2016-17 State of Japanese Ladies Skating

[ioanna]

It is worrisome that more and more, Satoko Miyahara is being gigged for URs, even on home ice.

But she deserved them. She can do better than this, she seemed extremely nervous today and she admitted to being very stressed during this whole GPF qualification process.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

But she deserved them. She can do better than this, she seemed extremely nervous today and she admitted to being very stressed during this whole GPF qualification process.

She deserved them, yes.

But the calls overall should be more consistent. For example, Anna Pogorilaya cheats her lutz and flip takeoffs (uses almost the full blade to vault up) and so does Medvedeva. That is not reflected in the scores or GOE. It should be. Even if Pogorilaya had the best performance at NHK, it doesn't negate technique issues. Otherwise, it appears that certain skaters are being singled out for -GOE or for UR/downgrades, and that appears unfair.

The calls should be consistent for everybody because that's more fair and people with better lutz technique (Gold, Tukt, etc.) should be rewarded for doing it correctly.

 

[ioanna]

She deserved them, yes.

But the calls overall should be more consistent. For example, Anna Pogorilaya cheats her lutz and flip takeoffs (uses almost the full blade to vault up) and so does Medvedeva. That is not reflected in the scores or GOE. It should be.

I know, I even pointed out Anna's blade use on her lutz and flip take-offs but nobody thinks it's a big deal.

 

[AsadaFanBoy]

I know, I even pointed out Anna's blade use on her lutz and flip take-offs but nobody thinks it's a big deal.

It's a judged sport so there's subjectivity. I'm glad that people like you are pointing it out.

I've accepted that what the judges / technical team look for will always be behind what fans look at because there's a time sensitivity to competitions and that it will take a while for tech issues to translate.

On another note, I'm so happy NHK wasn't a splatfest! I would've scored Tursynbaeva a lot higher though (yes, even though she fell). Maybe Higuchi too.

 

[chuckm]

Pogo got an "e" call on her flip. That's a pretty big deduction.

 

[[email protected]]

And on reply it is clear that she deserved that e for her flip. But picking on Anna's lutz is another thing. Unlike some Japanese skater who, may be, shifts her weight away but anyway has a clear flat/inside edge at the lutz takeoff without being called Anna's edge is perfectly outside all the way through. She uses almost the full blade but is their a rule that this should be penalized?

 

[Seren]

I think Satoko getting these calls will make her a better skater, and I do see improvement in her jumps this year.

Wakaba is really exciting to me, if she can overcome the popping problem she is a huge contender. She has a lot of maturity for someone who is only 15. I think the future of Japan's ladies looks very bright, especially when looking at all the up and coming juniors.

 

[solani]

And on reply it is clear that she deserved that e for her flip. But picking on Anna's lutz is another thing. Unlike some Japanese skater who, may be, shifts her weight away but anyway has a clear flat/inside edge at the lutz takeoff without being called Anna's edge is perfectly outside all the way through. She uses almost the full blade but is their a rule that this should be penalized?

I want to mention again that I don't think that Anna is using the full blade. She's clearly picking with the toe rake very close to the skating foot, so when she's pivoting (pre-rotating) on the toe rake she's using to lower part of the toe rake, that's why the angle between the ice and the blade looks very flat. I think she would have a nasty fall if the blade would actually touch the ice. And you don't see any snow near the blade.
Those who are using the blade of the picking foot when they are doing flip or lutz actually really pick with the full blade and then take-off via the toe rake. I don't think that a toe rake - blade - toe rake - take-off is physically possible. The last think that leaves the ice is always the toe rake.

 

[kalee]

We've commented on the various dramas in the Russian ladies field -- but how about the Japanese ladies?

1. Kaori Sakamoto has beaten Marin Honda directly in JGP Yokohama and Japan Junior Nationals. She is also ahead of Marin on season's best scores and JGP standings. Is that enough for her to overtake Marin as the top Japanese junior? Since both are likely to turn senior next year, could this also affect their senior GP assignments?

