Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Yatagarasu]

I read this as him altering his entry/exit honestly. ... It doesn't necessarily mean he will change his layout, I think.

I did too at first but technically, it could mean both things. But yes, that layout is iffy so doubtful. I do hope so at least!

 

[Marin]

What I have read his 4S3T was a bit not "pafect" so he decided to do 4T3T too , 4 combos in LP ))

He said Now his condition is good enough to break WR, However he doesn't want to do same thing like last year Programs are different and he now just want to deliver what he should do,He praise a lot of Nathan's jumps He said he will do his best to perform each parts and believe himself and deliver his performances (press conference )

 

[mcq]

He looked all smiley and happy in the press conference. I'm glad. :luv17:

I did too at first but technically, it could mean both things. But yes, that layout is iffy so doubtful. I do hope so at least!

What I have read his 4S3T was a bit not "pafect" so he decided to do 4T3T too , 4 combos in LP ))

Yeah, I think if he was to do it he would do it in the place where he does his 4S3T. Actually his layout is always iffy to me
He is so insisting on doing 4-3 combo in the 2nd half when a layout like this --> 4Lo 4S2T 3F // 4S 4T 3A3T 3Alo3S 3Lz give him only 0.13 pts less than his planned layout.
If he does 4T3T instead of 4S3T he will lose at least 0.2 pts BV too + risk of aggravating lisfranc, so yeah, I will just forget trying to make some sense of his layout.

 

[Yatagarasu]

... give him only 0.13 pts less than his planned layout.
.. so yeah, I will just forget trying to make some sense of his layout.

You just know he's thinking that 0.13 could make it or break it in the end ... but yes iffy all right, so on that scale, this is worse
We definitely shouldn't really think much about it, it'll just give us a headache!

I'm happy he sounds very positive though, so looking forward to tomorrow.

 

[riminin]

I did too at first but technically, it could mean both things. But yes, that layout is iffy so doubtful. I do hope so at least!

Acutually, word to word translation would be "We’ve brushed up the choreography of my free program. Choreography before the quad in the second half of the program is now different, so please watch out".

When I read that in Japanese I didn't suppose for a moment that he changed entry or layout tbh but just added more movements/steps before or between the two quads. That would be nice because it was a bit empty.

 

[mcq]

You just know he's thinking that 0.13 could make it or break it in the end ... but yes iffy all right, so on that scale, this is worse
We definitely shouldn't really think much about it, it'll just give us a headache!

I'm happy he sounds very positive though, so looking forward to tomorrow.

Hahahah. Yes indeed!

You know that he is perhaps the only skater who does a 4-3 combo in the second half? Nobody else does this afaik. Not Javi, not Patrick, not Shoma, not Nathan, not Boyang, not Reynolds, not Aaron. Only Yuzuru Hanyu

 

[Yatagarasu]

You know that he is perhaps the only skater who does a 4-3 combo in the second half? Nobody else does this afaik. Not Javi, not Patrick, not Shoma, not Nathan, not Boyang, not Reynolds, not Aaron. Only Yuzuru Hanyu

:luv17: I didn't even think about it tbh, brilliant.
He did say he wants to do what others cannot, so he's on his way!

Acutually, word to word translation would be "We’ve brushed up the choreography of my free program. Choreography before the quad in the second half of the program is now different, so please watch out".

Ah thank you! Yes, what we get in English and what he actually says in Japanese is often not the same, so thank you so much. So he added the choreo, I am pleased too, many of us commented on it. I think his improved stamina also helps here, he probably can actually do it now.

 

[mcq]

:luv17: I didn't even think about it tbh, brilliant.
He did say he wants to do what others cannot, so he's on his way!

Yep. I think this is one example and proof of how he doesn't do things just for the sake of points. But in order to challenge himself. :luv17:

 

[riminin]

Ah thank you! Yes, what we get in English and what he actually says in Japanese is often not the same, so thank you so much. So he added the choreo, I am pleased too, many of us commented on it. I think his improved stamina also helps here, he probably can actually do it now.

