Can we no longer enjoy skating?

[Alex D]

Today,

was a good day for musicians and fans in Germany, as Youtube made a deal with GEMA. For those that don't know about their legal dispute an explanation. GEMA takes care of the rights for musicians and labels based in Germany, but also World Wide. Since they want to make as much money for "their artists" and arguably themselves, they demanded that music in Germany is blocked or that Youtube pays them lots of money for each person who watches a copyright protected piece of music (0.375 Euro cents per click). Some statistics spoke of about 40-60% of music, by popular artists which was therefore unavailable to watch in Germany. This included music videos, talk shows, video games, DJ sets and yes, also figure skating videos like of Madison Chock & Evan Bates.

Most of us in Germany, found ways to get around that, but we still had the legal issue if we wanted to upload something that might be a problem for GEMA, so that in theory our video was not made public due the copyright situation and our accounts closed. Quite often came skaters to the OC, asking why they can not watch their videos, as at home it´s not a problem and all we could say is "GEMA"...

With today, these problems are history, at least for videos where GEMA is managing the music rights (over 70k artists alone in Germany) and over the next few days, more and more videos will become available again, like of Mr. Bieber, SIA or Paul van Dyk.

Now you may ask, why do I bring this up and the answer is simple. Due the situation for us in Germany, watching a figure skating video gave you a great feeling, as you were grateful that you were able to watch it, as accessibility was so low.
Said accessibility, however, might be one of the reasons why fans world wide, have stopped being so appreciative of the performances they see, especially younger fans. In theory, you can watch FS 24/7, each program will be at the internet and each week two or three events may be hold. Figure Skating, has become a non stop operating business, even in summer competitions are held or new ones as the team trophy introduced. Fans start to cherry pick, as the selection is so big and quite often former visitors of our events in Germany, reported that they can watch it online, so why spend money and go to the rink!?

We also see declining numbers in NA for the GP series, another event that is available online, free to watch on demand at the ISU channel and of course YT.

Another situation is, that at home, a "fan" has hours to find each single flaw in a program and let´s face it, there are no perfect programs. A skater might once look out of character, might once lose the balance or might once have a bad landing - it´s just there for everyone, just like judges have become even more transparent now and can be analyst again and again.

You know, it made me thinking if that huge negativity about judging, skaters recycled programs, coaches and choreographers being bad, pre rotations, music choice ... are mostly coming up now, as fans stopped to appreciate the sport? In the past, all we had was a TV broadcast, maybe some of us taped it, but we could neither discuss it at forums or rewatch it in super slowmotion until we found the flaws. Also to consider is something that I call the "swarm attitude". If someone comes up with a story about someone, there will always be people who join him or her. We had this with Yulia last season, where she did not thank a flower kid and all of a sudden, the internet turned against her. Same we could see with Gracie Gold and her "weight" statement, it was instant news and people united against the skater, no matter how silly the reason for it was.

Skating fans, seemed to be less rude and strict about a skaters performance, motion or public life in the past, they enjoyed the moment and stayed for each skater and discipline, traveled far and were very appreciative if a skater signed a picture or they could take one.

Today, with social media and daily updates on a skaters performances, non stop availability of their programs and them as a private person, many people forgot (in my opinion), what a great artistic sport FS is, but also that a skaters mind isn´t their own and it may be one among many reasons, why FS is facing such a high level of toxicity lately and why fans have lost the interest in the sport.

Quite often when I see posts about certain skaters, I ask myself the following questions

"Would any of that, still come up, if fans could see the skaters once, maybe twice, if there wouldn't be as much data available and if technology wouldn´t provide the tools to analyze each single second of a skaters program and life? Would people be more appreciative about the hard work, skaters and judges, but also officials put into the sport? Would our life in general, be much better if we wouldn't have access to everything, every day?"

