin]

Apparently Chinese fed considers Hao their "Aliona" and want to preserve him by putting him together with a strong partner. That could make sense only if Zhang was a 5 time world champion, 9 times world medalist, and 2 time Olympic medalist though

 

[Li'Kitsu]

^ He also just doesn't rock a jumpsuit like Aljona does. No comparison.

Sorry, I needed to say something stupid to help myself from being depressed...

 

[Khoai]

This is idiotic on all levels.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Also, just a short note... Examples such as V/T and S/M are great and all, but the Chinese Fed forgot one teeny tiny detail - they actually WANTED to team up and work together

Gaaah!!!!!!!!

People, PLEASE stop referring to couples by their surname initials!!!

When S/M was brought into the conversation by Lota, I automatically thought it was Savchenko and Morozov that were being talked about!!! Especially when Volosozhar was also mentioned. Hence why I was talking about Aljona and Stanislav splitting, and Stanislav teaming up with Tatiana, while Aljona teamed up with Robin Szolkowy.

It was only when Li'Kitsu was talking about "the success they had this season" that I realised that it was actually Aljona's newest partnership with Bruno Massot that was being discussed!

With all due respect, but whoever thinks Yu/Zhang can just follow the example of V/T or S/M needs to get a reality check. Starting with the fact that V/T and S/M wanted to skate together, they also had a year "off" where they had time to gel together before they could compete. Y/Z won't have that. And as good as Zhang may be, he's no male Tatiana or Aljona. And especially in the latter case, who she is and what she achieved in the sport so far is a huge reason while S/M could have the success they had this season. An unknown skater with the exact same performances would have never gotten the same PCS and GOE (rightful or not).

At least when Kirsten-Moore Towers got a new partner with the same surname initial as her previous partner, the new partnership developed the initials "M-T/M2". Could the same not be done here, "S/M2"???!!!

Of course, I would prefer it if we used full surnames. The management of the forum tried to stamp out the use of surname initials last year, and encourage the use of full names. But it crept back in again very quickly.

It is not easy reading posts when you have to pause to decipher who is being talked about!

Sorry for the off-topic rant.

Time to get back to the on-topic ranting.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[Sophie-Anna]

Basically, Y/J and P/Z split because the Chinese Fed considers the "German and Russian" model of S/M and V/T a success and wants to try it. They are hoping for a top six finish. Best part is that the fed spokesperson admits that both pairs didn't like the idea, but "decided to go with it in hopes of better results".

I'll be honest, I understand the Chinese Fed's mindset. Peng can't jump, and Jin doesn't have the technical such as the quad twist to compete with top teams. Most likely what is going to happen is that Y/Z will land the jumps and go for quads, while P/J will most likely be left in the dust. However, splitting at this time when next season is an important determinant of the Olympics doesn't really make sense. Both pairs are now going to have to start from the beginning in terms of PCS and GOE and are going to have to climb their way back up. Quite frankly, to even think of achieving a top six finish at next year's Worlds is quite ridiculous. I would assume that had Y/J attended Worlds, China might still have three spots and the Chinese pair program wouldn't have to go through all this mess.

On a positive (and unrelated) note: S/H are done with next season's programs and will undergo surgery this week. Hope everything goes well!

