Poll: Best all-around female skater?

[miki88]

It was the most important element of anything outside of jumps in Ladies skating, for quite some time, including the majority of Yu-Na's competitive career.

:thumbsup:

It's sad how the spirals got relegated to a minor element in recent years. It is still my favorite element in figure skating and Michelle's spirals were iconic. Michelle didn't have natural flexibility but you can see from her spirals that she worked on her extension and presentation.

As for the poll, All time : Michelle Kwan
Current: Mao Asada

 

[Skater Boy]

1) Caro
2) Mao
3) Zhenia *just due to age and experience
4) Yulia
5) Satoko
6) Liza
7) Ashley
8) Anna
9) Gold
10) Lena

Honorable mentions:
1) Adelina - could be the best here and #1 in the list if she competed more than once a year and had consistent jumps.
2) Osmond - not competing due to injuries, but easily could get a spot on the list
3) up-and-coming Japanese and Russian juniors

Oh no OSMOND is injured again???? That is too sad.

 

[koatcue]

Oh no OSMOND is injured again???? That is too sad.

Don't panic! I actually don't know about her current state, just wrote the list due to several seasons.

 

[lappo]

It's sad how the spirals got relegated to a minor element in recent years. It is still my favorite element in figure skating and Michelle's spirals were iconic. Michelle didn't have natural flexibility but you can see from her spirals that she worked on her extension and presentation.

Sad, indeed. Wish they could bring spirals to their past glories. Michelle's were pure magic!

 

[koatcue]

It's sad how the spirals got relegated to a minor element in recent years. It is still my favorite element in figure skating and Michelle's spirals were iconic. Michelle didn't have natural flexibility but you can see from her spirals that she worked on her extension and presentation.

Sad, indeed. Wish they could bring spirals to their past glories. Michelle's were pure magic!

Sasha Cohen one love

 

[mrrice]

I'm not sure I understand this poll. Until someone knocks her off the podium, Medvedeva is the clear winner of this contest. She's great at everything, Hence ( I hate that word ) the World Title. Evgenia is the best all around skater in the world and she has the gold medal to prove it. This is a very exciting time in Ladies skating. There are at least 10 Ladies I can think of who could win worlds and it wouldn't be a shock. There are a ton of strong young skaters but, there are still some very strong veterans who could pull off the win similar to Maria B. and take the title. Mao, Ashley, Katelyn, and former silver medalist Alena Leonova, all come to mind

 

[mrrice]

Midori Ito. Those jumps!

Midori Ito and Tonya Harding. I never saw Midori perform live but I did see Tonya in 1991 and there's no doubt that she was the best "Jumper" from 1989 through 1991. After seeing the way she was brought up and the people who raised her, it's a miracle that she went as far as she did.

 

[Arriba627]

Midori Ito and Tonya Harding. I never saw Midori perform live but I did see Tonya in 1991 and there's no doubt that she was the best "Jumper" from 1989 through 1991. After seeing the way she was brought up and the people who raised her, it's a miracle that she went as far as she did.

Tonya was an awesome jumper and with a little better packaging (costumes, music), I think the sky would have been the limit for her. But still, I always enjoyed her skating.

 

[gourry]

Mao had good speed and edging in her spirals. It's true that Yu-Na often did better than Mao in that regard, but when you are a doing a spiral in FULL SPLIT position and various other difficult positions, it is inherently impossible to have as deep of an edge. There is NO way that Yu-Na would ever be able to have her normal speed and edging on a spiral if she tried to do a position like that. The position is a difficult thing to attain, it's a specific skill unto itself, not just a "pose" as you try to call it. Mao's spirals were better. She did something that Yu-Na could not. If Mao wanted to make her body positions far more easy, then she could have done a spiral with more ice coverage.


Yes, Yu-Na is a little better in terms of ice coverage, but her positions are all weaker and look at the way her free leg bobbles down when she goes to do the change of edge on the spiral.

This will be my last post regarding this issue because I don't feel comfortable to derail from the OP too much.

So you and I both agree there is trade off between edge/speed/ice coverage and position. Yet you seem to assume had Mao paid less attention to position she would have acquired Yuna level edge/speed/ice coverage whereas vice versa is not true.