 

[ssffww]

Today,

was a good day for musicians and fans in Germany, as Youtube made a deal with GEMA. For those that don't know about their legal dispute an explanation. GEMA takes care of the rights for musicians and labels based in Germany, but also World Wide. Since they want to make as much money for "their artists" and arguably themselves, they demanded that music in Germany is blocked or that Youtube pays them lots of money for each person who watches a copyright protected piece of music (0.375 Euro cents per click). Some statistics spoke of about 40-60% of music, by popular artists which was therefore unavailable to watch in Germany. This included music videos, talk shows, video games, DJ sets and yes, also figure skating videos like of Madison Chock & Evan Bates.

Most of us in Germany, found ways to get around that, but we still had the legal issue if we wanted to upload something that might be a problem for GEMA, so that in theory our video was not made public due the copyright situation and our accounts closed. Quite often came skaters to the OC, asking why they can not watch their videos, as at home it´s not a problem and all we could say is "GEMA"...

With today, these problems are history, at least for videos where GEMA is managing the music rights (over 70k artists alone in Germany) and over the next few days, more and more videos will become available again, like of Mr. Bieber, SIA or Paul van Dyk.

Now you may ask, why do I bring this up and the answer is simple. Due the situation for us in Germany, watching a figure skating video gave you a great feeling, as you were grateful that you were able to watch it, as accessibility was so low.
Said accessibility, however, might be one of the reasons why fans world wide, have stopped being so appreciative of the performances they see, especially younger fans. In theory, you can watch FS 24/7, each program will be at the internet and each week two or three events may be hold. Figure Skating, has become a non stop operating business, even in summer competitions are held or new ones as the team trophy introduced. Fans start to cherry pick, as the selection is so big and quite often former visitors of our events in Germany, reported that they can watch it online, so why spend money and go to the rink!?

We also see declining numbers in NA for the GP series, another event that is available online, free to watch on demand at the ISU channel and of course YT.

Another situation is, that at home, a "fan" has hours to find each single flaw in a program and let´s face it, there are no perfect programs. A skater might once look out of character, might once lose the balance or might once have a bad landing - it´s just there for everyone, just like judges have become even more transparent now and can be analyst again and again.

You know, it made me thinking if that huge negativity about judging, skaters recycled programs, coaches and choreographers being bad, pre rotations, music choice ... are mostly coming up now, as fans stopped to appreciate the sport? In the past, all we had was a TV broadcast, maybe some of us taped it, but we could neither discuss it at forums or rewatch it in super slowmotion until we found the flaws. Also to consider is something that I call the "swarm attitude". If someone comes up with a story about someone, there will always be people who join him or her. We had this with Yulia last season, where she did not thank a flower kid and all of a sudden, the internet turned against her. Same we could see with Gracie Gold and her "weight" statement, it was instant news and people united against the skater, no matter how silly the reason for it was.

Skating fans, seemed to be less rude and strict about a skaters performance, motion or public life in the past, they enjoyed the moment and stayed for each skater and discipline, traveled far and were very appreciative if a skater signed a picture or they could take one.

Today, with social media and daily updates on a skaters performances, non stop availability of their programs and them as a private person, many people forgot (in my opinion), what a great artistic sport FS is, but also that a skaters mind isn´t their own and it may be one among many reasons, why FS is facing such a high level of toxicity lately and why fans have lost the interest in the sport.

Quite often when I see posts about certain skaters, I ask myself the following questions

"Would any of that, still come up, if fans could see the skaters once, maybe twice, if there wouldn't be as much data available and if technology wouldn´t provide the tools to analyze each single second of a skaters program and life? Would people be more appreciative about the hard work, skaters and judges, but also officials put into the sport? Would our life in general, be much better if we wouldn't have access to everything, every day?"

Interesting points. I think this applies to a lot more than just figure skating. With the advent of social media, we have as a society become far more judgmental of everything from the safety and relative anonymity of our keyboards.

 

[noidont]

I wondered what was up with most of youtube blocked every time I got into Germany. A bit extreme.

 

[Lysambre]

If people didn't love it, they just would stop watching and not talk about it at all .

