I hope Vivian Le skates as a Senior at Nationals next year she has the talent to be top 5 and we need to encourage young talent. Most of the top US Ladies are 20 or older and it's time to look past 2018. I would love if someone like Le makes the Olympic team for 2018 though i think she has more potential then Polina.
State of U.S. Ladies' skating 2016-17
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
1. Money
2. Time spent with them teaching them how to compete. Not skate, but compete.
3. More opportunities to compete.
4. Competitions that they actually want to take part it.
5. Talk to the parents and listen to their questions/comments/concerns
6. Mentoring type programs. Senior skaters should spend time with younger - we should have a fun but cheap, prestigious, but easy on the skaters, program to let them interact. A lot of young skaters could likely learn a lot just by spending a week in Colorado sharing the ice with "names". I actually think a summer team event that has a teams made of one each of Juvenile, Intermediate, Novice, Junior and Senior could be a lot of fun and a lot of use. I suspect a lot of skaters would sequel with joy at getting to be on a team at a competition with some of our seniors.
7. Alternate comps that reward segments of skating. Give young skaters the chance to feel proud of having the best spins, or the best jumps, or the best footwork, etc. Allow those that excel in one area to excel and enjoy it. Give skaters more reasons to stick with it even in a small capacity. This could keep some late bloomers in the sport long enough to really thrive later in their careers.
8. Offer college scholarships. This could make continuing to skater more practical for some skaters.
9. Brow beat schools into letting kids use skating to offset some classes. Even just being able to skip PE to go do real physical education, could really make life easier on some skaters/families.
10. Have tutoring resources available to help students and their families learn how to better balance school and skating. Really having one certified teacher on full time pay to be accessible to all skaters to help them get caught up and do well could do a lot to help skaters.
11. Learning to travel. Traveling sucks. Yes it can be a lot of fun, but it still sucks. You have to learn how to travel in order to learn how to compete out of area. We need to give kids at a young age to figure out what works for them for traveling.
12. Junior level social media/"The Internet": The Junior Grand Prix should be "a thing" really it is awesome and could be promoted more. I think it might be worth trying to get Disney channel or Nickelodeon to cover it in some capacity. We need to start saying "hey this is happening and it is awesome and the skaters that do it rock and should be proud" we need to start establishing that a JGP assignment is an wonderful thing that everyone should be happy about. We need to bring some prestige to it. We need to sell schools that they should feel proud and thrilled to have students that get JGP assignments... they should be something that are coveted.
13. Tickets to unsoldout events. Frankly any skater that makes it to nationals should get at least two free good tickets to Skate America each year it is not sold out. Frankly I think they should be looking into papering anyway. Papering in the theater world is when you try to give away tickets to anyone as they are not worth the paper they are printed on... once an event is not sold out, you should start trying for butts in seats... offer free tickets at the last minute to local police departments, fire departments, hospital workers, nursing homes, military bases and volunteer organizations... ie. good causes that many people will not care if they get a free ticket - you probably could at local veterinaries to the list without much issue... i suspect others would have good ideas too. The idea is to get butts in seats for a better audience for the show. At the last minute you call up and say "you all are good people want some free tickets?" Then you have a full house filled with good people. I think they should at the last minute offer free nose bleeds to local skaters and their families. Give them a chance to see high level skating. Pretty sure the Shibs said they started Ice Dancing after seeing it.
14. Explore ways to get young skaters set up as their own businesses so that they can possible get some tax advantages to their expenses... frankly id have no problem with young skaters even qualifying as non-profits... but that could take some lobbying... maybe add lobbying to the list.
15. Access to medical care. Make it easy for skaters to get great treatment but also keep an eye on them staying healthy. USFSA should have a "we take care of our own" attitude and should have resources to help youngsters figure out how to safely train off ice, how to get test that are needed, how to be listened to, how to get the best care. But also have access to nutritionists. Having a nutritionist on the payroll that just helps the Juvenal - Novice skaters eat and live better could be a worthwhile investment. Give the skaters access to the tools they need.
