Poll: Best all-around female skater?

[skateluvr]

Not by Me!! She was a true Diva!!! I don't remember where I saw her for the first but she did a program to Firebird and she had huge falling leafs, big jumps and fast spins. I'll check BRB

Here it is. Her Nationals from way back in 2011. kind of a blurry copy though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17uTwCAUtrw

Joannie is a dream skater. Yuna won gold and Mao made history but the world cried withbJoannie. Amazing unforgettable champion.

 

[Skater Boy]

Eh, I'd say she was plenty valued, seeing as how her Silver at 2009 Worlds wasn't really deserved in my opinion. She lacked consistency, many of her spins were ugly (CoP rules are partially to blame there), and her programs were rarely ever artistically great. Her 'Don Juan' program is the only one I cared about much, when she refined it in the 2nd season that she used it.

That said, she had a LOT of talent. It just wasn't brought out the best it could have been...much like Ashley Wagner. I'm not sure why Joannie dropped her 3Toe+3Toe combo after 2005; she was consistent with it that season and it would have helped her going forward (especially using it in the SP). Anyway, I wish she would have kept competing. She seemed to become more self-confident and fluid after 2010 Olympics. I will always remember her for having an awesome 3Toe+half loop+3Sal combo.



How do you figure that? Asada and Yu-Na were both scored higher there and several other ladies had better spirals as well (although Nagasu was strangely not scored as such in the SP). Spirals were not a great element for Joannie, regardless of what the inflated SP score said. She worked that forward catch-foot position as best she could, but none of her positions were ever very pleasing.

Oh BOP lol. We hear you and your entitled to your opinions just as we are. I thought i saw the score for her spirals and it was second; i also read it somewhere but regardless the point is in my humble opinion when she was on she definitely deserves to be rated top all around or considered. The problem for us really to compare is we are all using different criterias - consisency certainly would move Yuna and Michelle up; difficult of jumps moves Mao, pure beauty and grace Sasha, Musicality Oksana Baiul heck someone even said Tara for youthful exuberance though I would give that to Baiul who combined grace, style, musicality and youthful exuberance in her long p rogram while Tara may be the best all around spinning top - not great height or flow or distance but a spinning top. There will some who would leave off Kwan because she ended with the start of COP and her spins and spirals while beautiful were not COP friendly necessarily. I don't think people should suggest Rochette was overmarked. Her skills and style though different than Kostner are amazing and at least she was more consistent than Carolina who was like a roller coaster. And with skaters like Hanyu, Kostner, Chan falling all over the ice and still placing and scoring well that is a fact of COP that your skating skills can hold you up and hence why she beat Mirai which people keep saying generous markings due to her mom's death. Joannie's program are amazing especially in light of crossover Yuna. Anyways it is just an opinion. But I do agree with BOP she should have kept the 3 toe 3 toe and the 3 flipl 1/2 loop 3 salchow.

 

[Skater Boy]

1. Barbara Ann Scott
2. Karen Magnussen





Mirai was a delight, but Joannie's mature command of her program and command of the ice ruled the day.

As for Joannie versus Mao, the way the Olympic stage was set to provide a big showdown between Mao with her triple Axels and Yuna with her Yuna-ness, there was really no way that gold and silver were going to come out any different unless Mao or Yuna made some major errors. Joannie was great, though.

True kind of like the battle of the Carmens when the little Canadian dynamo shocked the world and almost Katarina Witt, the girl with the evil eye/stares, = had judges marked perhaps more fairly Ito ahead in the lp or Witt one spot lower as thought deserved then Witt would only have one oly gold- she does not realize how luck y seh was. But again the danger of this thread is that it was so poorly written it leaves it wide open as all around skater and who. I will say this because of COP I do think they all around skating skills and such have improved but with the loss of figures the skating skills have suffered but for Lambiel, Buttle, Chan and Kostner. Others are good but not of the same gloriousness of those skaters. Kudos to Yuna, Mao, Joannie, Daisuke, Hanyu, Adelina, D Ten, Abbott, Javier to a point, et al but they do not compare to the rare greats.

 

[Skater Boy]

^^ BOP I said, most of the times....i liked her spins... of course, there were several examples of them not being great. However, she wasn't a weak spinner compared to some others who really have not so nice ones

I hear you Rochette certainly had problems sometimes on jumps and spins as most do. I am more amazed that BOP has an amazing memory or has the time and energy to look all this up. I know she is not the princess type like the Americans or Asian ladies but there is something awesome about her skating. But we will never all agree in this forum and if we do surely the world has ended.