2. After a clear top 3 performers in GP (Satoko, Wakaba and Mai), we have Mao, Rika Hongo and Yura Matsuda who are all pretty close and with Marin, Kaori, Yuna Shiraiwa and Rin Nitaya in the mix, it looks like there are at least 10 contenders for senior GP spots next year -- who will get 2 spots and who might end up with one spot or senior B's?

3. Can Yuna S. turn senior next year, or will she stay in juniors one more year? We know her potential and Japanese Junior Nationals show that she is getting back to her usual form, but in terms of ISU season's best, she is behind all of the above skaters except for Rin and also seems borderline for senior GP qualification.

4. Who will make the 4CC, Worlds and Junior Worlds teams? It is hard to imagine Worlds without Mao, but also difficult to leave out Wakaba or Mai given their GP performances. Could there even be 2 separate teams for 4CC and Worlds, e.g. Satoko, Mai / Wakaba & Mao for Worlds, and Mai / Wakaba (whichever of the 2 was not on the Worlds team), Kaori, and Rika Hongo for 4CC? And then Marin, Rika Kihira and Yuna S could be sent to Junior Worlds to give Yuna another chance to clock a season's best that can get her a guaranteed GP spot.

 

[ioanna]

Apart from 4CC and Worlds there's also the Asian Winter Games in the second part of the season.

 

[Weathergal]

We've commented on the various dramas in the Russian ladies field -- but how about the Japanese ladies?

1. Kaori Sakamoto has beaten Marin Honda directly in JGP Yokohama and Japan Junior Nationals. She is also ahead of Marin on season's best scores and JGP standings. Is that enough for her to overtake Marin as the top Japanese junior? Since both are likely to turn senior next year, could this also affect their senior GP assignments?

2. After a clear top 3 performers in GP (Satoko, Wakaba and Mai), we have Mao, Rika Hongo and Yura Matsuda who are all pretty close and with Marin, Kaori, Yuna Shiraiwa and Rin Nitaya in the mix, it looks like there are at least 10 contenders for senior GP spots next year -- who will get 2 spots and who might end up with one spot or senior B's?

3. Can Yuna S. turn senior next year, or will she stay in juniors one more year? We know her potential and Japanese Junior Nationals show that she is getting back to her usual form, but in terms of ISU season's best, she is behind all of the above skaters except for Rin and also seems borderline for senior GP qualification.

4. Who will make the 4CC, Worlds and Junior Worlds teams? It is hard to imagine Worlds without Mao, but also difficult to leave out Wakaba or Mai given their GP performances. Could there even be 2 separate teams for 4CC and Worlds, e.g. Satoko, Mai / Wakaba & Mao for Worlds, and Mai / Wakaba (whichever of the 2 was not on the Worlds team), Kaori, and Rika Hongo for 4CC? And then Marin, Rika Kihira and Yuna S could be sent to Junior Worlds to give Yuna another chance to clock a season's best that can get her a guaranteed GP spot.

At this point, would Kanako Murakami be out of the GP equation?

 

[ioanna]

We've commented on the various dramas in the Russian ladies field -- but how about the Japanese ladies?.

1. Kaori Sakamoto has beaten Marin Honda directly in JGP Yokohama and Japan Junior Nationals. She is also ahead of Marin on season's best scores and JGP standings. Is that enough for her to overtake Marin as the top Japanese junior? Since both are likely to turn senior next year, could this also affect their senior GP assignments?

There's still JGPF, Sr Nationals and Jr Worlds where Marin can turn things around if she wants to. And even if she doesn't, I expect Marin to get two GP assignments next season, one of them being NHK Trophy.

2. After a clear top 3 performers in GP (Satoko, Wakaba and Mai), we have Mao, Rika Hongo and Yura Matsuda who are all pretty close and with Marin, Kaori, Yuna Shiraiwa and Rin Nitaya in the mix, it looks like there are at least 10 contenders for senior GP spots next year -- who will get 2 spots and who might end up with one spot or senior B's?

