2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating | Page 12 | Golden Skate

2016-17 State of Russian Ladies skating

Pippuripihvi said:
With 80% of population being baptized and observing all the religious holidays you would hardly find anyone who goes to church more or less regularly or even knows a prayer.
Click to expand...
Did you just write, it would be hard to find anyone in Russia knowing the Lord's Prayer? :roll9:
 
Pippuripihvi said:
Once again, no, it's not. I'm telling this as someone who shares the same cultural identity as Yulia and who was brought under the same cultural and national traditions. Saying Jesus has Risen or posting a picture with a cross online doesn't have the same significance in Russian culture as it does in other cultures, even Eastern European ones. During Easter time and Christmas my newsfeed on social media is filled with these kind of pictures. I realize it is different in other Eastern European countries (especially Poland and Serbia), but in Russia even those who are not religious at all would post them on holidays. Yes, crosses, doves and church pictures included.

I am not debating Yulia's faith or anything, just asking you not to draw conclusions based on these images. People tend to assign meanings to signs based on their cultural heritage and knowledge, and in some cases, they lack context and insights to do so. In Russia a lot of religious traditions and customs became indeed a part of the national identity and customs. So even non-religious people would observe them (me included). In some sense being Russian equals being Orthodox. With 80% of population being baptized and observing all the religious holidays you would hardly find anyone who goes to church more or less regularly or even knows a prayer. I know it sounds crazy, but that's what it is. And as Alexz pointed out, "I'm Orthodox, but I'm not religious" phrase is really very common.
Click to expand...

Of course I don't know if Yulia is really religious or not. Maybe even Yulia doesn't know that either. Maybe she just feels the cultural bond and doesn't go deeper than that. Or maybe she feels some kind of a spirit. Or maybe she feels THE Spirit. Or maybe a bit of everything.
Except some very few, a vast majority of people are confused about religion. Even those who openly admit to be religious. I tell this: faith is weak by nature. By its own essence. In everybody. Without exception. Even in Pope's. If it were strong we would walk on water. Which we obviously don't..... :)
 
Last edited:
boskil said:
Did you just write, it would be hard to find anyone in Russia knowing the Lord's Prayer? :roll9:
Click to expand...

Surely some people do! i surely overexagerated a lot. But you would expect this numbers to be a way higher based on the fact that most people are baptized. and it's not as common as in USA or Canada. :(
 
Last edited:
Manitou said:
That's exacty what we do too.. :)
https://www.google.com/search?q=pisanki&biw=1725&bih=845&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil1ICZueTMAhVJ3IMKHQPvBSUQ_AUIBigB
..
Click to expand...
plushyfan said:
That is not only Russian tradition. I'm Hungarian. In my country we paint beautiful eggs and in many other European countries, too. You can see traditional and modern Hungarian painted eggs:

https://www.google.hu/search?q=hagy...=qcA8V5n3H6uY6ATynoDQDA#imgrc=L_n68c03VQhMNM:
Click to expand...

Yeah, guys. It's a very Eastern European thing. Western Europe don't really do it any more. They are more about Easter Bunny only nowdays. However egg tapping was also a very British tradition not too long ago.
 
Alexz said:
Yeah, guys. It's a very Eastern European thing. Western Europe don't really do it any more. They are more about Easter Bunny only nowdays. However egg tapping was also a very British tradition not too long ago.
Click to expand...

Easter egg hunts are fairly popular in the States. Though it's more common for the eggs to be plastic and filled with candy or money.

**Mods, this is a really interesting discussion, but we are kind-of straying from the thread topic, could we move this to the Cafe?
 
Pippuripihvi said:
Once again, no, it's not. I'm telling this as someone who shares the same cultural identity as Yulia and who was brought under the same cultural and national traditions. Saying Jesus has Risen or posting a picture with a cross online doesn't have the same significance in Russian culture as it does in other cultures, even Eastern European ones. During Easter time and Christmas my newsfeed on social media is filled with these kind of pictures. I realize it is different in other Eastern European countries (especially Poland and Serbia), but in Russia even those who are not religious at all would post them on holidays. Yes, crosses, doves and church pictures included.