.... ok this was me (who really does not know anything) throwing mud a the wall... I am sure others can think of other ideas. Point is... yes there are things that could be done.
edit: medical care... not medal care... medals are not THAT important.
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- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
Exposure and Funding.......That's as small as I can break it down. Of course, there are so many other things that must be done to get these young skaters into a position where their talents can be seen. I think StitchMonkey's list hits on some key points.
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- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
I think part of the problem is the lack of quality competitions via some sort of circuit for our young skaters. I often wonder though if maybe it's an effect of so many American fans tending to resist giving full support to younger skaters. It seems to me that many of the American fans and parents of skaters I run into really seem to focus on only what they say are "mature" and older skaters. There seems to be a fair amount of resistance to younger talents in some instances. Just a thought.
I liked the Freezer Challenge. Give me more of that :yes:
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- Joined
- Jul 31, 2014
I think part of the problem with this is that in the USA it is seen as acceptable to skate recreationally, or primarily for an athletic burn some calories outlet. So we have this strange balancing act between letting skaters skate just for fun, and priming them for a later career. The USA kinda has a bit of a "you are probably not going to make it to the Olympics" mindset... in part cuz we are so huge that you usually have to be pretty damn good to make it to the Olympics. Having the Olympics as the only end goal is just not practical in the USA as too many will get their heart broken. We need to have more Carly Golds who don't expect to make the Olympics, but can set realistic goals for themselves and be happy with them.
We don't give young skaters support in part due to trying to keep expectations realistic. Telling a kid that the Olympics is an option only works until reality sets in and reality is that Olympics are only realistic for a very few... if that is all that will make you a succession your own eye... you're gonna have a bad time. And sadly it seem the USA is incapable of talking about a new young skater without talking about the Olympics... but that is likely true of a lot of areas.
We just don't know how to tell the difference between the Gracie Golds and the Carly Golds and frankly we need both. We don't want to tell a Carly she is a Gracie, and we don't want to tell a Gracie she is a Carly.... but we don't know how to tell the difference when the skaters are 8 years old.
Should we burn out the Carlys trying to give them perfect technique even if it is unlikely they will ever compete internationally? Or do we let the Carlys focus on making it to nationals? And when does a Carly become a Gracie? When do we make the switch.... which in and of itself is painful. Do we destroy the joy for the Carlys to help the Gracies.... I don't think so.
I think alot of parents want their kids to set Carly Gold goals not Gracie Gold goals... when they achieve their Carly goals, they can set new Gracie goals. But that may not be practical long term.
... also I agree Freezer was awesome and we need more of that.
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2014
Your assessment is spot on.
And for everyone who says "more funding!" -- where exactly is that funding supposed to come from? lol... we've got half empty seats at Nationals and Skate America, people!
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2013
I think this already is the mentality within US Figure skating honestly and I also think it's the reason the sport won't continue to grow in the US. Until Internet access to the events are free and some sort of push to make it relevant again takes place then we will be a sport full of people who are or were a part it directly. The marketing of the sport in America is just not aimed at attracting new fans.
What we probably need is an extrusion army wealthy person to have a kid become super star good or see how wide open the market actual is. Until then...
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In terms of developing young talent, I am from the old school that would like to see young skaters develop deep, steady edges, beautiful positions and spins and spirals that accent strength and beauty. I would like to see amazing single jumps which become doubles and then triples. But triples don't come until there are excellent, continuous doubles. I would like young skaters to be exposed to a variety of beautiful music and learn to hear the music and skate to it, not with it. I would like to see parents and skaters be in the sport for the long haul and not expect immediate results. The reward is that the skater will have a life long hobby/sport to enjoy...and the skater will be able to walk when he/she is 30 without bone replacements and complex surgeries. And maybe the skater will be lucky enough to succeed competitively.
In terms of US ladies, I see Gracie and Ashley continue their up and down progress. I do think Gracie will make the podium at or before the Olympics. I am most interested in seeing if Mirai still has some "gas in the tank" and keep that jump technique progress going and have 2 really good programs for next year.