You're welcome. It's amazing how well you guys are informed and don't fail to follow every bit of information in Japanese. Yes, Orser said the free program in Skate Canada was a mere bare bone so I am sure we are going to see a richer program here.

Nikkan Sports (printed version) quotes Ms Shirota saying "He has no injury. He's in a top condition". Sorry if it's already mentioned in the thread.

 

[lappo]

Hahahah. Yes indeed!

You know that he is perhaps the only skater who does a 4-3 combo in the second half? Nobody else does this afaik. Not Javi, not Patrick, not Shoma, not Nathan, not Boyang, not Reynolds, not Aaron. Only Yuzuru Hanyu

He wants me dead anyway, much respect, he is really like no one else!

 

[Yatagarasu]

Nikkan Sports (printed version) quotes Ms Shirota saying "He has no injury. He's in a top condition". Sorry if it's already mentioned in the thread.

Nothing to be sorry for. You know, you can repeat that ten times and all ten times I'll experience warm, fuzzy feelings of happiness that last a good few minutes. It's such a nice thing to read.

 

[Pamigena]

When me quickly checking the thread on my phone ends with other people saying things like "why you smiling like that? Stop that, it's creepy"

Thanks for the updates everyone :luv17:

 

[gsyzf]

Yep. I think this is one example and proof of how he doesn't do things just for the sake of points. But in order to challenge himself. :luv17:

Every skater does things to get points, as long as there is enough reward to compensate the risk take. If he doesn't care about points at all, he would've done 3a-3a-3a sequence of other 3a sequences. He doesn't do that because the points rewarded for those sequences don't adequately compensate the risk. In COP era, there are different ways to get points. Every skater capitalizes on his strength rather than his weakness to gain points, if he is rational.

There are other skaters who do/plan quad combo in the 2nd half, e.g. Boyang, Shoma, Nathan. They do 4-2 rather than 4-3 because their quads aren't that stable yet, or they are not capable of doing 4-3 in the 2nd half.

The 4t3t maybe the back up combo when he falls on the 4s in the 2nd half. If he falls on the 4s in the 2nd half and fails to execute 4s3t in competition, he will need to make up the 3t combo on another jump. 4t3t may just be that backup combo.

Once Yuzuru adds 4lz to his program, he won't get REP deduction on his 4S in the 2nd half when he falls on it. I think he is willing to risk doing 4s3t in the 2nd half because he eventually plans to add 4lz to his LP.

He is doing 4lo, 4s3t rather than 4lo3t, 4s in the SP now because he just started to include 4lo in competitions and he still falls on 4lo. He can't do 4lo3t when he falls on 4lo. 4lo, 4s3t is his only realistic option in the sp right now. Once his 4lo becomes more consistent in competition, then it's more possible to do 4lo3t.

--------
ETA:

4t3t may also be a combo he plans when he adds 4lz to his LP. His LP layout with 4lz maybe

4lo, 4lz, 3f/4s3t, 4t3t, 3a, 3a-1lo-3s, 3lz

 

[mcq]

There are other skaters who do/plan quad combo in the 2nd half, e.g. Boyang, Shoma, Nathan. They do 4-2 rather than 4-3 because their quads aren't that stable yet, or they are not capable of doing 4-3 int he 2nd half.

Exactly why I think he did not do it for just the points. He could do what other skaters do. Do 4-2 combo and do the 3-3 instead of 4-3 and 3-2. But he didn't. For now, there is no rewards point-wise for him in choosing this layout. But he did anyway.

 

[gsyzf]

Exactly why I think he did not do it for just the points. He could do what other skaters do. Do 4-2 combo and do the 3-3 instead of 4-3 and 3-2. But he didn't. For now, there is no rewards point-wise for him in choosing this layout. But he did anyway.