The reason we love to agree or disagree with each other is because we love it so much.

What you call basically over-exposure, I call : accessibility to everyone, and I think this has been the best thing to happen to Figure skating.

FS went from being a very popular sport, and then it started to fall in the shadows more and more. The fact that it's now easy, on and off season, to watch pretty much any program, well, that makes it way more interesting. It makes it accessible to anybody, at anytime, it removes the barriers that FS had built around itself.

I can tell you, since the mid 90's, watching FS had become a rarity for me. First, because our TV don't show any unless there is a skater from our country... and well, let's be honest, except for dance, we've not been so great. And that had made me want to watch less and less, to the point where I actually, for a time, almost forgot that the sport even existed.

For five years now, though, I've been able to watch more and more (thanks to Youtube and Dailymotion, mainly), and it has renewed my love for this sport. During the off season, I miss it so much. Being able to re-watch my favourite moments, over and over again, it makes me happy all over again.

In the end, no matter how much people fight over here, they only do it because they are passionnate about FS. Which I happen to think is fantastic :agree:.

 

[Biellmann]

Nah, people just want to control everything, mostly they are not happy in their own lives. It's all about compensation and narcissism, you can see it in other sports too

 

[Eclair]

First, it's great to hear that GEMA blocked videos are going to drop! It was pretty annyoing when I couldn't watch a skaters programm because I didn't catch it on TV because it was blocked on youtube.

Second, you're 'worries' about constant available content I have heard like thousand times, mostly from, forgive me, old people who have a general mistrust towards everything new, especially in technologies. I have to say, without youtube, I would have never started following figure skating. Without this forum, I would have never gotten as emotionally involved in how the judging systems works, whether underrotations and edges should matter and if and when scoring went out of hand. Without social media I would have never fallen in love with Ashley's personality or see the different, crazy side of Boyang. I appreciate, that I can watch my favourite skaters on youtube whenever I want (or not if it was geoblocked) and as many times I want, showing them to anyone who has a laptop I want, without going through the process of searching for broadcast times, recording it, developing a system so that I can find it when I search for it etc etc.

 

[Mrs. P]

I don't agree on blaming accessibility for trolls/negative comments. There were people making comments like you mentioned LONG before live streaming became mainstream -- when Golden Skate didn't even have its own forum space (you can ask MM or Doris about that). Golden Skate actually dates back to the late 1990s.

People disputed Kwan and Lipinski on BBS -- guys remember those -- and AOL chat rooms. The comments were ALWAYS there, the medium was just different. Perhaps the only difference is that social media/forum/allows for an OUTPOURING of negativity that didn't exist previously.

Also I feel like a few vocal people on GS or any Internet medium do not speak for ALL skating fans either.

I'm SO glad that ISU offers live streaming of JGP -- even when it was just one guy following every skater around. It's because of that I can see how certain skaters/couples have grown from the junior to their days in senior program.

and let's face it, I do not have the money to go every skating competition. Going to Worlds in the U.S. was a huge sacrifice both financially and on the part of my husband who was willing to watch my baby daughter alone for four days so I could get a break. And I am in a favorable financial position. Imagine if you're a student or with less financial means. Live streaming is a good thing.

Also, yeah, there's a few jerks on GS and other forums, but for the most part --it's also one of the few places where people can talk about a sport they love. I think one of the highlights of Worlds --besides seeing the competition -- was organizing the meetups. And almost everyone there said they were glad for GS because it was an outlet they didn't have offline.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I think what you're pondering about at the end of your OP basically comes down to the eternal "ignorance is bliss" dilemma of life. Things can be much simpler and more relaxing if you don't know about certain complications or details or happenings in the World that would otherwise worry you or dampen your enjoyment of something. Yet, to ignore these facts of life would be wrong.