 

[4everchan]

indeed ... BOP has a huge talent when it comes to finding the one video or two that will show that at one point, a skater missed something i do not have that talent, nor time, nor memory... and yes, it's bound to happen, we will disagree. Joannie remains for me, undervalued in an era that, as Mathman said, had written another scenario: the battle of yuna and mao... nobody cared about the other talent in those years.... it's unfortunate. If anything right now, with the ever changing skaters on the worl podium, it is more open, and people can appreciate the whole top ten.... this year's top ten for instance featured a lot of good skaters.

I hear you Rochette certainly had problems sometimes on jumps and spins as most do. I am more amazed that BOP has an amazing memory or has the time and energy to look all this up. I know she is not the princess type like the Americans or Asian ladies but there is something awesome about her skating. But we will never all agree in this forum and if we do surely the world has ended.

 

[Blades of Passion]

But I do agree with BOP she should have kept the 3 toe 3 toe and the 3 flipl 1/2 loop 3 salchow.

Well she never did 3Flip+half loop+3Sal, but that would have been awesome if she competed in 2011 and tried it when the rule change made it worthwhile!

I am more amazed that BOP has an amazing memory

Someone has to do it! I always like to think about how to improve things, it makes me replay performances over in my head a lot, if not outright on video. The internet and mobile devices are a lovely thing!

indeed ... BOP has a huge talent when it comes to finding the one video or two that will show that at one point, a skater missed something

Sorry but it's not just one or two videos with Joannie's spins. Look at any performance of hers in CoP era...they just weren't very good.

 

[4everchan]

^^ in the video posted earlier in this thread, they are centered.

Of course, she's no Lucinda Ruh... nobody is...

 

[Blades of Passion]

^^ in the video posted earlier in this thread, they are centered.

Not sure what you're looking at, but she definitely travels at the start of her Layback and also somewhat while getting into Y position of her combo spin in her Olympic SP.

Like I was saying, though, in the combo spin it actually worked with the music, relaying the texture. The way she travels a bit for a couple rotations and her free leg is continually being raised upward, it was a good match with how the music is suddenly swirling and increasing in intensity. A quirk that worked in that moment! I'm always interested by unintended things like this that actually add more character to a program. But, yeah, the spin itself still wasn't great The camel could have been better, that Y position could have better line (the skating leg is bent and the back not totally straight), and the ending of the spin could have more detail.

Don't want to be mean, but it's a cop-out to say "nobody is a Lucinda Ruh". These are the details that are supposed to be assessed. Many people had better spins than Joannie, even if they were also "not Lucinda Ruh". It's all about gradients. If Lucinda Ruh was a 10 in spinning, then Joannie was a 5. And others were a 6, or a 7, or an 8...or a 4.

 

[4everchan]

a 5? wow... and what i am looking at is a video posted already in this thread... we have been commenting on Joannie's all-around skating prowess based on that specific example where she delivers a strong program with good jumps and spins... even the commentators mentioned how great she was.... I will let you scroll back if you wish. As far as I am concerned, I have rightfully or not, put Joannie in my very narrow list of best ever skaters. YMMV

 

[mary01]

I was also thinking only Michelle Kwan comes to mind But I think that is a disservice to skaters like Mao and Carolina who despite their inconsistencies are among the best well-rounded skaters as well. They had their issues but...I don't know how to phrase this or clearly say what I mean... Mao and Caro seems to be more natural skaters. Mao especially, watching her skate is like watching fish in water. That's where she is meant to be. And Caro has beautiful jumps she just struggled mentally. Under rotations or not, landed or not, it boggles my mind that Mao is still out there doing triple axels more than a decade later. Kwan and Kim at their peak can sell a program like nobody's business...

THIS!
My vote goes undoubtly also to Mao Asada, not only has she demonstrated every skill that exist in figure skating, she excels in every kind of element, and has demonstrated the most complex programs in women's figure skating during her career, and presentation wise she has a elegant and refined uniq style that only belongs to her!

 

[Globetrotter]

THIS!
My vote goes undoubtly also to Mao Asada, not only has she demonstrated every skill that exist in figure skating, she excels in every kind of element, and has demonstrated the most complex programs in women's figure skating during her career, and presentation wise she has a elegant and refined uniq style that only belongs to her!

As I mentioned earlier, I would have given my vote to Mao except for her inconsistency. Unfortunately for me, competitive nerves rank high on my personal value of greatness. All the "greats" in various sports are generally the toughest competitors and have no real glaring weakness if not the most mercurial or naturally talented.