In terms of US ladies, I see Gracie and Ashley continue their up and down progress. I do think Gracie will make the podium at or before the Olympics. I am most interested in seeing if Mirai still has some "gas in the tank" and keep that jump technique progress going and have 2 really good programs for next year.
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2012
Empty seating in arenas is, IMO, directly related to the exhorbitant prices being charged. And back to the old gripe that there isn't enough TV exposure to get young girls and boys interested in figure skating. I wish the pro competitions would come back and we could see people like Jeff Buttle, etc. competing again. I really think the USFSA does a very poor job of promiting figure skating...hence, little or no funding available, fewer skaters (don't know this for a fact though) and just overall less interest.
What is needed to develop skaters? I think it all boils down to good coaching, money, and time.
As a skating parent, I think the biggest hurdle is finding good coaching for your child at a young age. The current system is designed to protect the coaches since the goal is to maintain "professionalism" but that comes at the expense of developing a young child. Most skating parents are non-skaters themselves and have no idea what to look for in a coach. Without any feedback, the family flounders until they eventually (if ever) find a good one. Some coaches are good with young kids, some are good at teaching jumping, other are good at perfecting spins, others specialisze in MIF, and others are understand all the rules. Very few coaches know how to coherently put together all the pieces and also develop a skater at the same time. And remember, the rules change each year so that coach has to stay on top of things or their student will pay the price. There is also the issue even if you find this great coach, your child and the coach may have communications issues. If that happens, you are back to looking.
Someone said more competitions. For the developing skaters, there are "club" competitions and if a parent wanted, their child could compete in one of these every weekend from now until when Regionals start. But then you would have the expense of travel expenses to/from and during the competition let alone lost training time. So the real limiting factors here are time and money.
Injuries - again a good coach knows how to minimize injuries. And if a child has one, they can point the family in the right direction of proper treatment. But proper treatment takes time and money since it will not be convenient.
Getting school to allows ice skating to substitute for PE. I know that my school system does allow it provided that certain criteria are met so I assume that most other system have similar criteria in place. Even if a child meet that criteria, the parent still has to apply of for a waiver by a certain deadline established by the school. Awhile back I contacted the school asking about the criteria and after speaking to about 10 people, I finally located the person who actually provided me all the information. So the program is in place but the parent has to have the time to figure it out.
With those 3 ingredients, plus some talent, lots of hard work, and a bit of luck, you will have a champion.
As a skating parent, I think the biggest hurdle is finding good coaching for your child at a young age. The current system is designed to protect the coaches since the goal is to maintain "professionalism" but that comes at the expense of developing a young child. Most skating parents are non-skaters themselves and have no idea what to look for in a coach. Without any feedback, the family flounders until they eventually (if ever) find a good one. Some coaches are good with young kids, some are good at teaching jumping, other are good at perfecting spins, others specialisze in MIF, and others are understand all the rules. Very few coaches know how to coherently put together all the pieces and also develop a skater at the same time. And remember, the rules change each year so that coach has to stay on top of things or their student will pay the price. There is also the issue even if you find this great coach, your child and the coach may have communications issues. If that happens, you are back to looking.
Someone said more competitions. For the developing skaters, there are "club" competitions and if a parent wanted, their child could compete in one of these every weekend from now until when Regionals start. But then you would have the expense of travel expenses to/from and during the competition let alone lost training time. So the real limiting factors here are time and money.
Injuries - again a good coach knows how to minimize injuries. And if a child has one, they can point the family in the right direction of proper treatment. But proper treatment takes time and money since it will not be convenient.
Getting school to allows ice skating to substitute for PE. I know that my school system does allow it provided that certain criteria are met so I assume that most other system have similar criteria in place. Even if a child meet that criteria, the parent still has to apply of for a waiver by a certain deadline established by the school. Awhile back I contacted the school asking about the criteria and after speaking to about 10 people, I finally located the person who actually provided me all the information. So the program is in place but the parent has to have the time to figure it out.