I am not debating Yulia's faith or anything, just asking you not to draw conclusions based on these images. People tend to assign meanings to signs based on their cultural heritage and knowledge, and in some cases, they lack context and insights to do so. In Russia a lot of religious traditions and customs became indeed a part of the national identity and customs. So even non-religious people would observe them (me included). In some sense being Russian equals being Orthodox. With 80% of population being baptized and observing all the religious holidays you would hardly find anyone who goes to church more or less regularly or even knows a prayer. I know it sounds crazy, but that's what it is. And as Alexz pointed out, "I'm Orthodox, but I'm not religious" phrase is really very common.
Click to expand...

I share pretty much the same impression of Russian religious heritage. It's more about their traditions than about personal faith issues.

I know for the fact that even Russian priests advising parents don't drag their kids to church forcefully. Going to church should be voluntary and in a good will. Their point of view on a religion is more about how important it is to be baptized (wear a cross on the neck, as some sort of good luck charm medalion or as a personal guardian angel) and to be a good kind person, than to blindly follow religious dogmas. An may be later, with age you know, if the person chooses to visit church more often, she/he can follow spiritual calling further.

They not always follow Bible literally down to the very T, like our devoted Christians in US, which taking it to extremes sometimes. In Russia personal and depth faith is a very personal business. You would never be for example stopped on the streets or in the mall and be preached on in Moscow, religious agitations in public places are also usually a big no-no (not that I find evangelism a bad thing in US). Russian civil society simply agreed on not making a big deal on religion choices of each other and compare degrees of spiritual devotion. It will be considered to be a very vulgar and immoral thing to judge someone of being a "bad Christian or too sinful" or try to convince someone to be more or less religious in modern Russia.

It's a very very personal mater in Russia, at least currently. Even people, who very vocal and upfront about being atheists, could be a very close with their devoted Christian friends which on contrary can happen to be extremely spiritual and righteous. Heck, they even can visit each other during religious holidays, share a meal, play along some fun national traditions, or just dine out all together with their families. Even Russian atheists can go to church on big religious holidays sometimes, they can just be a simple spectator and just enjoy the choir and ceremony. No need to pray or smth. Just behave as a cultural person, common sense you know. :)

And yep, in Russia it's considered to be completely fine to post religiously-themed celebratory pics on holidays even for nonbelievers. It's more like a holiday fancy postcards for them. However they still usually showing complete respect and acceptance of those how are very serious about faith (whatever denomination it can be).

Russia has a successful track record of peacefull coexistence of Islam, Christianity and Buhdism under one roof for many centuries. Certainly it was not very smooth back in 14th century or few small regions on a South. But regions like Tatarstan, Buryatiya, Bashkirstan, Kalmikiya has a very friendly and unique I would even say peaceful society of people of different religions or nonbelievers. Especially in Kazan (Tatarstan) Christian churches and Muslim moscas are located literally across the street from each other. So on big dates families of different religions can visit their own temples and shortly after services (be it muslim or christian) they can meet, congratulate each other, dine out or spent time together over a holiday meal at home. Even if you are agnostic or simply not spiritual/nonbeliever, you are always welcome to join and celebrate (or not) whatever you want on that day. Usual potluck courtesy rules and casual BYOB applies, Russians never show up empty handed, btw. They might a bit cold on outside first, especially in big metropolises like Moscow or St Petersburg, but if you are invited into their house, it's usually over-the-top hospitality, you better eat everything offered. ;) Some social lubricant in a form of wine will win you a friend for life. Big religious holidays are federal holidays anyways, no one is working, everything is closed, except essentials like gas stations, medicals and similar (only greedy grocery store owners are asking their employees to work disregarding.. [emoji38] ).

Certainly church officials as pretty much everywhere trying to have a bigger influence on society and intervene every now and than, but it's most of the time just the opinion of some priest or the patriarch and calling to the nation to be kind, to follow traditions, to be more tolerate and etc. Which is nice. However, some public statements or scandalous interviews by sometimes too religious individuals can happen, sometimes they may sound really like taking it too far. Civil society usually frowning upon those, they making fun on their account themselves.

Here in the States many subjects are taboo, like politics and religions, racial and ethnical tensions issues. No such thing in Russia as political correctness, they like to discuss pretty much anything. Even very heated debates about politics are common. Needless to say, virtually anything is up for a good laughing out. But it's the harassment and arguing over personal choices of faith/spirituality/lack_of_it they don't really like. Especially if it's in the form of agressive pressure not from within their own secular civil society. In short: they think everhitng works very well already, no need to change a thing.
 