Nobody does something only for points most of the time. Every skater gains some psychological satisfaction for doing things. But they wouldn't do that if the points they get don't compensate the risk they take. In almost every occasion, the psychological satisfaction is not enough to compensate the risk taken.

He was doing 4-2 and 3-3 in the 2nd half last season when his quad in the 2nd half wasn't very stable. Skaters do get some invisible benefits/points for doing 4-3 in the 2nd half. They want to make a statement to the judges/audience that they have superior skills, and judges do give higher scores (whether it's GOE to the 4-3 or PCS) to skaters who try 4-3 in the 2nd half, everything else equal.

 

[Biellmann]

At least his hair is fine

 

[mcq]

Nobody does something only for points most of the time. Every skater gains some psychological satisfaction for doing things. But they wouldn't do that if the points they get don't compensate the risk they take. In almost every occasion, the psychological satisfaction is not enough to compensate the risk taken.

Um, this is exactly what I said though. He didn't do things just for the sake of points, because if he does, he would have chosen a safer layout with similar content that would generate the same or almost the same BV. He thinks ahead, and whatever planned layout he has in his head, he chooses it to further and challenge himself into the next step. I did not said, nowhere in my statement, that he did not care about points. No need to type wordy lengthy paragraph and explanation in reply as if I said those. Geez.

The 4t3t maybe the back up combo when he falls on the 4s in the 2nd half. If he falls on the 4s in the 2nd half and fails to execute 4s3t in competition, he will need to make up the 3t combo on another jump. 4t3t may just be that backup combo

This one won't work with current rules. His second 4S would be deemed as REP and if he does 4T3T combo he would need to get rid of 1 combo on his 3A. He usually change his 3A2T into 3A3T combo if he fell on his repeated quad. That's all he could do.

 

[xibsuarz]

Every skater does things to get points, as long as there is enough reward to compensate the risk take. If he doesn't care about points at all, he would've done 3a-3a-3a sequence of other 3a sequences. He doesn't do that because the points rewarded for those sequences don't adequately compensate the risk. In COP era, there are different ways to get points. Every skater capitalizes on his strength rather than his weakness to gain points, if he is rational.

There are other skaters who do/plan quad combo in the 2nd half, e.g. Boyang, Shoma, Nathan. They do 4-2 rather than 4-3 because their quads aren't that stable yet, or they are not capable of doing 4-3 in the 2nd half.

The 4t3t maybe the back up combo when he falls on the 4s in the 2nd half. If he falls on the 4s in the 2nd half and fails to execute 4s3t in competition, he will need to make up the 3t combo on another jump. 4t3t may just be that backup combo.

Once Yuzuru adds 4lz to his program, he won't get REP deduction on his 4S in the 2nd half when he falls on it. I think he is willing to risk doing 4s3t in the 2nd half because he eventually plans to add 4lz to his LP.

He is doing 4lo, 4s3t rather than 4lo3t, 4s in the SP now because he just started to include 4lo in competitions and he still falls on 4lo. He can't do 4lo3t when he falls on 4lo. 4lo, 4s3t is his only realistic option in the sp right now. Once his 4lo becomes more consistent in competition, then it's more possible to do 4lo3t.

I'm not sure he can do that. Because if he falls in the second 4S he still gets the REP thing. Doesn't it count as a combination? A missed one, but a combination nonetheless. If it does count then he can't tackle an extra 3T, it happened at Worlds. He could have at least added a 2T to the 3Lo but didn't.

Btw thanks everyone for the updates! I'm glad he seems to be in such good spirit for this competition :yes:

 

[gsyzf]

This one won't work with current rules. His second 4S would be deemed as REP and if he does 4T3T combo he would need to get rid of 1 combo on his 3A. He usually change his 3A2T into 3A3T combo if he fell on his repeated quad. That's all he could do.

