Alexandra Paul and Mitchell Islam Retire

[4everchan]

Not surprised but now have to wonder what happens to CAN Dance after next year. Cause I can see all 3 of our top teams retiring after the Olympics unless G/P stay on for 1 more year just for a CAN title and maybe a world medal depending on who else retires.

 

[olayolay]

I hope G/P get their due. They kind of annoy me as people, but you can't deny how much they've improved in the last couple of years. They consistently have the most interesting, thoughtfully constructed programs out there. They deserve it.

 

[blue_idealist]

I think that for 2 ambitious young people it was a wise decision. You have no reason to sacrifice your time, money and future in a field where you are proven to be stagnating since several years.

Yeah, and they did get to go to one Olympics, so they'll always have that.

 

[tulosai]

Aw, this is a bummer. I both understand and am not surprised by the decision, but I will miss their skating all the same.

 

[rosy14]

Sorry to hear that, but I knew this is coming after they abruptly withdrew right before their time to perform for short dance at Cup of China and there was no following explanation for their withdrawal. Wish them all the best for their future.

Actually they said Paul got injured just before the competition start.

 

[rosy14]

When they left Krylova/Camerlengo to go to Montreal, I thought it was not a wise move, because they were going in a too crowded a field. Staying with K/C they'd able to get more attention, instead of being the third or fourth couple to pay attention to.
And the results proved my thought was sounded.

 

[Spiral]

I think Tessa and Scott's return played a huge part in why so many teams like Paul & Islam, Orford & Hill, and Paradis & Ouellette retired this year. There's a clear hierarchy established that will be virtually impossible to break with V&M, WeaPo, and Goirier occupying the podium. I think Goirier's scores at the Canada Challenge was the nail in the coffin for P&I because WeaPo might actually fall to 3rd at Nationals... and there's no way SC would ever dump Kaitlyn & Andrew below that.

It's not shocking that these two retired prior to Nationals; training to go and to collect a 4th place finish doesn't seem all that great and skating is extremely expensive.

I also feel that way. I think it's quite rare for skaters to retire just before the Olympic season. Perhaps, if they had a chance of medaling at Nationals either this or next year, they would have stayed and tried to make the best of that chance.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Without knowing more behind-the-scenes information, I think Paul/Islam and Orford/Hill would have stayed in had Virtue/Moir not come back, especially with the way Worlds ended up for Paradis/Ouellette. I think P/O not qualifying for the FD at Worlds would have made P/I feel like they were still in the running for that third Worlds spot and thus the third Olympic spot (if Canada had 3 spots which would have been likely). I also think Orford/Hill could have made a healthy run of it too if they had material that got the international judges excited early in the season. I actually think it would have been a very fun 3-way battle for that final ice dance spot if P/O decided to not break up/retire and wanted to redeem themselves this season.

That is not to say V/M shouldn't have come back. Athletes should come back any time they want to and if you want to be the best you should beat the best. Plus, V/M are obviously skating really well, won that elusive GPF title, and are totally giving ice dance fans something to enjoy. It's just a little sad that three of the top five teams at Canadian Nationals last season have decided to retire/split up. Even worse, I read that 11 out of the 14 teams that competed at Nationals last year have all retired/split up.

 

[4everchan]

I'd like to remind everyone that vm didn't come back from retirement. They were not officially retired. They were exploring their options. It was always clear that they were to be part of the ice dance scene. If anything, it gave those mid tier teams a chance to compete, and weapo and piper and Paul a chance to make their mark in the last two years. If vm hadn't taken a break, I'm not sure how much of these recently retired teams we would have even gotten to know. If anything, their absence allowed other teams nationally an internationally to shine. Not sure PC would have won a wc nor the Italians if vm had just stuck around. Just mentioning this as I've read here and there, now and then, how their comeback has affected the world of ice dance. Actually, I think their break gave a lot of team unexpected and glorious opportunities.

 

[apgold]

Sorry to hear this. Was lucky enough to see them at their last full competition at Skate Canada.

 

[bwayrose7]

I'd like to remind everyone that vm didn't come back from retirement. They were not officially retired. They were exploring their options. It was always clear that they were to be part of the ice dance scene. If anything, it gave those mid tier teams a chance to compete, and weapo and piper and Paul a chance to make their mark in the last two years. If vm hadn't taken a break, I'm not sure how much of these recently retired teams we would have even gotten to know. If anything, their absence allowed other teams nationally an internationally to shine. Not sure PC would have won a wc nor the Italians if vm had just stuck around. Just mentioning this as I've read here and there, now and then, how their comeback has affected the world of ice dance. Actually, I think their break gave a lot of team unexpected and glorious opportunities.