How can they compare the situation of S/M and V/T with this? Savchenko and Massot started skating together because Robin Szolkowy decided to end his career as a skater and Aliona wanted to continue. And yes, Bruno Massot left Daria Popova but as far as I know Bruno himself wanted and wants to skate with Aliona. It wasn't like he wouldn't agree with skating with Aliona. But in case of Chinese skaters, it seems that Xiaoyu Yu DID NOT wanted to switch a partner. In the case of V/T, I think this is similar to S/M. Yes, Trankov wanted to skate with Tatiana for some time before they actually started skating together. But it wasn't before Stanislav Morozov ended his skating career, that they(V/T) became a pair (now I mean ON the ice). Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Aliona and Bruno agree to skate together as weel as Tatiana and Max do. But at least one skater in China, Xiaoyu Yu clearly didn't (doesn't) agree with this switch.
And I think it won't be so perfect, I mean the connection between them on the ice. Yes they can say to Yu: you will smile during a program, you will do this and this. But that won't be natural.This is a pair skating, they should skate together, communicate together, have some connection. Shen and Zhao seemed natural to me, during their performances, Yu/Jin skated together for some time and I think they had future, Sui/Han have been together for many years, and I see the connection. About P/Z? To be honest I don't think Hao Zhang is such a great partner in terms of connection, interpretation etc. And this change, as somebody already wrote here, seems to be because of Hao Zhang. For what? Ego, longevity, why? And does he really want to skate with someone who doesn't want to skate with him? What also surprised me was that this switch happened just a few weeks after I read an interview (I think icenetwork?) with Peng/Zhang about how they're working, about plans...and then this.

I must say I'm really disappointed with Chinese figure skating federation.

Note: sorry if the text is with mistakes or doesn't make sense in some parts, I'm pretty angry with this and I had to write my opinion.

I have to say I'm really disappointed

 

[shyne]

Maybe there is a chance for US to get 3 spots for pairs!
Very disappointed to see Yu/Jin forced to split like this. They were a very lovely pair to watch.

 

[annesigin]

The first whistle-blower who announced the split on Baidu Tieba in early April reappeared earlier. He (or she) said the split decision was made BEFORE this year's worlds. He (or she) attributed the decision to Zhang. I don't want to be lectured by other posters on this topic again. I just relay the information and you're free to decide for yourself.

I have seen that too. Translate what he or she said witin 【】:

whistle-blower: 【Zhang Hao was unsatisfied with his partner and it has been planned for a long time to choose another partner for him. Teams of provinces tested several girls, not only Yu Xiaoyu. It has been decided before the 2016 WC to switch Yu and Peng. This decision cannot be changed since it was made. The arrangement was made mainly by the pairs coach group. The Fed leaders did not approve of the proposal at first. But pairs coach group insisted and the leaders agreed finally.】

A: Was the decision mainly made by coach Yao Bin and Zhao Hongbo?
whistle-blower: 【Coach Yao Bin seldom manages things now.】

B: So the tryout for WC within team China was obviously disgusting. The judges couldn't be fair.
whisle-blower: 【The tryout didn't relate to the switch directly. But maybe the resluts of the tryout reminded them of unexpected possibilities.】
B: If the so-called tryout selected Yu/Jin for WC, Yu/Jin might attract more attention from fans abroad. Once they got a good grade, how would the switch have proceeded?!
whistle-blower: 【A decision was a decision, which was not related to the attention. The most important were the grades. They daren't wager on the spots of next season and did take these kinds of things seriously.】
C: 0.06 points was such a subtle diffrence. Theoretically speaking, Yu/Jin did better than Wang/Wang in the past so it would not have been difficult to choose Yu/Jin instead of Wang/Wang. How could they choose Wang/Wang and Peng/Zhang since they considered the grades first? They did know Peng/Zhang had practiced for only three weeks!
whistle-blower:【They had no preference between Wang/Wang and Yu/Jin. Neither Wang/Wang nor Yu/Jin must attend WC. Neither the two was obliged to quit WC also. Both of the two pairs didn't get the definite support from the coach. The intention of the tryout was to choose the best pairs for WC including Yu/Jin. Yu/Jin were of course expected to perform at a level matching up to the WC either. 】

D: So this was what Zhao Hongbo did!
whistle-blower:【 Peng Cheng was chosen by coach Yao Bin by himself. Yu Xiaoyu wasn't.】

Warnings: These above are just whispers. I just translate and cannot guarantee the credibility of the information. Just as a reference.
(I hope my poor English can be understood.)