Besides that, the judging system of skating itself in the modern era is part of the "lesser enjoyment", because the skaters themselves are not enjoying themselves as much during performances. They are overly concentrated on doing rockers and counters and various spin positions and such. Spontaneity and joy in skating is largely gone. There's little room to be in the moment and just do what you feel, because every single step and movement of the program is already set, and if you deviate from it at all, you know you're losing points. This kind of robotic choreography further dampens the "artistry" of the programs themselves and thus the audience enjoyment.

Since we are stuck with what we have, that is then what we have to focus on. It's tedious to constantly talk about underrotations and such, but it has to be done in order to be fair. The judging system itself is still a problem here too, since there is a lack of objectivity and consistency in the calls and such a disparity in the score when calls are made, with additional GOE deductions being given when they shouldn't be.

 

[brightphoton]

That was a lot of mental gymnastics for your conclusion. Instead of writing all that, you could have made a proclamation:

"Everyone, I am now king of Golden Skate. Here is a list of my favorite skaters.
1. X
2. Y
3. Z
You are only allowed to say good things about those skaters.

Good day."

 

[Rissa]

Frankly, it seems to me you're looking a gift horse in the mouth. Accessibility is NOT a bad thing.

 

[dreamsk8]

Would our life in general, be much better if we wouldn't have access to everything, every day?

I think I get what you are saying. And I do to an extent agree. I am only in my 20's but I can say I see how much different thing are from just when I was a kid to now. We live in an overstimulated world where people want to feel like they are personally a part of and involved in everything. And everything whether for the better or not has to be bigger and better. Example the Green Dress Peggy Fleming wore to win the 1968 Olympics versus any dress worn in the ladies competition now.

 

[mrrice]

I don't agree on blaming accessibility for trolls/negative comments. There were people making comments like you mentioned LONG before live streaming became mainstream -- when Golden Skate didn't even have its own forum space (you can ask MM or Doris about that). Golden Skate actually dates back to the late 1990s.

People disputed Kwan and Lipinski on BBS -- guys remember those -- and AOL chat rooms. The comments were ALWAYS there, the medium was just different. Perhaps the only difference is that social media/forum/allows for an OUTPOURING of negativity that didn't exist previously.

Also I feel like a few vocal people on GS or any Internet medium do not speak for ALL skating fans either.

I'm SO glad that ISU offers live streaming of JGP -- even when it was just one guy following every skater around. It's because of that I can see how certain skaters/couples have grown from the junior to their days in senior program.

and let's face it, I do not have the money to go every skating competition. Going to Worlds in the U.S. was a huge sacrifice both financially and on the part of my husband who was willing to watch my baby daughter alone for four days so I could get a break. And I am in a favorable financial position. Imagine if you're a student or with less financial means. Live streaming is a good thing.

Also, yeah, there's a few jerks on GS and other forums, but for the most part --it's also one of the few places where people can talk about a sport they love. I think one of the highlights of Worlds --besides seeing the competition -- was organizing the meetups. And almost everyone there said they were glad for GS because it was an outlet they didn't have offline.

This is a great comment. Let me tell you, there are far fewer "Trolls" than there used to be and this forum has by far the most well behaved, passionate, and knowledgeable fans of the others. As an "Older" skating fan, I appreciate that I can discuss past events with people who actually know what, and whom, I'm writing about. As someone who spent a lot of time traveling, I like the fact that I can discuss skaters from other countries without being told to move to Russia....:disapp: That's what someone said to me when I posted a report from Worlds in 1999. I mentioned Maria Butyrskaya and then went on to say that I'd taken the Ferry to St Petersburg where I tried HOT Borscht with Giant Meat Balls. It was Spectacular.........This forum and the people who belong to it have gotten me through some rough times. In fact, I've received some good advice from people on this forum who I enjoyed speaking with for what seems like years. Seriously, If I didn't have Mrs. P, 4everchan, Plushy Fan, AlexRus, Osmond4Gold and FlattFan, who would understand my jokes......:disapp: Holy Cow.......I forgot Iluvtodd. Sorry...

After going through my mailbox, I have had some good conversations with Several Members over the last year. This site is fantastic. Shout out to us ALL..

