Yuzuru Hanyu: 2016-17 Season

[Meoima]

Lovely, how mad does one have to be to truly believe it's the magical stay in Japan which suddenly 'corrected' Yuzu's 4S in the autumn of 2014.
Never mind that Yuzu had his start of the season derailed by his accident so his two first events just can't be considered. Or never mind he was training with a detailed schedule emailed by Brian during those two weeks before the GPF. It's all Japan and its air.
Pathetic. Thank goodness 4Lo seems to be credited to CC at least.

No, they can always say his 4Lo was trained in Japan lol.
Having said that, I don't think Cricket Club is the magic land for fixing jump technique. If you look at Nam Nguyen... well... and if you look at Javi's lutz and flip, and his 3A take off... in slow motion of course.
I have to say skaters train well at CC do improve but the pure technique isn't taught at that place. It has a lot to do with the first coach and Yuzuru was lucky that his first coaches taught him good technique. All other skaters at CC don't have pure technique like Yuzuru.
I also have the feeling that Yuzuru has very good sense of what is good technique and he tries very hard to focus on that.

 

[Fayruza]

No, they can always say his 4Lo was trained in Japan lol.
Having said that, I don't think Cricket Club is the magic land for fixing jump technique. If you look at Nam Nguyen... well... and if you look at Javi's lutz and flip, and his 3A take off... in slow motion of course.
I have to say skaters train well at CC do improve but the pure technique isn't taught at that place. It has a lot to do with the first coach and Yuzuru was lucky that his first coaches taught him good technique. All other skaters at CC don't have pure technique like Yuzuru.
I also have the feeling that Yuzuru has very good sense of what is good technique and he tries very hard to focus on that.

So it's being in Japan that makes everyone jump quads with joy? I wonder why so few present-day Japanese skaters are affected by this magic... Not susceptible to it, I guess. Or the magical power only exists around Sendai.
We'd have to see how youngsters are doing there - Jun seems to be improving, Gogolev, anyone? Retraining a jump technique is hard work and not everyone might be up to it. Many just choose to stay with what they have, I guess - as long as it works for them and they get away with their iffy technique.

 

[Meoima]

So it's being in Japan that makes everyone jump quads with joy? I wonder why so few present-day Japanese skaters are affected by this magic... Not susceptible to it, I guess. Or the magical power only exists around Sendai.
We'd have to see how youngsters are doing there - Jun seems to be improving, Gogolev, anyone? Retraining a jump technique is hard work and not everyone might be up to it. Many just choose to stay with what they have, I guess - as long as it works for them and they get away with their iffy technique.

Cha's 3A make me cry. Gogolev has huge pre-rotation in the toe jumps especially the toe loop in combo. I mean I can understand why they do that because they're young and it takes time to fix. But what if those technique last for too long and then it's too late to fix when they're older? Again, I don't think CC is a magic land for pure technique. They can only help you improve somewhat overall like what happened to Javi.
But yes, I agree that many skaters just choose to stay with what they have. So in the end, it depends a lot on how skaters see their technique themselves. If they think they can fix and it is worthy to fix, then they will try to fix it.
I am not a big fan of Zhenia's jump technique. But she has improved a lot of her major issue. I am not sure it's because Eteri has good coaching style or because the girl herself is aware of that. Maybe both.

 

[Fayruza]

Cha's 3A make me cry. Gogolev has huge pre-rotation in the toe jumps especially the toe loop in combo. I mean I can understand why they do that because they're young and it takes time to fix. But what if those technique last for too long and then it's too late to fix when they're older? Again, I don't think CC is a magic land for pure technique. They can only help you improve somewhat overall like what happened to Javi.
But yes, I agree that many skaters just choose to stay with what they have. So in the end, it depends a lot on how skaters see their technique themselves. If they think they can fix and it is worthy to fix, then they will try to fix it.
I am not a big fan of Zhenia's jump technique. But she has improved a lot of her major issue. I am not sure it's because Eteri has good coaching style or because the girl herself is aware of that. Maybe both.

She still flutzes though... but her jumps are getting better. Taking a leaf or two out of Yuzu's book, perhaps - you can always get better if you turn your mind to it.

 

[HanDomi]

Actually Hanyu has learned quad loop on his own during ice shows. Orser team started then to help him improve technique on it. There is no question that Hanyu quad sal credit heavily goes to Orser. If you will look at other Orser skaters quad sal technique you will see he uses for all of them similar technique preparation. Hanyu was not doing it this way before Orser

 

[Meoima]

She still flutzes though... but her jumps are getting better. Taking a leaf or two out of Yuzu's book, perhaps - you can always get better if you turn your mind to it.

