It's interesting that Dylan Moscovitch is only 2 months younger than Zhang, yet many on these forums consider Zhang much more "over the hill" than Dylan. I had to look up the ages, because I feel that way too.
Yu/Jin & Peng/Zhang switch partners
- Thread starter yqs100
- Start date
It's interesting that Dylan Moscovitch is only 2 months younger than Zhang, yet many on these forums consider Zhang much more "over the hill" than Dylan. I had to look up the ages, because I feel that way too.
Could it be because Dylan did not have any injuries in the last few years, whereas if I recall correctly, Zhan has been injured in the past few years?
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2014
Sad sad news.
Shame on the decision makers.
Shame on the decision makers.
Maybe because both Peng and Yu are younger than Ilyushechkina. And they two girls look younger than their real age, especially Peng. Compared with them, Zhang Hao look as old as their uncle...No offence.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
Like many other Chinese athletes, Hao Zhang's age has been often disputed. Rumor has it that he is older, and Dan Zhang is actually younger, so it was argued that that their ages were manipulated to meet the ISU requirements. CSA refuted the arguments blaming poor record keeping, but there were similar age controversies with Sui/Han and Yu/Jin.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2006
Maybe people don't mention Dylan as much since he hasn't been a "major player" on the world stage as long as Hao. Dylan didn't even qualify for the 2006 Olympics, where Hao won the silver medal. His successful period was really from 2011 on, while Hao's has been ongoing since about 2002.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2014
You beat me to it, I was just about to post the exact same thing re: Dylan and his career in comparison to Hao's.
Indeed, Dylan only began to be a player on the world stage until after he teamed up with Kirsten in 2009. Prior to this partnership, he competed with his sister Kyra, and their highest placement at nationals was 4th. He also skated singles at this point in his career; I don't know of his exact placements at nationals, but I know he wasn't on the podium. He definitely wasn't well-known outside of Canada, let alone a major player in pairs. Sort of similar to Eric Radford, who is 31 this year and only really found success after pairing up with Meagan in 2010.
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
Thought this would be the best place to share this. I made a tribute to Yu/Jin: http://youtu.be/ZWeSnUqvUNc
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2016
We'll see what happens... It's a big mistake in my opinion.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2014
Thank you for making this!
Also I remembered that their last exhibition number was "See You Again" which makes me even more sad :sad21:
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2014
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
Thank you NanaPat for bringing Dylan into the conversation, because it has raised some interesting points.
The confusion over Zhang Hao's age has already been discussed (see this post). But, say if he is actually 31, then it is interesting that we view him so differently to Dylan.
I agree with blue_idealist that it is probably down to how long they have each been a "major player". Although they have both had long careers, Dylan only really came onto most people's radars in the last Olympic cycle. So, we think of him as being younger.
Plus it doesn't help that Hao looks a lot older than Dylan. Interestingly, that was always the case. If you look up old videos of Zhang Dan / Zhang Hao (eg. 2006 Olympics) and Kyra Moscovitch / Dylan Moscovitch (eg. 2008 Nationals SP), you will find that both Hao and Dylan look exactly the same as they do now! They both aged early, and then stopped aging any further!
But, I don't subscribe to the theory that the age difference with the partners plays a part.
Yes, Peng and Yu do look younger than the age on their Bios. But, so does Lubov. I couldn't believe it that she was older than Kirsten. Like, I would still have Lubov in her late teens, not her mid-twenties!
But, I'm really bad at judging ages!
With both Peng / Zhang and Iliushekina / Moscovitch, it looks like a grown man skating with a little girl. And it did look odd when both couples first teamed up. Admittedly, less so with the Canadians, as Lubov does look older than Cheng (because she is!) But, Cheng has matured a lot physically since she teamed up with Hao, and they do not look as odd together now as they did even 2 years ago.
And I know aesthetics shouldn't come into it, but this could be one of the reasons why this switch is happening. Let's face it, although their Bios say that Yu is only a year older than Peng, it looks more. Consequently, having an older looking young girl skating with the grown man would look even less odd.
Of course, it is well known that there have been lots of age disputes over Chinese athletes in lots of sports. And the one over the Zhangs is probably the best known in figure skating. But I hadn't realised that there were doubts over the other couples. And hearing this started me thinking.
What about Cheng Peng? Is there any doubt about her age?
If she is actually younger than her Bio says, that would pretty much confirm my theory that Cheng Peng's problems this season have been down to puberty. Not late-onset puberty like I thought, but normal puberty.
(See my first post in this thread for links to my previous posts on the subject).
And if puberty is the reason Peng Cheng is having problems, it seems highly unfair that she is being ditched because of it. Because she will get through it.
I wonder if this switch is because Zhao Hongbo knows Peng Cheng is having issues due to puberty, and he is panicking over whether she will be through it in time for Pyeongchang. Because, he wants his mate Zhang Hao to be challenging as high up as possible at the Olympics.
Just a thought.
So, bringing Dylan and Lubov into the conversation as a comparison has proved very useful.
Thank you.
