2016-2017 State of Canadian Figure Skating

[Mango]

I wish I had Stephen's Free. It was an excellent skate, about 60 spectators, a shame really.

Oh we shared it here. The link: https://youtu.be/Im72Bjtcesc

 

[TGee]

With regard to US selection criteria for Worlds/Olympics:

ONLY the US champion is guaranteed a berth to Worlds/Olympics. When there are other spots, additional criteria can come into play. In 2014, Gracie Gold won, Polina Edmonds was 2nd, Mirai Nagasu was 3rd, and Ashley Wagner was 4th. But the US sent Gold, Edmunds and Wagner to Olympics and Worlds, not Nagasu, citing performance over the two years leading up to 2014 Nationals. Wagner had been a two-time US champion and GPF medalist during that period, while Nagasu had been 7th at Nationals twice in a row and had inconsistent international results over the same period.

Thanks chuckm,

It's interesting that there is a mix of discretionary and mandatory slots for the US.

So, if there happens to be only one slot, the US national champion gets it even if, say, the skater bombed at every international outing that season without illness, injury or other exceptional circumstance and the score of the second place finisher was very close....

I can see where I got the sense that US nationals are do or die, even if there is some flexibility for the second and third slots if available.

 

[4everchan]

Welcome to Golden Skate syl20c. Post long, post often! Do you happen to know the Carle family? Thanks for sharing the video.

In regards to NHK, I was a bit about Alaine. Her PCS were :noshake: For some reason this season she's doing better in the FS. I'd welcome Pina if she went back to it, but I like this program too, especially if she cans skate it clean. I want her to change that spin she got a level 2 on. It's not a stable spin.

Meagan & Eric - I knew this would happen. It's nothing new by now. Actually, SCI and Worlds 2016 were likely more of an anomaly when it comes to their marks. They should just focus on doing what they need to do in the FS. Just go with the flow. GOEs and PCS be damned.

Nam - damn bro it was going so well. The judges still think he's not artistic enough though.

Elladj! :thumbsup: Going to Bruno was a great decision. Julie's choreo for this SP is great. Love the entrance into that spin.

And now we await some smooth Prince choreo. No matter the results, I'm just happy to see Tessa & Scott back and competing. I want to see the cool moments, the two decades of partnership on ice, the connection between the two kids from Western Ontario that brought the nation to its feet in 2010.

i have no problem with nam getting lower pcs scores in some categories... he's still developing but he sold the performance and was quite a god interpreter... imho, he should receive more credit for what he does... no goes + either...

for d/r : not worried... not a great skate for them. they will redeem themselves in the free,

alaine : i love that spin but yeah... yesterday was a messy skate...perhaps she thought she had an outside chance to qualify with her 4th place at skate canada.... and put some pressure on herself... a win here would have done it for gpf for her... perhaps even a second place.... so yeah... who knows what happened to her... her lutz is so stable but it has failed her twice recently.

 

[Mango]

i have no problem with nam getting lower pcs scores in some categories... he's still developing but he sold the performance and was quite a god interpreter... imho, he should receive more credit for what he does... no goes + either...

for d/r : not worried... not a great skate for them. they will redeem themselves in the free,

alaine : i love that spin but yeah... yesterday was a messy skate...

Oops I'm rewatching and I got Alaine's spin wrong. She actually got a level 4 for the layback, but that's the one that was going all over.

Oh yeah, I'm with you about Nam. He's like a few miles behind some of the other Canadians. I find it strange that he came through Skate Canada's system, considering how many artistic skaters we have. But then again, Joanne McLeod was his coach in the formative years....

D/R's SP issues are like a déja vu. Hope that FS goes better but no pressure. Only Chock/Bates have to worry about pressure, really.

 

[4everchan]

i am missing an allusion here ????

PS i love elladj

Oops I'm rewatching and I got Alaine's spin wrong. She actually got a level 4 for the layback, but that's the one that was going all over.

Oh yeah, I'm with you about Nam. He's like a few miles behind some of the other Canadians. I find it strange that he came through Skate Canada's system, considering how many artistic skaters we have. But then again, Joanne McLeod was his coach in the formative years....

D/R's SP issues are like a déja vu. Hope that FS goes better but no pressure. Only Chock/Bates have to worry about pressure, really.

 

[TGee]

i have no problem with nam getting lower pcs scores in some categories... he's still developing but he sold the performance and was quite a god interpreter... imho, he should receive more credit for what he does... no goes + either...

for d/r : not worried... not a great skate for them. they will redeem themselves in the free,

alaine : i love that spin but yeah... yesterday was a messy skate...