It has become more flat now. So certainly Eteri knows what she is doing. The issue with Evegnia is that we don't know if her body will stay that way. And if her body changes, will her jumps stay the same, or not? It is very hard. Next season might be crucial to her.

Back to Yuzuru, it is funny but it seems the majority of coaches and specialists think that Yuzuru's body is built for the quads and that he will be ok. When I showed the specialist Yuzuru's 4S1lo4S attempt and I said: "it's crazy, he might get injured badly."
And she said something like: "Don't worry. At this level they rely a lot on their instinct to protect their bodies. And his body is built for that. He will be ok."

Kurt Browning or someone else did say something about Yuzuru's body and jump technique might be a key for his longevity in this sport, if I remember correctly? Somewhere in a video I don't remember.

 

[seimei]

Actually..there is no reason to bash other skaters in this thread. I also think shoma is very promising skater and maybe near future olympic and world medalist. can't sure about the scores and not my cup of tea skating but I think he deserved 1st national title and I got why he get some affections. And I understand some JSF's standing, too. They need stars and rivaly to keep and promote figure skating in Japan in aspect of stat quality and international competitiveness. That's the way they keep their world. yuzu is also the one of these progress , too.
Winning and losing is always random, even the way of winning or losing, esp under these high risk high reputation surroundings. As a fan of 2quad short and 4 quad free skater, I always prepare for any result. I sometimes feel afraid fan's or media's frusrtration than losing or poor performace itself when he lose...
I remember some disgraceful posts in this thread when yuzu win his first national title. even at his fan thread, sigh. I know this issue is way far from that, but I believe that If you want respect, you respect first. Next year's gpf will be held at Nagoya and the rivaly &JN pressure wil get bigger and bigger.. and there are so many other contenters with crazy quads. lol
so I I hope JSF and media will not give them too much pressure. Personally I think yuzu's peak timing has been influenced by strong national field or JSF focus. When he's young, he had fight for no.3world ticket with big 3.

And those crazy antis are really disgusting.. even in Korea, the fs trolls actively spread rumor and trash gifs made by jnet antis.. yeah this is off topic, but really shame.. I really hope these people get more interests about their precious things than hate..

anyway as other poster said, this holiday is quite peaceful for me haha. hope yuzu rest well and wait for good news!

 

[Meoima]

Actually Hanyu has learned quad loop on his own during ice shows. Orser team started then to help him improve technique on it. There is no question that Hanyu quad sal credit heavily goes to Orser. If you will look at other Orser skaters quad sal technique you will see he uses for all of them similar technique preparation. Hanyu was not doing it this way before Orser

Yuzuru's Loop has always been his most reliable jump, so no wonder he can get it on his way. Javi's 3loop is very good too. But quad loop is... a monster. It is so much harder to get full rotation for it in competition.

 

[Fayruza]

Yuzuru's Loop has always been his most reliable jump, so no wonder he can get it on his way. Javi's 3loop is very good too. But quad loop is... a monster. It is so much harder to get full rotation for it in competition.

well, that's why we only have one skater so far who's successfully landed that jump.
4Lz seems almost mundane by now!

 

[Sydney Rose]

I respectfully disagree about Yuzu’s 4S . After two years of falls and struggles Yuzu finally fixed his 4S technique after 2014 COC accident , during one of the toughest moment of his careere , more precisely after 2014 NHK. He was badly injured and he was training in Japan, Yuzu came back directly from hell to win Barcelona GPF , that Phantom FS was more than amazing!

But who was his coach then? Did he have a Japanese coach in addition to training at TCC?

I'm honestly baffled at your belief that training in Japan would produce better results for Yuzu than training in Toronto. My main criticism of his training is that he spends too much time away from Brian, not too much time with him. I'm just not buying that Yuzu is so "independent" that he can train via email for long periods of time; I believe he needs to be doing all those difficult jumps with his coaches scrutinizing his every move. And if that means having to do fewer ice shows/promotions/whatever, then that's what he needs to do if he wants more World gold medals and another OGM. I hope he and his mother return to Toronto as soon as he recovers from the flu.

 

[Meoima]

But who was his coach then? Did he have a Japanese coach in addition to training at TCC?