 

[Skater Boy]

There is lot of passion out there no double entendre intended as to who is the best all around skater but as I mentioned the wording of this thread was the first problem - no idea of time, the lack of criteria and whether consistency was a factor or not. Every skater arguably especially with this crew can find something good and bad about a skater. Kwan one can complain and argue about her simple un COP spins, spirals and puny jumps, Yuna her spirals, too many cross overs and no loop, Irina lack of musicality and line, Adelina lack of musicality, Julia lack of amplitude on jumps, Sasha lack of consistnecy, good edge, Medveda lack of amplitude on jumps and musicality, Mao lack of consistency, edge p roblems and sometimes her arms look too long, flailying or whatever,Miyahara puny pre rotated jumps, Arakawa and Ando sometimes lacked musicality and consistency, Tara too junior and smallish jumps, Sarah too unspectacular, Oksana too inconsistent lack of combos, Sato and Chen too inconsistent, not greatest spirals, Witt sometimes poor line, unpointed toes and too simple jumps, Kostner most inconsistent. It is in the eye of the beholder - no one is perfect espeically in light of the technical dificult increases.

 

[koatcue]

There is lot of passion out there no double entendre intended as to who is the best all around skater but as I mentioned the wording of this thread was the first problem - no idea of time, the lack of criteria and whether consistency was a factor or not. Every skater arguably especially with this crew can find something good and bad about a skater. Kwan one can complain and argue about her simple un COP spins, spirals and puny jumps, Yuna her spirals, too many cross overs and no loop, Irina lack of musicality and line, Adelina lack of musicality, Julia lack of amplitude on jumps, Sasha lack of consistnecy, good edge, Medveda lack of amplitude on jumps and musicality, Mao lack of consistency, edge p roblems and sometimes her arms look too long, flailying or whatever,Miyahara puny pre rotated jumps, Arakawa and Ando sometimes lacked musicality and consistency, Tara too junior and smallish jumps, Sarah too unspectacular, Oksana too inconsistent lack of combos, Sato and Chen too inconsistent, not greatest spirals, Witt sometimes poor line, unpointed toes and too simple jumps, Kostner most inconsistent. It is in the eye of the beholder - no one is perfect espeically in light of the technical dificult increases.

 

[koatcue]

I'll say that Adelina's only problem is quite big - her jumps, or, to be more clear, her consistency on them.

 

[Ophelia]

There is lot of passion out there no double entendre intended as to who is the best all around skater but as I mentioned the wording of this thread was the first problem - no idea of time, the lack of criteria and whether consistency was a factor or not. Every skater arguably especially with this crew can find something good and bad about a skater. Kwan one can complain and argue about her simple un COP spins, spirals and puny jumps, Yuna her spirals, too many cross overs and no loop, Irina lack of musicality and line, Adelina lack of musicality, Julia lack of amplitude on jumps, Sasha lack of consistnecy, good edge, Medveda lack of amplitude on jumps and musicality, Mao lack of consistency, edge p roblems and sometimes her arms look too long, flailying or whatever,Miyahara puny pre rotated jumps, Arakawa and Ando sometimes lacked musicality and consistency, Tara too junior and smallish jumps, Sarah too unspectacular, Oksana too inconsistent lack of combos, Sato and Chen too inconsistent, not greatest spirals, Witt sometimes poor line, unpointed toes and too simple jumps, Kostner most inconsistent. It is in the eye of the beholder - no one is perfect espeically in light of the technical dificult increases.

The question is "best ALL-AROUND", not "who embodies perfect skater", and the latter question is what some posters are mistakenly answering. Flaws are taken into account for "best all-around". You can think of it as "which skater has the least significant degree of shortcomings" when you consider their entire package.

 

[Pracygr]

Indeed. Saying that Medvedeva is lacking in musicality is like saying that Michael Jordan, although a fine basketball player, really needed to work on his air time.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

What the what @ Mao's arms sometimes looking too long.

And as much as I'm not a fan of Evgenia, she's not un-musical. Neither is Adelina, fuuuuu... her last years SP, seriously!

 

[temadd]

What the what @ Mao's arms sometimes looking too long.

And as much as I'm not a fan of Evgenia, she's not un-musical. Neither is Adelina, fuuuuu... her last years SP, seriously!

I agree. I would not call Evgenia un-musical but she does seem to show emotional connection to the music for only the first 10-15 seconds and the last 5 seconds of her program. The rest of the time she's pretty much business.

 

[Mathman]

Love me some Mao arms!

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...5sRwJf48Nw2HgsU3BFdnHzPjx5XxjWEfD9J74IsWRj7Qy

 

[Blades of Passion]

As I mentioned earlier, I would have given my vote to Mao except for her inconsistency. Unfortunately for me, competitive nerves rank high on my personal value of greatness.

I would say her "inconsistency" has largely been the result of trying to do the most difficult programs ever attempted. Where would everyone else be if they tried to do a 3Axel in every program, plus a second 3Axel or a 3Flip+3Loop in every Long Program?