Alexz said:
Well, what not to love about Russian churches? Tourists are always welcome, although wearing shoes is mandatory.
Click to expand...

"No shoes, no shirt, no Service." :yes:

They also will supply you with a long skirt and a headscarf to throw it on top of your head, you will give them those items back when leaving the church. Just symbolical requirements. Men on contrary have to take their hats off.
Click to expand...

The rationale for this custom is given in 1st Corinthians 11.

By the way, for linguistics freaks out there, the traditional Easter greeting in English is "Christ is risen," rather than "Christ has risen. (He is risen indeed.) This is because the phrase came through German (Christ ist auferstanden), which uses "ist" instead of "hat," auferstehen being a weak verb or something like that. :)
 
Mathman said:
"No shoes, no shirt, no Service." :yes:
Click to expand...
As an entity owner I would totally be requiring the same. :yes:

The rationale for this custom is given in 1st Corinthians 11.
Click to expand...

While it may sound nice and not discriminative, you know, "that is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels".. and all that jazz, I tend to have my own critical thinking on this one.

The first Epistle to the Corinthians was just a specific message (in a form of simple handwritten letter) send by Paul to Sosthenes and the church at Corinth. It's not necessary a obligatory message to all Christian genpop nowdays, like our devoted American Christians might read unto it and likes take it down the every T. :) It was a specific message to particular church (synagogue), probably in order to keep their faith and tradition strong, to make them more united around one psychological tradition what would keep them together and apart from nonbelievers around. One might argue that it's not a mandatory rule now for all modern believers. Like many other things in Bibble, which modern American evangelicals tend to take it to extremes sometimes.

Here is the difference with Russian version: they asking to do that out of the respect of their Christian tradition dating many centuries back, like 11-12th century or so. They gladly doing it themselves too. But some American Baptists are asking to do that in their church excatly because they blindly and dogmatically follow scriptures literally, which is not always the right and logical way. ;) Because some mortal human read that passages in chapter 11 and understood it his way, so now he demanding other to understand that the same way as he sees it. :)

I don't consider myself too religious or spiritual, but I strongly believe every educated person should know the Bible. It's ok do disagree with it at times too. I have many issues with this book too. But it's a good book, albeit it's been written by men (anointed), many years ago, in currently non-existing language, been reorganized by Synod, and perhaps retranslated many times over. Many things can be lost in translation. ;) So, imho, it's better to be a good kind person with open mind and common sense. If some tradition will require me to take a hat off or cover it with a headscarf, I would totally do it. Out of respect to their traditions. Not because of 1st Corinthians 11. ;)
Everyone will be judged by the one's heart and be weight on a very precise scale at the very end, and not by the blind dogma faith.
Here you have it - it's the Russkie way of approaching this subject. And I kinda agree with them on this one. ;)

By the way, for linguistics freaks out there, the traditional Easter greeting in English is "Christ is risen," rather than "Christ has risen. (He is risen indeed.) This is because the phrase came through German (Christ ist auferstanden), which uses "ist" instead of "hat," auferstehen being a weak verb or something like that.
Click to expand...

It's actually goes back to the times when German language was not even existing yet and German tribes were not even on the maps.. :)
(Like Armenian and some other languages)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_greeting


Ok, now it's totally offtop. sorry.
 
Alexz said:
While it may sound nice and not discriminative, you know, "that is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels".. and all that jazz, I tend to have my own critical thinking on this one.
Click to expand...

To me it is not nice at all. Men should take off their hats to show that God is above men, and women should cover their heads to show that men are above women. (At least, that's how my Sunday School teacher always explained it. I was confused about the reasoning even way back then. ;) )

It's actually goes back to the times when German language was not even existing yet and German tribes were not even on the maps. :) (Like Armenian and some other languages)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paschal_greeting
Click to expand...

:facepalm: How could I have forgotten

Քրիստոս յարեա՜ւ ի մեռելոց: Օրհնեա՜լ է Յարութիւնն Քրիստոսի: :)

I still think, though that the use of "is" instead of "has" in the past participle is related to Germanic/Old English influences, when rendering the phrase into modern English. Or maybe people just think it sounds more Biblical that way.
 