On Nam, it's the SS that are the issue as far as I can tell. He really isn't at senior men speed this year, and without the speed and variation in speed, SS will hit a ceiling, and the rest of PCS are also bounded.

But I think he is picking up speed over the season, but his current choreography seems not to be designed for it. He took the step sequence and some of the transitions more quickly in the SP and looked to be running out of room at some points, including when a jump took him to the boards. That sense of the program not being designed for the space at that speed would also legitimately hit PCS.

 

[4everchan]

yeah... that's why i was not happy because he did look much better than at SA speed wise... but of course... he does look slow... especially in jump set ups but then again... if you look at Misha Ge for instance, he takes half an hour to set up his 3A...

On Nam, it's the SS that are the issue as far as I can tell. He really isn't at senior men speed this year, and without the speed and variation in speed, SS will hit a ceiling, and the rest of PCS are also bounded.

But I think he is picking up speed over the season, but his current choreography seems not to be designed for it. He took the step sequence and some of the transitions more quickly in the SP and looked to be running out of room at some points, including when a jump took him to the boards. That sense of the program not being designed for the space at that speed would also legitimately hit PCS.

 

[Mango]

i am missing an allusion here ????

PS i love elladj

Bock skate to "Under Pressure" in the FD. All you hear in the rink is repeated cries of, "PRESSURE!"

Elladj Backflips coming in the gala if he's invited I tell you.

I forgot to mention that TGee made a good post about Alaine's KnC situation with Michelle. She looks so tough on Alaine, it's saddening. Alaine was already down about the tech, but Michelle's attitude wasn't helpful. Even in Skate Canada I was wondering what was going on. Alaine needs support in the KnC. The tech discussion will come later anyways.

 

[4everchan]

Bock skate to "Under Pressure" in the FD. All you hear in the rink is repeated cries of, "PRESSURE!"

Elladj Backflips coming in the gala if he's invited I tell you.

I forgot to mention that TGee made a good post about Alaine's KnC situation with Michelle. She looks so tough on Alaine, it's saddening. Alaine was already down about the tech, but Michelle's attitude wasn't helpful. Even in Skate Canada I was wondering what was going on. Alaine needs support in the KnC. The tech discussion will come later anyways.

i see.. i am so not a fan of their FD that i only watched it once and will not watch it again until worlds

and yes... Elladj will be invited in the gala... he has to be...

re ALaine : from the beginning of this thread... i suggested it's time for her to explore the world on her own... to much proximity with her family and coaching staff... she needs to open her wings and fly fly fly.... I wasn't happy either with the KnC... I believe in our 3 ladies but it's clear that Kaetlyn and Ravi have a great relationship and so does Gabby and her coach.. i don't remember how to spell his name so i won't bother and putting his initials could confuse people LOL

i loved how gabby at SA was talking about how to fix things to him and being so positive.... that's what a young and achieving athlete needs to do... take the reigns...

 

[Mango]

i see.. i am so not a fan of their FD that i only watched it once and will not watch it again until worlds

and yes... Elladj will be invited in the gala... he has to be...

re ALaine : from the beginning of this thread... i suggested it's time for her to explore the world on her own... to much proximity with her family and coaching staff... she needs to open her wings and fly fly fly.... I wasn't happy either with the KnC... I believe in our 3 ladies but it's clear that Kaetlyn and Ravi have a great relationship and so does Gabby and her coach.. i don't remember how to spell his name so i won't bother and putting his initials could confuse people LOL

i loved how gabby at SA was talking about how to fix things to him and being so positive.... that's what a young and achieving athlete needs to do... take the reigns...

Lee Barkell and Brian Orser for Gabby. They are good. Lee was one of Jeff's coaches. I agree, Kaetlyn and Ravi have a great relationship. Alaine needs to ditch the roaming and train full time at Cricket Club.

 

[TGee]

Lee Barkell and Brian Orser for Gabby. They are good. Lee was one of Jeff's coaches. I agree, Kaetlyn and Ravi have a great relationship. Alaine needs to ditch the roaming and train full time at Cricket Club.

Don't that it's the roaming that is the issue. It's just easy to look to as it's what she does that's different.

At this point it's really Ottawa or Prescott Monday through Wednesday, and Toronto for the weekend. Her core coaching team is stable, even if they are not all at the same club. Even if she were at one club, she'd still work with a coaching group rotating over the week. The days of an elite coach focusing most of his/her time on a single skater are past. And most folks see the wisdom in accessing the expertise of more than one coach.

I'd heard views that, before her move to Michelle, Alaine was in serious need of a primary coach that she and her family would accept as the true manager and visionary for her. The downside of taking Alaine on the road to access higher level coaching was that there was no true primary coach, but rather a broad set of expert coaching advisors.