 

[Mrs. P]

This is a great comment. Let me tell you, there are far fewer "Trolls" than there used to be and this forum has by far the most well behaved, passionate, and knowledgeable fans of the others. As an "Older" skating fan, I appreciate that I can discuss past events with people who actually know what, and whom, I'm writing about. As someone who spent a lot of time traveling, I like the fact that I can discuss skaters from other countries without being told to move to Russia....:disapp: That's what someone said to me when I posted a report from Worlds in 1999. I mentioned Maria Butyrskaya and then went on to say that I'd taken the Ferry to St Petersburg where I tried HOT Borscht with Giant Meat Ball. It was Spectacular.........This forum and the people who belong to it have gotten me through some rough times. In fact, I've received some good advice from people on this forum who I enjoyed speaking with for what seems like years. Seriously, If I didn't have Mrs. P, 4everchan, Plushy Fan, AlexRus, Osmond4Gold and FlattFan, who would understand my jokes......:disapp:

Thanks for the shoutout -- and I always appreciate your posts as well!

(And those YouTube videos of you dancing. :thumbsup: )

 

[andromache]

I don't really see the critiques as overwhelming negative or unnecessarily negative.

Being passionate about something, at least for me, means analyzing it over and over and over, investing myself into explicating every little detail. And that analysis is usually about finding strengths and weaknesses, things I enjoy (and figuring out WHY I enjoy them) and things that could still be improved.

Plus, well, this is a sport. It isn't a skating show put on for charity or Disney on Ice. It is a competition, which means that some people are better than others, and we can discuss reasons why.

You should hear the way people yell and complain about the referees in basketball or the umpires in baseball, or swear at the TV at their favorite players for making silly mistakes.

Because this is a discussion forum, I think respectful and reasoned discourse is important - but I don't think that means we should focus exclusively on complimenting all skaters all the time. That would be a disservice to the sport.

 

[Mrs. P]

Would our life in general, be much better if we wouldn't have access to everything, every day?

I think I get what you are saying. And I do to an extent agree. I am only in my 20's but I can say I see how much different thing are from just when I was a kid to now. We live in an overstimulated world where people want to feel like they are personally a part of and involved in everything. And everything whether for the better or not has to be bigger and better. Example the Green Dress Peggy Fleming wore to win the 1968 Olympics versus any dress worn in the ladies competition now.

Yeah, I totally agree with this. And I'm also against cyberbullying, which seems to be easier with the tools at people's disposal.

I want to be clear that I don't condone the actions of a few toward skaters online. However, going back to "the way things are" isn't really a solution, IMO.

"Would any of that, still come up, if fans could see the skaters once, maybe twice, if there wouldn't be as much data available and if technology wouldn´t provide the tools to analyze each single second of a skaters program and life? Would people be more appreciative about the hard work, skaters and judges, but also officials put into the sport? Would our life in general, be much better if we wouldn't have access to everything, every day?"

Can I tell you what I did Sunday night? I wrote down the scores of each of the top 4 couples at Skate America and Skate Canada element by element in the SD. Then I watched YouTube videos of the couples by elements to compare and see whether I could understand why they receive those scores.

I started with the Midnight blues pattern, then the partial step sequence, and so on.

Doing it this way made me MORE appreciate of skaters' efforts. There were things I didn't noticed watching it wholesale that I noticed when I watched each element couple by couple.

My enjoyment of the sport was enhanced by this exercise. So to answer your question above. Yes, perhaps an abundance of information has caused more armchair judging. But has it made me less appreciative of skaters' hard work then when I was nine years old and could only watch it for an hour or two on television? No.

 

[TGee]

At the risk of showing my age, I can honestly say that much of what is said in critiques now is mild, and at least able to be backed up by some kind of evidence as compared with the 70s, 80s, or 90s. And in the 70s and 80s, different media were used, but it wasn't kinder...or critique free.