 

[yyyskate]

...... Skaters are pawns and Skating fans are even less than dirt to Chinese Skating Fed.
......

 

[apple123]

So Bin Yao or the federation has nothing much to do with the switch. It's Hongbo Zhao's and Hao Zhang's decision? Oh my god!

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

So Bin Yao or the federation has nothing much to do with the switch. It's Hongbo Zhao's and Hao Zhang's decision? Oh my god!

I'm shocked! Zhao Hongbo was the one person that I thought wouldn't be involved in this meddling.

As I wrote earlier in the thread:

What I want to know is: how far up the chain this order is coming from? It has to be some pen pushers who are looking at the results and are not actively involved with the skaters. I cannot imagine that it is Zhao Hongbo or Yao Bin that are behind it. Like, they are former Pairs skaters themselves. So, they should know that this type of meddling isn't good.

I am particularly interested to know what Zhao Hongbo thinks about this. It was only a few years ago that he was half of one of the top Pairs partnerships in the world. His competitive career is still recent enough for him to know what the current couples have to do to be successful. And that chopping and changing partnerships is not the way to achieve that.

Like, how would Hongbo have reacted if the Federation had decided to split him and Shen Xue up?

Or, what if they had gone further and ordered them to swap partners with Pang Qing and Tong Jian? Given that both these partnerships ended up as couples off the ice, their whole lives could have been vastly different.

Yet, from the sounds of things, it was him that was behind this switcheroo!!!

I had great memories of him and Shen. And because of that, I liked that he was coaching the next generation of Chinese Pairs skaters. But this debacle has really tarnished my respect for him.

Very disappointed. :disapp:

CaroLiza_fan

 

[silverlake22]

Peng's jumps are fine in practice so hopefully without the huge pressure that she had when she was skating with Zhang, she can gain her confidence back and land them in competitions. That's about the only positive thing I get from that mess. Does Yu even have 3S? Yu/Jin did 2A2A sequence.

I don't know if Yu does 3s but her 3t is pretty strong and consistent, even this season when she was struggling with her SBS jumps a bit more than usual she'd usually land the 3t even if she had to put her hand down, which is better than Peng or Wang who seem to always double or fall on SBS jumps. I don't think doing 2a-2a sequence hurts you that much point wise if you can consistently land both SBS jumping passes, which Yu usually can and Peng cannot, so, overall I would still say Yu is a better jumper than Peng.

 

[Alchamei]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

F... YOU CHINESE FED.

Sorry for my overemotional reaction, but I'm so done.

 

[Giselle]

In the case of V/T, I think this is similar to S/M. Yes, Trankov wanted to skate with Tatiana for some time before they actually started skating together. But it wasn't before Stanislav Morozov ended his skating career, that they(V/T) became a pair (now I mean ON the ice).
I must say I'm really disappointed with Chinese figure skating federation.

From what I remember from the Volosozhar/Trankov timeline and according to this article:

Volosozhar/Morozov finished a surprise 4th at 2007 Worlds, then dropped to 9th at 2008 Worlds and 6th at 2009 Worlds (and 4th at Europeans 2 times in a row). Stanislav Morozov then realized that 4th at Worlds was probably going to be the best result they'll get and Tatiana is way younger than him and could go another quad. He kept skating until the 2010 Olympics and Volosozhar/Morozov skipped the 2010 Worlds so Tatiana could skate with her new partner for another country at 2011 Worlds.

Max was done with the Mukhortova/Vasiliev situation and thought that a couple of 4th and 5th at big competitions wasn't worth it. Volosozhar/Morozov approached him as a potential partner for Tatiana and he agreed. He went to 2010 Worlds and had a couple of shows commitments with Maria Mukhortova then he went on to skate with Tatiana.

Let's also remember that 2011 Worlds was postponed from the end of March to the end of April because of the Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami and instead of Japan, it took place in Russia. That extra month could've been key for a new team such as Volosozhar/Trankov (plus home ice adantage).