Michelle has definitely taken on the primary role, regardless of the time put in with Brian on jumps, or the others who support her in Ottawa and Prescott. But I notice that with the exception of nationals 2016, Alaine performs worse with Michelle there.

So, in my mind, while we can see technical improvements in Alaine's skating and that Michelle can be credited for bringing other folks into help, she may not be the best primary coach in terms of readying and supporting Alaine for competition.

But Cricket full time isn't really a likely option. Even if housing and costs were managed, I don't see Brian Orser taking her on as primary coach and I don't see a fit for her with another member of the Cricket team as primary.

Regarding family, for a reportedly gentle soul like Alaine's moving away isn't necessarily the healthy choice. And their presence in her skating life has moderated as she has matured. What I hear, and see at the competitions Alaine is at, is that she has much more space than when she younger. Her dad still drives her everywhere but isn't close by and on site as much as in the past. That said, the pressure of the whole family coming down to watch her at Worlds was intense surely.

But trading loving family pressure for assertive but grumpy primary coach pressure at competitions doesn't seem like a formula for success.

Couldn't help thinking looking at Michelle Leigh that while Anna Tsareva's smiles are few, her hand squeezes to Anna Pogorilaya as she goes to skate or comes off the ice may be all that needs to be said, and Tsareva's stoicism would be better than the piling on with instant critiques..... Even Meagan Duhamel needs and is given space after a rough skate and she's as tough a competitor as they come.

 

[syl20c]

Fantastic that you will be there!

Would it be possible to share some live reports? It's always so great to get the perspective of someone who was there.

I can try!

 

[Skatergal101]

ohhhh Alaine.... poor girl. Has some work to do before nationals but likely a second last today wont be getting her on the worlds team..

 

[TGee]

ohhhh Alaine.... poor girl. Has some work to do before nationals but likely a second last today wont be getting her on the worlds team..

Expect that the high performance director at Skate Canada will be sitting down with Alaine and with her core coaching team to assess the way forward.

Canadian women are just reaching true competitiveness at the global level. Having three slots for the Olympics and three contenders has to be the goal. But unfortunately, depth beyond Alaine has not been in evidence this fall. So, getting Alaine back on track is essential, even if Kaetlyn is soaring upward and Gabby is making breakthroughs.

Whatever is the strategy for Alaine, it isn't working. Time to make changes.

 

[Mango]

TGee thanks for the insights. The way I see it is that most top level skaters, with the exception of Nam Nguyen (is he really top level, though...) have improved at The Cricket. This list includes Gabby Daleman, Roman Sadovsky, Javier Fernandez, Jun Hwan Cha, and Yuzuru Hanyu. So what is it that's holding Alaine back? And why does she seek The Cricket if Prescott and Canadian Ice Academy are good enough? No, she knows she's missing an environment with top level skaters. An environment she needs to become better. But only spending a fraction of her time there is not helping her. At this point in time it's becoming that with the exception of (maybe) one SP a season she cannot perform well outside of Canada. At this rate she will once again miss the Olympics as Canada is unlikely to get 3 spots. Is she ok with that? She needs to make the decision. She's a big girl now. If she needs to board with someone in the GTA there will be families available. But she needs to decide what's best for her. Because her set up right now, though it may be nice, is not working.

Sorry for this little Alaine rant. I love the girl but she's shooting herself in the foot with these kind of performances and those sad moments in the kiss and cry.

Also - holy guacamole Leanna. Could you make your dislike for Yuzuru any more obvious? :roll9: I see that she's generally a harsh marker (gave Grant marks in the 5s) but she was just begging to get her marks tossed with Yuzuru.

Back after the FD for an NHK recap/medals post.

 

[Nathan13]

. At this rate she will once again miss the Olympics as Canada is unlikely to get 3 spots. Is she ok with that? She needs to make the decision.

Totally disagree with this...I see the Canadian ladies in a much more comfortable place (at the moment) than the US Ladies. Osmond is going to be making a run for the podium, and Daleman is likely to be in the top 10. Of course, the ice is slippery, and it's going to come down to who can skate lights out in Helsinki, but I wouldn't rule 3 spots out as unlikely.