I'm honestly baffled at your belief that training in Japan would produce better results for Yuzu than training in Toronto. My main criticism of his training is that he spends too much time away from Brian, not too much time with him. I'm just not buying that Yuzu is so "independent" that he can train via email for long periods of time; I believe he needs to be doing all those difficult jumps with his coaches scrutinizing his every move. And if that means having to do fewer ice shows/promotions/whatever, then that's what he needs to do if he wants more World gold medals and another OGM. I hope he and his mother return to Toronto as soon as he recovers from the flu.

Yeah, even with crazy work ethnic, he still needs his coach beside. My friend at Autumn Classic and GPF practice said that, Yuzuru asked for Brian's advices a lot. Whenever he had issue, he came to Brian and discussed for like 5 minutes and came back. It's so good that his English has become much better now he can comunicate with his coaches easier than before.

 

[mcq]

It has become more flat now. So certainly Eteri knows what she is doing. The issue with Evegnia is that we don't know if her body will stay that way. And if her body changes, will her jumps stay the same, or not? It is very hard. Next season might be crucial to her.

Back to Yuzuru, it is funny but it seems the majority of coaches and specialists think that Yuzuru's body is built for the quads and that he will be ok. When I showed the specialist Yuzuru's 4S1lo4S attempt and I said: "it's crazy, he might get injured badly."
And she said something like: "Don't worry. At this level they rely a lot on their instinct to protect their bodies. And his body is built for that. He will be ok."

Kurt Browning or someone else did say something about Yuzuru's body and jump technique might be a key for his longevity in this sport, if I remember correctly? Somewhere in a video I don't remember.

Kurt said it recently on his GPF or NHK FS CBC commentary I think, don't remember which one. I don't know about his body, but I think his landing does seem to be the least strenuous to the ankle, knee and hip compared to other men's landings.
I think ladies skating has been quite the same content-wise since 20-30 years ago. I would be surprised if someone did not find a method yet to make the ladies more consistently land their 3-3s and triples (like Eteri did). While men are in uncharted waters now. Quad lutz, flip and loop are not done successfully by many past skaters and coaches, so I think they are still trying to find the best method and technique to do it? I read that technique that may work on doubles don't always work on triples. Maybe it is the case for quads too? If you see how skaters land quads in the past, it does seem to be very very hard on the body. But I don't feel that way when I see Yuzuru's land his?

 

[Alchamei]

Honestly, I feel like the only person here who loves both Yuzuru and Shoma to death. Sigh. Screw the rivalries.

 

[Fayruza]

But who was his coach then? Did he have a Japanese coach in addition to training at TCC?

I'm honestly baffled at your belief that training in Japan would produce better results for Yuzu than training in Toronto. My main criticism of his training is that he spends too much time away from Brian, not too much time with him. I'm just not buying that Yuzu is so "independent" that he can train via email for long periods of time; I believe he needs to be doing all those difficult jumps with his coaches scrutinizing his every move. And if that means having to do fewer ice shows/promotions/whatever, then that's what he needs to do if he wants more World gold medals and another OGM. I hope he and his mother return to Toronto as soon as he recovers from the flu.

Er... I suggest you read some 500 first pages of the thread to see that she thinks that Brian is no good for Yuzu, he's only doing him harm, and that it was a JSF conspiracy that made Yuzu move to Toronto. Nothing has changed since then - whenever there's a chance, she'll bash Brian, sing praises to Japan and Nanami and ignore facts. Over four years of the same rubbish copiously poured out whenever she sees a chance - and she gets those chances out of thin air.

 

[Fayruza]

Honestly, I feel like the only person here who loves both Yuzuru and Shoma to death. Sigh. Screw the rivalries.

My rule is 'respect all skaters' Shoma was under enormous pressure, didn't skate his best, but that was enough to win. Congratulations to him! But Team Japan need both Yuzu and Shoma to win those 3 spots for next year.

 

[Meoima]

Kurt said it recently on his GPF or NHK FS CBC commentary I think, don't remember which one. I don't know about his body, but I think his landing does seem to be the least strenuous to the ankle, knee and hip compared to other men's landings.
I think ladies skating has been quite the same content-wise since 20-30 years ago. I would be surprised if someone did not find a method yet to make the ladies more consistently land their 3-3s and triples (like Eteri did). While men are in uncharted waters now. Quad lutz, flip and loop are not done successfully by many past skaters and coaches, so I think they are still trying to find the best method and technique to do it? I read that technique that may work on doubles don't always work on triples. Maybe it is the case for quads too? If you see how skaters land quads in the past, it does seem to be very very hard on the body. But I don't feel that way when I see Yuzuru's land his?