With all due respect, @4everchan, I feel like your point is a matter of semantics. No one is saying VM literally retired and then came back, but the fact remains they were gone and the assumption was, based on how much they already achieved and perhaps their ages, that they would not come back. Especially given that their main counterparts from the last quad, Davis/White and Pechalat/Bourzat, chose not to return. Thus, other teams felt they had more opportunities. With their return, one spot is automatically taken up, and combining that with two other very strong dance teams, no other teams will get a look in until VM and WP retire.

As you say yourself, other teams got to shine while they were gone, and I think many fans are disappointed that their window of opportunity closed before they got to go very far. As much as I like VM, I can see how disappointing it must be to the mid-level teams how the chances they thought they'd have vanished. Instead of two locks and a real battle for a third spot, there is no chance for any team other than the current top 3 to get into a top international.

 

[rain]

With all due respect, @4everchan, I feel like your point is a matter of semantics. No one is saying VM literally retired and then came back, but the fact remains they were gone and the assumption was, based on how much they already achieved and perhaps their ages, that they would not come back. Especially given that their main counterparts from the last quad, Davis/White and Pechalat/Bourzat, chose not to return. Thus, other teams felt they had more opportunities. With their return, one spot is automatically taken up, and combining that with two other very strong dance teams, no other teams will get a look in until VM and WP retire.

As you say yourself, other teams got to shine while they were gone, and I think many fans are disappointed that their window of opportunity closed before they got to go very far. As much as I like VM, I can see how disappointing it must be to the mid-level teams how the chances they thought they'd have vanished. Instead of two locks and a real battle for a third spot, there is no chance for any team other than the current top 3 to get into a top international.

I don't know why anyone would have just assumed they were not returning, especially those in the ice dance field. I never got the feeling their time off was permanent, and wasn't at all surprised by their return, and I'm just a fan. So no, I don't think it's just semantics.

I do understand why some may have been disappointed that a top couple came back and made the national field more crowded. But if they really aspired to go anywhere in dance they were going to have the face the best in competition, no matter who that was.

 

[ice coverage]

... No one is saying VM literally retired and then came back, but the fact remains they were gone and the assumption was, based on how much they already achieved and perhaps their ages, that they would not come back. Especially given that their main counterparts from the last quad, Davis/White and Pechalat/Bourzat, chose not to return. ...

It is not V/M's fault if others made the mistake of assuming that V/M never would come back after Sochi.
V/M always were careful to keep the door open to coming back. Any ice dancers who assumed it would never happen led themselves astray on that point.

Seems that you are unaware that Davis/White have not officially retired.
They have repeated over and over that that they are keeping the door open to a return for 2017-2018.

---

My best to Paul/Islam .

 

[4everchan]

It is not V/M's fault if others made the mistake of assuming that V/M never would come back after Sochi.
V/M always were careful to keep the door open to coming back. Any ice dancers who assumed it would never happen led themselves astray on that point.

Seems that you are unaware that Davis/White have not officially retired.
They have repeated over and over that that they are keeping the door open to a return for 2017-2018.

---

My best to Paul/Islam .

i wonder if D/W came back just in time for olympics if they'd portrayed as evil spot takers?

bwayrose7

when you say no one has said ill things about vm.. that's not true... it's been almost a year now that they have announced they were coming back... and already people accused their return for Weapo's less exciting results... as if "judges already dropped them because vm will be back".... i have read it all on this forum and elsewhere... so it's not true that it's just semantics... Weapo's mistakes cost them points... that's all... (and I LOVE them... )

I am a fan of Ice dance... a polygamous fan if I may say... which means that I love most teams, and long for great skating and dancing.... actually the number of teams i really like surpass the number of teams i don't like... which is maybe 2 or 3 in the current top 20 in the world...

So... in light of this, I agree with rain.

If a Canadian team cannot make it to the podium at Nationals, or beat GP or Weapo, it simply means that they cannot compete internationally to the highest level... VM returning doesn't change that. The proof being that last year, P/I didn't make the WC team, and the #3 team in Canada didn't make the free dance... at WC... one has to be able to make their own way to the top... look at G/P... after a disastrous 2014... they have worked very hard to remain close to Weapo... and now, they may even surpass them ...

that's what some other teams felt they couldn't achieve... and if some team are okay competing nationally for a while, at one point, they probably expect more.

I have said it before, I feel sad I won't see P/I at Nationals. I have never seen them skate. They were such a beautiful team on the ice but, if fans like us adore them, the COP didn't... and they were never ranking very high internationally, either making mistakes, losing levels, or just not shining enough... Injuries, illness... etc... it takes a toll on a team and I admire them for making this bold move of acknowledging that it is time to move on and get on with other passions they have in life.

People tend to forget that human beings are multidimensional. we only know these skaters as skaters... but many have other things they want to do in life... career, family life, etc etc...

Thanks for a great career and good luck P/I

 

[bwayrose7]

People tend to forget that human beings are multidimensional. we only know these skaters as skaters... but many have other things they want to do in life... career, family life, etc etc...