Let me show you something. Here are fancams of Yuna and Mao from same competition from same seat that shows the whole rink.(I chose these videos because they were the only videos I could find on Youtube that meets the conditions. It's kind of hard to find fancams of Mao.) Both are doing change of edge spirals. Yuna holds hers for about 12 sec, and Mao about 10 sec.

Yuna's change of edge spirals from 2008 GPF SP
Mao's change of edge spirals from 2008 GPF SP

Now, using the logos on the ice as a reference point, we can see Yuna covers twice as much ice both in length and width as Mao. Twice. It's not just a little better as you seem to think. And it didn't happen often. It was always the case when it comes to their spirals. Yes Mao had superior positions, but Yuna had superior speed and coverage, which is possible by deeper edging and control on spirals. It's also a skill itself that you seem to very underappreciate for some reason.
Had Mao sacrificed her positions, would she have become twice faster and covered twice much ice? You don't know that. And I doubt that. Feel free to check other videos that Youtuber uploaded from that competition. Nobody comes even close to Yuna's ice coverage in spirals. (Maybe Carolina? Hard to tell 'coz hers was zoomed in.)

When you watch on TV, speed doesn't transfer as well as positions because the camera keeps focusing on you and move with you. You can't really feel how fast or how much ice someone is covering. In that sense, Yuna was in disadvantage. It makes me very sad when people casually say Yuna's spirals weren't great because they were great.

 

[mrrice]

From Gourry,

When you watch on TV, speed doesn't transfer as well as positions because the camera keeps focusing on you and move with you. You can't really feel how fast or how much ice someone is covering. In that sense, Yuna was in disadvantage. It makes me very sad when people casually say Yuna's spirals weren't great because they were great.

This comment is correct. I've seen several skaters in person over the years and it was shocking to see how fast some of these skaters are, in person. Even more shocking IMO, is the sound of the skaters blades when they are stroking around the ice. Fumie Suguri and Elena Liashenko are the fastest Ladies skaters I've seen in person. Patrick Chan is THE fastest, smoothest, loudest skater I have even seen. Now, I only saw Johnny Weir once at that was when he was a Junior. He was definitely the best skater in the event and IMO, was way ahead of silver medalist Evan Lysacek. Johnny had very deep edges for such a thin young man.

 

[miki88]

The thing about Yuna's spirals were that her positions really tended to be lackluster. I always felt they were her least favorite element, not surprised that she rarely did them after rules changed for spirals.

 

[Barb]

Only Mao Asada

 

[tzazu]

Mao

 

[kiara_bleu]

I'm not sure I understand this poll. Until someone knocks her off the podium, Medvedeva is the clear winner of this contest. She's great at everything, Hence ( I hate that word ) the World Title. Evgenia is the best all around skater in the world and she has the gold medal to prove it. This is a very exciting time in Ladies skating. There are at least 10 Ladies I can think of who could win worlds and it wouldn't be a shock. There are a ton of strong young skaters but, there are still some very strong veterans who could pull off the win similar to Maria B. and take the title. Mao, Ashley, Katelyn, and former silver medalist Alena Leonova, all come to mind

Agree with you about Medvedeva and I will give her the benefit of the doubt that she can continue to consistently be in the top 5 next season. I say top 5 because I don't think her placing outside of top 3 in any given competition should be some kind of omen of the end of her career. Outside of Kim Yuna, who has never placed out of the top 3 in any international competition in her senior career, pretty much every veteran skater (even the ones considered the best and the greats in the sport) has had bad competitions or difficult seasons. I really admire how she handled the Worlds competition. I noticed how nervous she was before her short and she was more tentative than her past competitions. But she was able to put that performance aside and do her long with confidence and authority. Very remarkable for someone her age and at her very first senior worlds. That kind of resilience is not easy to teach or coach.

Oh, and she won that championship and not just survived it. Ashley Wagner and Anna Pogorilaya had the best skates of their life in both short and long programs. Satoko Miyahara skated cleanly in both. I can't remember if Radionova had any big mistakes but I think she skated as well as she could. Gold did a really great short but I think she was the only one of the top ladies that had critical mistakes in her long.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Comparing the skaters of the last 20 years makes me realize how strong of an all around skater Michelle was. Despite subpar spins I'd probably pick her.

 

[MaxSwagg]

This will be my last post regarding this issue because I don't feel comfortable to derail from the OP too much.