Yes I believe Maria Sotskova is going senior. Didn't she say it was essentially because the Russian junior ladies field will be a bloodbath next season? Silly girl, it's also the same way in senior! :laugh:

I really like her and wish her all the best. I feel like she's overlooked in comparison to the other ladies.
 
SarahSynchro said:
Yes I believe Maria Sotskova is going senior. Didn't she say it was essentially because the Russian junior ladies field will be a bloodbath next season? Silly girl, it's also the same way in senior! :laugh:
Click to expand...
Well, she was close to the podium at nationals last season even with junior PCS, plus she's got a decent shot at Grand Prix podiums and maybe even finals. And even if she doesn't immediately shoot into top ranks in her first senior season, that still leaves her in better position than being buried under a next wave of juniors. At least it gives her an opportunity to build reputation with the judges and get used to big competitions.
 
You never know, Sotskova may explode like Medvedeva this season and dominate.
She's lovely girl: tall, pretty and elegant, I think she struggled a little bit this season, because of growth spurt and lack of strength, but she has half of a year and all CSKA resources/coaching to improve her athleticism. With some technical refinement she might be dangerous.
She is also very ambitious, strong-minded and fed up with second places. :angry2::)
 
I love Masha but I doubt what will happen to her next season. I'm not at all positive about her move to Buyanova, considering the group's past history. Let's hope she does well.
 
I also don't get the reasoning of the skaters moving to Buyanova (or do I? get it - funding, CSKA, more power etc.). But these things will be useless in some time unless you produce consistent results.

So far, none of her skaters was consistent. Both Sotnikova and Kovtun have been headcases.
Also, besides Kovtun and Sotnikova, she has not produced any top contenders. Especially compared to Eteri, let alone Mishin etc.

Maria was doing well with Panova, especially considering her growth. Indeed, she has been doing a lot better this season that season before.
And Adian... Oh well, I am so gutted he left Tutberidze after all she has done to him :palmf:

And yeah, honestly, I am not big fan of Buyanova. I don't get her attitude. She considers herself a coach for older skaters, basically does not want to deal with the most difficult job - raising a talanted child, going through all the difficulties together. Why? Is it because she is simply unable and it is much easier to take the hard work of others and later present it as your great "creation"?...
As far as people talk, she tried to take away quite a number of skaters from other coaches. e.g. Radionova... That does not give her much love from fans that is for sure...
 
MsLiinaLii said:
I also don't get the reasoning of the skaters moving to Buyanova (or do I? get it - funding, CSKA, more power etc.). But these things will be useless in some time unless you produce consistent results.

So far, none of her skaters was consistent. Both Sotnikova and Kovtun have been headcases.
Also, besides Kovtun and Sotnikova, she has not produced any top contenders. Especially compared to Eteri, let alone Mishin etc.

Maria was doing well with Panova, especially considering her growth. Indeed, she has been doing a lot better this season that season before.
And Adian... Oh well, I am so gutted he left Tutberidze after all she has done to him :palmf:
Click to expand...

It kinda caught me off guard with her moving to Buyanova, her relationship with Panova seemed great
also Buyanova mostly poach skaters she's not good at nursing young skaters, she has tried to poach Radionova before but got Proklova instead

now Goncharenko, Elena's coach is getting more skaters again, Kovtun and Voronov :reye:
still couldn't get over she disbanded her young team and let go of Samarin, Proklova, Bernardiner etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mathman
Is GOAT a meaningful concept?
5 6 7
Replies
124
Views
6K
4everchan
4everchan
AlexBreeze
2027 Russian Nationals: General Info & Pre-game Chat
Replies
1
Views
413
lariko
lariko
tsuyoboogie
2026 Aqua Cup | Jul 17 - 18
4 5 6
Replies
102
Views
7K
hermine17
hermine17
gsk8
News Minkyu Seo focused on growth ahead of senior debut
Replies
2
Views
778
ladyjane
ladyjane
tsuyoboogie
2026 Sainichi Holdings Cup Spring Figure Skating Competition | May 02~04
4 5 6
Replies
103
Views
5K
hermine17
hermine17
Back
Top