I'm not sure he can do that. Because if he falls in the second 4S he still gets the REP thing. Doesn't it count as a combination? A missed one, but a combination nonetheless. If it does count then he can't tackle an extra 3T, it happened at Worlds. He could have at least added a 2T to the 3Lo but didn't.

Btw thanks everyone for the updates! I'm glad he seems to be in such good spirit for this competition :yes:

The rules have changed 1-2 years ago. A fall on a repeated jump doesn't get count as a combination any more. He can do another combo after that. I think at worlds, he probably forgot to add 2t to 3lo or he didn't have a backup plan.

 

[gsyzf]

Um, this is exactly what I said though. He didn't do things just for the sake of points, because if he does, he would have chosen a safer layout with similar content that would generate the same or almost the same BV. He thinks ahead, and whatever planned layout he has in his head, he chooses it to further and challenge himself into the next step. I did not said, nowhere in my statement, that he did not care about points. No need to type wordy lengthy paragraph and explanation in reply as if I said those. Geez.

What I'm saying he only does things when the points he gets at least compensate the risk he takes. Everyone faces the same rules. They can't go against the rules if they want to win. Their decisions are points oriented. My understanding of doing something not for the sake of points, is only if someone does something when the points rewarded don't compensate the risk (i.e. high risk, low reward). As long as the person gets at least enough points reward for the risk taken, i.e. he doesn't lose more points by doing something (e.g. he doesn't lose more points by doing 4-3 and 3-2 than doing 4-2 and 3-3 and the potential score he can get for doing 4-3 and 3-2 is higher than doing 4-2 and 3-3, i.e. doing 4-3 and 3-2 is high risk, high reward.), then he is doing it for the sake of points. Basically I'm saying, I disagree that he is not doing things for the sake of points. I do think he does things for the sake of points (most of the time) because that's a must if he wants to win. YMMV.

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ETA:

I listed a few scenarios that he does high risky things but his fans consider his risk taking as irrational. I explained that why I think he gets more points for doing those risky things. I don't remember he ever did/planned risky layouts that have lower scoring potential than alternative layout options (at least in the long run).

ETA:

This is not directed at you.

When fans claim that he is taking irrational risk just for the sake of taking risk or challenging himself and not for the sake of points, do they consider all the possible points he may gain by doing a more risky layout? He may not gain any points or even lose points now, but he will gain more points in the future. What is the rest of the field doing? Are they catching up? He may not gain any points in the BV explicitly, but he may gain more points in GOE and PCS indirectly. The current layout may appear to be too risky, but the alternative layouts are even more risky or have even lower scoring potential and are thus worse options. Is he the chaser or the one being chased?

(Ladies don't get extra BV for doing 3-3 in the LP. But many ladies, if not every lady in top 15-20 attempt 3-3 in the LP. Some attempt two 3-3s or do 3-3 in the 2nd half. Do they all attempt 3-3 not for the sake of points? Doing 3-3 is seen as superior. Girls who don't attempt 3-3 are perceived as inferior and will get 2nd tier scores because judges don't see them as medal contenders. Even doing easy 3-3 is not good enough. Doing harder 3-3 increases the PCS and/or GOE even if it doesn't increases the BV. For men, doing 4-3 is perceived as having superior skills. Doing 4-3 in the 2nd half is even more impressive. When everyone skates clean, the difference in PCS will just come down to who has superior tech, e.g. who does more difficult transitions with good quality, how many 4-3 do they attempt, how many quads do they attempt, how many types of quads do they attempt, how many quads do they attempt in the 2nd half, how many 4-3 do they attempt in the 2nd half, etc.)

In fact, many people who were skeptical with Yuzuru's strategies were proven wrong. Yuzuru's strategies have always been proven right. Athletes compete to win/medal/to get the best results possible. They all try to game the system to milk every point possible. The skaters with best results are also best strategists in the field. IMO, just because fans/coaches are short sighted or can't see the bigger picture, doesn't mean yuzuru is reckless and irrational. Yuzuru is the smartest and most rational strategist in the field.