So you and I both agree there is trade off between edge/speed/ice coverage and position. Yet you seem to assume had Mao paid less attention to position she would have acquired Yuna level edge/speed/ice coverage whereas vice versa is not true.

Let me show you something. Here are fancams of Yuna and Mao from same competition from same seat that shows the whole rink.(I chose these videos because they were the only videos I could find on Youtube that meets the conditions. It's kind of hard to find fancams of Mao.) Both are doing change of edge spirals. Yuna holds hers for about 12 sec, and Mao about 10 sec.

Yuna's change of edge spirals from 2008 GPF SP
Mao's change of edge spirals from 2008 GPF SP

Now, using the logos on the ice as a reference point, we can see Yuna covers twice as much ice both in length and width as Mao. Twice. It's not just a little better as you seem to think. And it didn't happen often. It was always the case when it comes to their spirals. Yes Mao had superior positions, but Yuna had superior speed and coverage, which is possible by deeper edging and control on spirals. It's also a skill itself that you seem to very underappreciate for some reason.
Had Mao sacrificed her positions, would she have become twice faster and covered twice much ice? You don't know that. And I doubt that. Feel free to check other videos that Youtuber uploaded from that competition. Nobody comes even close to Yuna's ice coverage in spirals. (Maybe Carolina? Hard to tell 'coz hers was zoomed in.)

When you watch on TV, speed doesn't transfer as well as positions because the camera keeps focusing on you and move with you. You can't really feel how fast or how much ice someone is covering. In that sense, Yuna was in disadvantage. It makes me very sad when people casually say Yuna's spirals weren't great because they were great.

It is easy to get speed a-la Yuna when you have mostly crossovers.

 

[JuliaHols]

It's more that she either nails everything or pretty much nothing. It's worlds or NHK and not often something in between. But nevertheless, Anna had 3 clean competitions this year - one of them was "only" a senior B, but the other 2 the most important competitions she had, Nats and Worlds. She was also clean at her first worlds in 2014 and made the worlds team 3 years in a row... she's by no means consistent, but by now I'd count more on Anna to deliver at an important event than basically everyone not Satoko, Evgenia or Elena.



That's a great ranking IMO, I'm not sure if Julia will really return strong enough, but I hope she does.
Also, great to see Kaetlyn! This girl had so much trouble with injuries, but she has so much potential... she's got everything when she lands her jumps and I'd take her over every other north american lady then. Fingers crossed next season will be great for her.

I feel like Katelyn is kinda like the female Denis which is sad because they're both so prone to injury but are both pretty amazing all-round skaters imo.

I'm think Ashley in the current field is pretty all rounded. I know her jump problems are still there at times but I always find myself looking forward to her performance most and I love her expressions, which to me, is a very important.

 

[kiara_bleu]

It is easy to get speed a-la Yuna when you have mostly crossovers.

Do you see her doing a crossover in the middle of that spiral that literally go from one end of the rink to the farthest end? And going back to the original point of whether Yuna is the best all around skater...if having a bad spiral means that she is taken out of consideration as one of the best, then which skater is so perfect and without any flaws whatsoever?

 

[kiara_bleu]

I feel like Katelyn is kinda like the female Denis which is sad because they're both so prone to injury but are both pretty amazing all-round skaters imo.

I'm think Ashley in the current field is pretty all rounded. I know her jump problems are still there at times but I always find myself looking forward to her performance most and I love her expressions, which to me, is a very important.

I also think Ashley has developed into a well rounded skater. I think I heard someone say this before about Ashley but she might not have that one exceptional aspect of her skating (although one can argue that her ability to perform has become her greatest asset) but that she does everything well even though she's not the best on any one thing.

 

[temadd]

Ashley Wagner - She is the only skater in the past 10 years whose programs I watch over and over and don't tire of them. She has consistently improved and increased her level of difficulty year after year. She has a 3-3 combo and a 3-.5-3 combo (most others do 1 3-3 and a 2A-3T or a 3-2-2 combo). Her connection to her music is always spot on. She performs for 95% of every program even when she makes a mistake on a jump. Most other skaters give a little face at the beginning and the end of the program (or none at all) and nothing in the middle.

There have been so many other great skaters in the recent past but they don't have the ability to grab me from beginning to end and wow me with technical difficulty as well.