I think Rika Hongo and Yura Matsuda are likely to be replaced by Marin Honda and Kaori Sakamoto.

3. Can Yuna S. turn senior next year, or will she stay in juniors one more year? We know her potential and Japanese Junior Nationals show that she is getting back to her usual form, but in terms of ISU season's best, she is behind all of the above skaters except for Rin and also seems borderline for senior GP qualification.

I haven't heard anything about her plans for next season but if she continues to do well this season she will probably get at least one GP assignment.

4. Who will make the 4CC, Worlds and Junior Worlds teams? It is hard to imagine Worlds without Mao, but also difficult to leave out Wakaba or Mai given their GP performances. Could there even be 2 separate teams for 4CC and Worlds, e.g. Satoko, Mai / Wakaba & Mao for Worlds, and Mai / Wakaba (whichever of the 2 was not on the Worlds team), Kaori, and Rika Hongo for 4CC? And then Marin, Rika Kihira and Yuna S could be sent to Junior Worlds to give Yuna another chance to clock a season's best that can get her a guaranteed GP spot.

Since 4CC will take place in the Olympic venue, I think the skaters who will be assigned to Worlds will also go to 4CC. Either that, or the skaters JSF is considering good enough to have a shot at being on the Olympic team.

 

[malo42]

I feel like YunaS will go senior next season. Maybe it'll depend on how she places at Jr Worlds this season, if she doesn't do well maybe she'll stay junior. The goal is the Olympics... I mean basically giving up the chance to go senior will be giving up the chance to be on the Olympic team.

Ahh I like the idea of discussion but it's just all too far out now. I feel like we'll have a better picture of things after senior nationals and we've seen all the ladies at this point compete against each other. At this point to me Yuka would certainly be out of the GP next season, Yura and Kanako (I forgot about her!) could be iffy and Rin probably won't get one. My guess is that the same team will be sent to worlds and 4CCs, 4CCs is so close by and it's an opportunity to skate at the site of the future Olympics.

I wanted to mention that I've said several times that RikaK won't be assigned Jr worlds because of her poor placement at junior nationals, I won't lie, when I saw the seasons best scores up there I second guessed myself for sure! But I still don't believe RikaK will be sent to jr worlds.

 

[mcq]

We've commented on the various dramas in the Russian ladies field -- but how about the Japanese ladies?

1. Marin is unpredictable. Last season she lost to Yuna S and Wakaba in National competitions but won over them in both JGPF (Wakaba didn't make JGPF even) and Worlds. I think the international judge really like her (she scored the then world record junior FS score with a pop on the 2A), much more than Kaori, but I have this feeling that national judge is just lukewarm to her and won't give her the score if she didn't deliver. So, depends on how she, Kaori and Yuna will do at junior worlds and the 2 at JGPF.

2. Need to wait for worlds, junior worlds and 4CC to even speculate about spots. Pretty sure Satoko Wakaba Mai will get 2 and I think Mao too. I don't think Rin will get 2. Marin and Kaori will likely at least get 1 + maybe a host spot at NHK.

3. I'm not sure. She usually do well nationally but international judge is not so warm to her. Need to skate lights out at junior worlds or Nats.

4. 4CC is an olympic test event, I bet everyone would want to go there. Whoever go to worlds will probably want to go to 4CC too. Kaori still need to go to a senior event to qualify for Worlds so no I think she won't go. I am not counting Mao out now since she seems to be dealing with injury, but frankly, Nationals is her last shot this season and if she doesn't do well there and is not sent to worlds/4CC, I don't know how it will affect her internationally next season.

 

[tinnychan]

I think Rika Hongo and Yura Matsuda are likely to be replaced by Marin Honda and Kaori Sakamoto.

At this point, Hongo have enough world standings point to help her to get 2 assignments. Matsuda might be good enough to get one. Murakami and Nagai do not get high enough SB (175+) and no standings point from the GP assignment will likely to be placed.