With those 3 ingredients, plus some talent, lots of hard work, and a bit of luck, you will have a champion.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
I don't know if getting the senior skaters on Late Night TV would help but, in my case at least. It would have helped me. My Father was convinced that there was absolutely no way he'd get a return on his investment in my skating. That, coupled with the possibility of an injury that could derail my vocal auditions and my skating career was over. If you look at skaters like Armin M. Who was also a promising pianist, and Beatrisa Liang who went to the same to college I went to, Cal State Northridge and attended the H.S. where I taught dance, Granada Hills High.
It's actually a surprise that their parents let them continue their promising and successful skating careers. Imagine a freak accident when they get a serious hand injury or get your finger sliced off by a freshly sharpened blade. Just the thought of it would make some Parents weary of letting their child compete in this seemingly dangerous, yet oh so beautiful sport
It's actually a surprise that their parents let them continue their promising and successful skating careers. Imagine a freak accident when they get a serious hand injury or get your finger sliced off by a freshly sharpened blade. Just the thought of it would make some Parents weary of letting their child compete in this seemingly dangerous, yet oh so beautiful sport
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- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
Some good points.
I do think teaching them not to read GS might be a good thing too - we are more brutal than the real judges. Stay real. Try to get some kind of education. How to raise training money might be helpful too.
I wonder whether go to Morozov would be considered a good thing to encourage young talent or not?
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2012
I totally understand mrrice. But for me I was banned from all sports for fear that I would injure myself and couldn't sing on the weekends - that's how our school raised money - 5 of us sang. The thought process was that if I couldn't stand, walk and sing at the same time without falling or knocking myself unconscious (it happened twice in my first 13 performances) then one should not be playing sports.
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I totally understand mrrice. But for me I was banned from all sports for fear that I would injure myself and couldn't sing on the weekends - that's how our school raised money - 5 of us sang. The thought process was that if I couldn't stand, walk and sing at the same time without falling or knocking myself unconscious (it happened twice in my first 13 performances) then one should not be playing sports.:eeking:
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
Skater boy, I LOVE this story.......When I think of all the serious injuries that happened in my career, especially when I was touring with "Up With People." It would shock me if we didn't have more injuries than skating. I've seen dancers fall off stages more times than I can count. Singers fall off risers all the time. When I was doing the play "West Side Story" There was basically a new injury every night. The poor "Shark" dancers had to dance in high heeled character shoes during "America" and as a "Jet" The only Black Boy in the cast......We were all jumping off scaffolding or roof to roof between fake buildings.... When weren't duking it out in staged fake fights. 
Other than playing Richie Walters in A Chorus Line. Playing "Snow Boy" in West Side Story, was my all time favorite.
Other than playing Richie Walters in A Chorus Line. Playing "Snow Boy" in West Side Story, was my all time favorite.
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These are some grand ideas, #1 question though - how do you intend to fund these grand ideas?
I don't know much about the Juniors but I remember when Polina was Junior Champion she didn't even get to go to Junior Worlds, and Vivian Le who was their top lady on the JGP didn't get to continue her momentum at Junior Worlds. They need to consistently get their young girls competing instead of just sending age eligible ladies who competed at Senior Nationals to Junior Worlds. Make it mandatory that they compete at Junior Nationals too in order to get assigned Junior Worlds. In Russia, the Junior ladies do both Senior and Junior Championships, they have to consistently prove that they're the top. In USA there's too much flip flopping around in the lower ranks.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2014
Speaking to potential donors is completely free. It's getting them to listen that needs to be looked into. I'm not a rich but, if I had been approached to help a skater I loved by sending them a $50 dollar donation, I most certainly would have sent a check to Maria Butyrskaya and I'd still send one to Joshua Farris. It doesn't sound like much but, we all know how quickly that money adds up and we all know the skaters could use it.
Also, those ideas are not soooooo expensive, actually.
People are overly hyping Vivian Le.... I would refrain from doing that to stop making her into Gracie Gold #2 who can't live up to the pressure....
Yes I know she's talented, but we will have to wait... So far, she hasn't shown much consistency, especially with the edge jumps, so I'm far from putting all my eggs on her
Yes I know she's talented, but we will have to wait... So far, she hasn't shown much consistency, especially with the edge jumps, so I'm far from putting all my eggs on her