Some of my earliest sports memories include folks ranting about Trixie Shuba and the heavy emphasis on school figures in the old scoring system. And the suspicion and loathing, in Canada at least, related to the old 6.0 system was ongoing through the decades. 6.0 wasn't transparent, no one could figure out where the numbers came from, and folks went on constantly about bias, nationalism, and conspiracies with a strong dose of Cold War politics thrown in for good measure.

So folks were definitely not 'just enjoying skating' in my experience. . .

....and for me Salt Lake City in 2002 was the final straw. I followed the scandal. And then I never watched skating again, until I had kids of my own on the ice and an IJS that is at least is trying to be fair.

 

[4everchan]

:agree:

At the risk of showing my age, I can honestly say that much of what is said in critiques now is mild, and at least able to be backed up by some kind of evidence as compared with the 70s, 80s, or 90s. And in the 70s and 80s, different media were used, but it wasn't kinder...or critique free.

Some of my earliest sports memories include folks ranting about Trixie Shuba and the heavy emphasis on school figures in the old scoring system. And the suspicion and loathing, in Canada at least, related to the old 6.0 system was ongoing through the decades. 6.0 wasn't transparent, no one could figure out where the numbers came from, and folks went on constantly about bias, nationalism, and conspiracies with a strong dose of Cold War politics thrown in for good measure.

So folks were definitely not 'just enjoying skating' in my experience. . .

....and for me Salt Lake City in 2002 was the final straw. I followed the scandal. And then I never watched skating again, until I had kids of my own in the ice and an IJS that is at least is trying to be fair.

 

[Ice Dance]

I always think that the more I see of the sport, the more I appreciate the very best. And athletes in the middle tiers. And the growth of athletes as they mature. You used to only be able to watch the top 5-10 skaters even in the biggest events and now you can see SO much more. Juniors and Senior B events and juveniles at Nationals. You get an even better experience from attending an event, but most people cannot afford the ticket prices or travel expenses or days off in order to attend skating competitions. And until you attend one, you never used to know what you were missing.

Commentators used to rail about one athlete winning over another. And some people wrote whole books complaining. But when you see the whole field, you see how amazing those top athletes are. And you can follow athletes' careers when they compete outside local and well-aired events. The year Worlds were last held in Russia, not a single available TV Network had it available where I live. Last year the Men's Worlds final was replaced by a regional basketball game. I am so grateful for the many options we have now in order to watch skating. In most cases, without these new venues, there would be no option.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I don't really see the critiques as overwhelming negative or unnecessarily negative.

Being passionate about something, at least for me, means analyzing it over and over and over, investing myself into explicating every little detail. And that analysis is usually about finding strengths and weaknesses, things I enjoy (and figuring out WHY I enjoy them) and things that could still be improved.

Plus, well, this is a sport. It isn't a skating show put on for charity or Disney on Ice. It is a competition, which means that some people are better than others, and we can discuss reasons why.

You should hear the way people yell and complain about the referees in basketball or the umpires in baseball, or swear at the TV at their favorite players for making silly mistakes.

Because this is a discussion forum, I think respectful and reasoned discourse is important - but I don't think that means we should focus exclusively on complimenting all skaters all the time. That would be a disservice to the sport.

Totally agree. You want mean? Go to any Yankee/Red Sox game. That makes this place look like an etiquette academy. Hell, NYers even scream and say the nastiest things about their own players (yes, A-Roid, I mean A-Rod, I'm thinking of you).

I'm old enough to remember the days when the only time you could see ice skating on tv was: Nationals, Worlds, Olympics. And even then you only got the top three programs--maybe. And the occasional addon. Live streaming is a godsend.

And it's easy enough to ignore a troll. I take great enjoyment is passing a troll's comment by, so I can spend time reading comments by people who have entertained and enlightened me here for years. All for free.

I think Free may be my favorite four-letter word in the English language, though of course YMMV.

 

[piona]

tl;dr

was GENAU ist denn dein Problem?
(in einem Satz, bitte!)