Shiraiwa might turn senior if she get the enough season best score.

 

[Niv]

To put it simply in Yamato Tamura's words, she slacks off. She gets bored easily. Team Hamada has plenty of examples of girls who listen to their instructions and know how to fight. Look at Yuna Shiraiwa winning the free skate here. If everyone else is confident by following Hamada's instructions, why would Marin be any different?

Hamada’s magic touch getting results, attention
by Jack Gallagher, Dec 6, 2016

I asked Hamada, who once placed 10th at the Japan nationals during her skating days, what she considered the most important trait in bringing up young skaters.
“First is discipline,” she commented. “This is an individual sport. So many skaters are selfish. They can skip the session if they don’t want to skate. If it is a team sport — like with a goalkeeper — if he doesn’t want to be there, he can’t do that.”
Hamada, a graduate of Kyoto’s Doshisha University, said that she tries to get her charges to conform and put aside any self-centered feelings.
“Individuality (makes it) very difficult to go against their nature,” she stated. “I try to get them not to do this. I’m very strict. They have to hear the opinion, the goals.”
Hamada then cited something that is an issue not just in skating, but in all youth sports.
“Controlling the parents is also very important,” she said with a smile. “I’m reasonable, but it’s my way. My purpose is to make a good athlete. Not to hurry and just have fun.”
While some coaches deal with only elite students, Hamada’s love of coaching sees her instructing a much broader age range of skaters.
“Currently my youngest skater is 4 years old,” she noted. “My oldest skater is 23.”
When it comes to setting achievement targets for the season, Hamada is more flexible.
“I let the individuals decide,” she said. “Because Marin is kind of easygoing. I don’t want to push her too much because she is a very artistic skater. I just bring up her feelings.
“Yuna is very athletic. She likes to jump,” Hamada stated. “I try to find out what is the good point for each of them. I do each in a different way.”
Ice Time asked Hamada straight up which one of her group of more than 30 skaters was the most naturally talented.

“Marin,” Hamada replied without hesitation.

That's why.

 

[Niv]

...and this doesn't hurt as well.

 

[Skater Boy]

With or without a healthy or more successful Mao the Japanese team is very strong and has promising young skaters. Miyahara is very consistent. There is so much huge potential with Higuchi, Marin and the list goes on. Look at the JGPs and you can see even more hope and promise. They physically tend to be suited for skating and most have a good lyrical and musical sense. That is not to say the Russians and Americans won't be there to give them heck but there is depth on the japanese team.

 

[ioanna]

Hamada’s magic touch getting results, attention
by Jack Gallagher, Dec 6, 2016

That's why.

So because she's naturally talented she's allowed to get special treatment? Ok. I can tell Marin fans take the slightest criticism personally so there's no point discussing.

 

[kalee]

Doing the Grand Prix qualification math on Japanese ladies also...
Likely to qualify as seeded / invited skaters (top 10 in Worlds, guaranteed 2 spots): Satoko seems to be the only certain one
Qualifying through top 24 world standings (guaranteed at least 1 spot): Rika H., Kanako, Wakaba, Mao
Qualifying through top 24 season's best (guaranteed at least 1 spot): Mai, Kaori

Even after removing the 3 non-age-eligible skaters from the season's best list (namely Nastya G., Rika K., and Liza N.) Marin still narrowly misses the cut at #28 unless she clocks a season's best in JW (am assuming that she is nearly a lock for JW at this point) -- she is #35 in world standings so unlikely to get much help from there.

This year Japan has 16 spots with 8 skaters, which could well replicate itself next year. It would be sad for Yuna S. to miss the boat on senior GP though and she is still not quite close enough yet both in terms of world standings (#43 with Yuka Nagai ahead of her @ #32) and season's best (#40 with Yura Matsuda ahead of her at #37). Really hoping she can pull herself up enough in the FS at Nats to clinch the JW spot and pull herself in through that!