Thanks for a great career and good luck P/I

On this, at least, we can agree I hope Alex and Mitch are content with their decision, that they know how much joy their skating brought to so many people, and that their futures will be successful and happy!

 

[chuckm]

Open door or not, don't see D/W returning, except perhaps as Olympic commentators.

 

[nevergonnadance]

I don't see VM's presumed retirement as semantics. They very obviously kept the door open, with Scott saying the only way they'd return would be to become Olympic champions. More obviously, their show skating was extremely sharp and they remained in tremendous physical condition - another indicator.

I don't see VM as the reason these teams are retiring. Paul Islam had persistent injuries, and had to deal with Skate Canada's clear preference for Gilles Poirier. Indeed, all the up and coming teams had to deal with Skate Canada's clear preference for Gilles Poirier. More than Virtue and Moir's return, I believe it's SC's obsession with Gilles Poirier that remains the biggest deterrent to up and coming teams. Heck, I think Weaver Poje will be fortunate to keep the silver medal at Canadians.

There's also the training center political scene, with Paul Islam, IMO, recognizing that their training base was out of favor and looking to at least clear that bias from the table. And finally, for whatever reason, when this lyrical stuff came into favor, the fact that Paul Islam had a very soft, detailed, connected style of skating didn't seem to help them. I think they never connected with a choreographer that could both work with what they did well while making their skating sharper and more powerful. The closest they ever came were their 2014 programs, both of which were absolutely gorgeous. Who choreographed those, and why didn't they develop what they'd built with those programs?

 

[4everchan]

^^ any federation would be silly not to encourage Piper and Paul... they are wonderful skaters and are always very well trained. Not liking their style is one thing but not recognizing how far they have come over the years is something else...

 

[rain]

when you say no one has said ill things about vm.. that's not true... it's been almost a year now that they have announced they were coming back... and already people accused their return for Weapo's less exciting results... as if "judges already dropped them because vm will be back".... i have read it all on this forum and elsewhere... so it's not true that it's just semantics... Weapo's mistakes cost them points... that's all... (and I LOVE them... )

I am a fan of Ice dance... a polygamous fan if I may say... which means that I love most teams, and long for great skating and dancing.... actually the number of teams i really like surpass the number of teams i don't like... which is maybe 2 or 3 in the current top 20 in the world...

So... in light of this, I agree with rain.

If a Canadian team cannot make it to the podium at Nationals, or beat GP or Weapo, it simply means that they cannot compete internationally to the highest level... VM returning doesn't change that. The proof being that last year, P/I didn't make the WC team, and the #3 team in Canada didn't make the free dance... at WC... one has to be able to make their own way to the top... look at G/P... after a disastrous 2014... they have worked very hard to remain close to Weapo... and now, they may even surpass them ...

that's what some other teams felt they couldn't achieve...

Any federation would want to have three teams to send to worlds who can feasibly make the top 10, rather than two teams who will make the top 10 and one that has the possibility of not making the free dance. Right now, in Canada, those top three teams (per the international judging results, not just the Canadian federation or nationals judges) are V/M, W/P and G/P. I think it's telling that none of the other Canadian teams stepped up on the international stage while V/M were taking a break — they certainly had the chance. Ice dance has been tumultuous the last few years with plenty of jockeying for position and those positions changing year to year.

I have to disagree with you a little in that I do think it makes a difference if you are considered the No. 1 team within your federation. It shouldn't, but it often does. So in that sense V/M's return has made it harder for W/P, but even that is only because V/M look so darn good and have earned that No. 1 Canadian spot.

Now, if W/P were skating their sublime Four Seasons free skate this year, I'd have a really, really hard time picking a favourite, as that is one of my all-time favourite ice dance programs from anyone.

 

[rosy14]

I'd like to remind everyone that vm didn't come back from retirement. They were not officially retired. They were exploring their options. It was always clear that they were to be part of the ice dance scene. If anything, it gave those mid tier teams a chance to compete, and weapo and piper and Paul a chance to make their mark in the last two years. If vm hadn't taken a break, I'm not sure how much of these recently retired teams we would have even gotten to know. If anything, their absence allowed other teams nationally an internationally to shine. Not sure PC would have won a wc nor the Italians if vm had just stuck around. Just mentioning this as I've read here and there, now
and then, how their comeback has affected the world of ice dance. Actually, I think their break gave a lot of team unexpected and glorious opportunities.

Surely if V/M had competed in Saitama , they'd won fair and square. Evryone knows that- Anna and Luca too.
And the same is true for Worlds 2015 and 2016, provided they kept skating as in Sochi and now. So really their absence made other shine (perhaps even too much for they are worth). And V/M's performance at NHK and in Marseille made fans get in love again with the discipline.