 

[TGee]

TGee thanks for the insights. The way I see it is that most top level skaters, with the exception of Nam Nguyen (is he really top level, though...) have improved at The Cricket. This list includes Gabby Daleman, Roman Sadovsky, Javier Fernandez, Jun Hwan Cha, and Yuzuru Hanyu. So what is it that's holding Alaine back? And why does she seek The Cricket if Prescott and Canadian Ice Academy are good enough? No, she knows she's missing an environment with top level skaters. An environment she needs to become better. But only spending a fraction of her time there is not helping her. At this point in time it's becoming that with the exception of (maybe) one SP a season she cannot perform well outside of Canada. At this rate she will once again miss the Olympics as Canada is unlikely to get 3 spots. Is she ok with that? She needs to make the decision. She's a big girl now. If she needs to board with someone in the GTA there will be families available. But she needs to decide what's best for her. Because her set up right now, though it may be nice, is not working.

Sorry for this little Alaine rant. I love the girl but she's shooting herself in the foot with these kind of performances and those sad moments in the kiss and cry.

Also - holy guacamole Leanna. Could you make your dislike for Yuzuru any more obvious? :roll9: I see that she's generally a harsh marker (gave Grant marks in the 5s) but she was just begging to get her marks tossed with Yuzuru.

Back after the FD for an NHK recap/medals post.

Hi Mango,

Cricket is great, but perhaps I'm not being clear....other things aside, seems likely that there isn't a natural spot for her there. But agree that the time at Canadian Ice Academy is not getting her where she needs to be.

Brian seems to be up for taking on more than on skater in a discipline as primary coach, but I have an inkling that if he'd been open to taking on Alaine or Gabby himself, he would have become primary to one of them a couple years back.

Completely speculating here, but I'm wondering if Skate Canada encouraged Brian to be part of the coaching solution for both of them though....

Gabby moved over to Lee Barkell around he time he moved to Cricket in 2015, and she moved clubs too. So, for Gabby that put Brian as her jump coach where her primary was. And with that she gets the benefit of the entire Cricket team and environment.

Alaine moved from Leonid Birinberg (of Nepean) being her primary coach of record over the course of 2014/15 to Michelle Leigh at the Canadian Ice Academy, with Brian making the commitment to come into Cricket Saturdays (which he reportedly previously took off) in order to work with Alaine with Michelle present.

Doesn't look like there was someone else at Cricket to get behind Alaine as her primary.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Totally disagree with this...I see the Canadian ladies in a much more comfortable place (at the moment) than the US Ladies. Osmond is going to be making a run for the podium, and Daleman is likely to be in the top 10. Of course, the ice is slippery, and it's going to come down to who can skate lights out in Helsinki, but I wouldn't rule 3 spots out as unlikely.

I agree with you Nathan13, that the Canadian women, based on fall performances, could easily be in the top 10 at Worlds, or podium even. If anyone appears on the bubble, it's the US women. It's reminiscent of 2014, with a 5th and 7th place at Worlds and 12 points overall. The US team can certainly turn things around, it just looks concerning based on their competitive season to date.

 

[4everchan]

TGee thanks for the insights. The way I see it is that most top level skaters, with the exception of Nam Nguyen (is he really top level, though...) have improved at The Cricket. This list includes Gabby Daleman, Roman Sadovsky, Javier Fernandez, Jun Hwan Cha, and Yuzuru Hanyu. So what is it that's holding Alaine back? And why does she seek The Cricket if Prescott and Canadian Ice Academy are good enough? No, she knows she's missing an environment with top level skaters. An environment she needs to become better. But only spending a fraction of her time there is not helping her. At this point in time it's becoming that with the exception of (maybe) one SP a season she cannot perform well outside of Canada. At this rate she will once again miss the Olympics as Canada is unlikely to get 3 spots. Is she ok with that? She needs to make the decision. She's a big girl now. If she needs to board with someone in the GTA there will be families available. But she needs to decide what's best for her. Because her set up right now, though it may be nice, is not working.

Sorry for this little Alaine rant. I love the girl but she's shooting herself in the foot with these kind of performances and those sad moments in the kiss and cry.

Also - holy guacamole Leanna. Could you make your dislike for Yuzuru any more obvious? :roll9: I see that she's generally a harsh marker (gave Grant marks in the 5s) but she was just begging to get her marks tossed with Yuzuru.

Back after the FD for an NHK recap/medals post.

finally someone who doesn't throw pcs like candy

agree on your alaine rant... she was my fave last year... she's my number 3 now... i am a very faithful fan... so that means a lot.

 

[chuckm]

Also - holy guacamole Leanna. Could you make your dislike for Yuzuru any more obvious? :roll9: I see that she's generally a harsh marker (gave Grant marks in the 5s) but she was just begging to get her marks tossed with Yuzuru.

To be fair, she was harsh with just about everyone with the possible exception of Jason Brown. I was surprised that she gave Nathan Chen 8s.

She even gave Nam Nguyen 6s when all the other judges gave him 7s.