I have heard too many comments that Yuzuru's body "is built for these quads" but I am not sure if that is the case. Boyang also has quads but his quad landings make me feel scared (but he does have good landings now and then). Nathan's quad landings also scare me too.
I remember reading some article comparing Yuzuru and Plushy's body and it said Yuzuru's body might last better than Plushenko when it comes to quads. But we all know Plushenko even with his amazing longevity, he has had quite many rest and withdrawal. Yuzuru, on the other hand, has competed non-stop for so long. :sad21: I am not sure he can have longevity with such schedule. To think of the vicious circle NHK-GPF-National that lasted for 2 seasons, no wonder he was injured so badly. I am glad he has a rest this time. So his body has a rest and he does not have to suffer the crazy circle.

Maybe next season they can let him NOT go to NHK??

 

[Fayruza]

I have heard too many comments that Yuzuru's body "is built for these quads" but I am not sure if that is the case. Boyang also has quads but his quad landings make me feel scared (but he does have good landings now and then). Nathan's quad landings also scare me too.
I remember reading some article comparing Yuzuru and Plushy's body and it said Yuzuru's body might last better than Plushenko when it comes to quads. But we all know Plushenko even with his amazing longevity, he has had quite many rest and withdrawal. Yuzuru, on the other hand, has competed non-stop for so long. :sad21: I am not sure he can have longevity with such schedule. To think of the vicious circle NHK-GPF-National that lasted for 2 seasons, no wonder he was injured so badly. I am glad he has a rest this time. So his body has a rest and he does not have to suffer the crazy circle.

Maybe next season they can let him NOT go to NHK??

Fat chance. He's still their greatest seller... But NHK isn't going to be the last event, is it?

 

[mcq]

I have heard too many comments that Yuzuru's body "is built for these quads" but I am not sure if that is the case. Boyang also has quads but his quad landings make me feel scared (but he does have good landings now and then). Nathan's quad landings also scare me too.
I remember reading some article comparing Yuzuru and Plushy's body and it said Yuzuru's body might last better than Plushenko when it comes to quads. But we all know Plushenko even with his amazing longevity, he has had quite many rest and withdrawal. Yuzuru, on the other hand, has competed non-stop for so long. :sad21: I am not sure he can have longevity with such schedule. To think of the vicious circle NHK-GPF-National that lasted for 2 seasons, no wonder he was injured so badly. I am glad he has a rest this time. So his body has a rest and he does not have to suffer the crazy circle.

Maybe next season they can let him NOT go to NHK??

Well, to be fair, Plushenko also did not do much competition post-2006. I think the current skaters likely have better technique that is just more friendly to the body than past skaters did. Javi and Patrick is quite "old" in FS standard, and they also land quite a number of quads, moreso compared to Plush. But they have been relatively injury-free. I think as long as Yuzu did not overtrain, he should be okay? Both Javi and Patrick is still relatively healthy and they'll be pushing 27 by 2018, and I personally think Yuzuru has better jumping technique than them? So, as long as he is careful I don't think a long career is a longshot.
About NHK, lol, I don't know, I think it is a slim chance. But who knows, I never thought they would not invite Mao but they skipped her this season. If he does not want to travel much he might lobby for SA and SC (lol god no) depending on world finish/podium, but really who knows

 

[Yatagarasu]

But we all know Plushenko even with his amazing longevity, he has had quite many rest and withdrawal. Yuzuru, on the other hand, has competed non-stop for so long. :

There's one difference there though, remember Plushy did a lot for the development of the sport, there was experimenting back then with Mishin. He didn't just muck about with the 4As but quints too. Yuzuru on the other hand isn't faced with such a fate, so that's a huge plus in terms of health. I am genuinely not surprised Plushy's as he is, there was much more wear and tear back then. With Yuzuru becoming much more health conscious I think he's going to be fine. I really do think he's got the ideal body for it plus the ideal head for it, with the way he thinks.

 

[Meoima]

There's one difference there though, remember Plushy did a lot for the development of the sport, there was experimenting back then with Mishin. He didn't just muck about with the 4As but quints too. Yuzuru on the other hand isn't faced with such a fate, so that's a huge plus in terms of health. I am genuinely not surprised Plushy's as he is, there was much more wear and tear back then. With Yuzuru becoming much more health conscious I think he's going to be fine. I really do think he's got the ideal body for it plus the ideal head for it, with the way he thinks.

We know current Yuzuru is practicing 4lz. So that makes 4 types of quads. It's a big deal for his body already. And then he says he wants to try 4A... I feel like I need a second heart for that. I wonder how much Brian has to deal with Yuzuru honestly. Poor that man lol.