CaroLiza_fan
Last edited:
I agree that Zhang didn't appear any younger in the video, but Dylan did look younger to me. Interestingly, if you go to the end of that Kyra/Dylan video, you'll hear the commentator saying that they can't go to worlds because of Kyra's age. The arena announcer actually said (correctly) it was due to BOTH their ages; he was too old for juniors, she too young for seniors. I was there and I remember it!
Your musings about possible age mis-reporting among the Chinese women has made me wonder about Dan Zhang's "very late" growth spurt. Maybe she was actually younger than reported? Oh what a tangled web we weave.....
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2010
In all likelihood 队员 (team member(s)) refers to the skaters. If they have used 选手 or 运动员 (athletes) like elsewhere in the article, it would definitely mean the skaters only. I find this sentence and the reference to the team member(s) rather odd because even though there are no singular or plural nouns there are usually articles before them, such as the equivalences of a, some, most, all, each, etc, and the word 们 after 队员 would have definitely made it plural. So the sentence and the reference to the team member(s) are somewhat odd and ambiguous whether it is done on purpose or not.
I try to understand which of the coaches could have made such a decision based simply on the theory and hope of pairing up two strongest athletes to make the strongest team. Yao and Zhao both understand extremely well the importance of a (very) long term partnership, as does Zhang who still misses his connection with his old partner. When he talked about his injury that required a three week rest last year, he mentioned that with a well connected long time partner (Zhang Dan) they could pick it up easily after a month or more of not training together but a three week break from training with Peng was a big setback. Are they simply giving up on P/Z being able to form a tight partnership? Could any of them really believe a new union with a supposedly stronger partner would bring a quick success?
By tradition of the very successful Chinese Pairs program, choice of a partner is largely the responsibility of the coach but a Pair is usually formed when both partners are very young and they don't split unless one of them quits one way or another, e.g. what happened with Zhao and Tong who both lost their early partners and they both went through very disappointing experiences initially with their ultimate partners, yet they persevered in their partnerships. Zhang Hao losing his partner of 14 years was a really unusual and difficult case. Maybe all involved are disappointed in the inadequate connection between Peng and Zhang and decided to make drastic change since their paring was already unconventional.
It must be discouraging and embarrassing for Peng and Jin to be clearly considered the weaker ones. I hope it motivates them to prove the shot callers wrong. OTOH, it must be an extreme pressure on Yu and Zhang to have to gel ultra quickly and to make top 6 at next Worlds per expectation. It is almost mission impossible.
Going back to the Chinese report re the regrouping, 期待 is also a stronger verb phrase than 希望 (hope), it is more like an anticipation, an expectation. So per Mr. Ren, no matter the unacceptance by the skaters, he looks forward to Y/Z new partnership gelling quickly and a top six Worlds finish in less than a year.
I'm still puzzled at the decision, which seems to be made by someone without understanding of Pairs skating at all as well as the history of the extremely successful Chinese Pairs.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2014
It seems that everybody here is changing into the "Detective Conan",
but I do think CaroLiza_fan is really strong in both logical thinking and analytic reasoning on many obscure cases. :thumbsup: I mean it.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
It seems that everybody here is changing into the "Detective Conan",
Awww!!! Thank you so much for the kind words!!!
I'm all embarassed now!
:I do try my best to look at things logically rather than let my emotions take over. But, it has been very hard to do with this whole situation!
CaroLiza_fan
I was really alarmed when all those age controversies from Chinese skaters came up a couple of years ago. Both ladies are very likely younger and both men are very likely older. Yu/Jin were very successful in juniors, but it's possible that they wouldn't have been allowed to compete in juniors in the last seasons because of his age (5 years!). It seems like a smart idea to partner an older, stronger and more experienced skater with a young talented girl, because she's light and will learn a lot. But it's also an unfair advantage and those girl lose their childhood completely. That's why there are age limits etc.. I don't like it!
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2012
My question is really how much better is Yu than Peng. The switch does not make any sense. I said earlier that Zhang could find a retired female single skater, and yesterday, stumbled into Kexin Zhang (a former single skater) performing in Taiwan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeeQ6vmwRC8, as a figure skating coach. I know it is a long shot. I think she could be a decent pair skater, especially her performance seems to have improved, and she should not have problems with solo triple jumps.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2012
So that is what Kexin is doing now! I was thinking about her a few months ago when Chinese Nationals were on, wondering where she had gone, and if she was still competing.
Hang on. The graphic says that these are the "Chinese Taipei National Team Selection Championships". So, has she switched countries?! If she has, that would explain her absence on the international scene since Sochi.
And it would also be very surprising, given what we have been discussing in this thread in relation to Yu's options if she had stuck to her guns. People were saying that the CSA would not release skaters to compete for other countries. Yet this seems to be what has happened with Zhang Kexin, who was Chinese Ladies Champion only 3 years ago.
And Kexin's case is especially surprising since she now appears to be skating for what the Chinese government considers to be the "renegade province"!
This video has me totally intrigued.
Thank you for posting it, hippomoomin!!!
CaroLiza_fan
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
***?!??!??!?!?!:hopelessness:
*hides under a rock and dies*
exactly my feelings about this going official...Yu/Jin along with Seguin/Bilodeau were my biggest new hopes/interests in pairs and now I want to punch something or more someone who came up with this 'brilliant' solution...
Similar threads
