2016-17 State of Russian Ice Dance

[gmyers]

To be honest, I'm worried about the future of Russian ice dance... having as next proclaimed leaders Bukins.
I mean it works for me if they stay as Russian no 2 or no 3, but as leaders, no way. Stepanova cannot skate and any world top team will win over them with all the push from the Russian Fed. I understood why they were promoted this year as the second Russian team (reliability, consistency), but I assume Russian Fed won't be so stupid to hope that Bukins are Olympic champions caliber.

When it comes for Russian teams to move to North America, I don't think that the Federation has the money nor the willingness to invest in such, at least up to 2018.

Who else but s/b exist? The next two teams are so inconsistent they can't produce anything. Junior teams that people want to have hope for aren't learning from people who support IJS which makes them less experienced s/b's. Russia can't expect anything anymore until their whole ice dance establishment stops hoping for abolition of IJS.

 

[madison]

It's obvious that ice dance isn't anymore top priority for Russia. They focus more on women and pairs.

When it comes to Russian coaches, I like the work of Gorshkov: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5jXmN39lKY&t=1s
and Rubleva https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj_bnLwydNo&t=25s ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uexftED42_U&t=2s, for example. Pretty interesting programs.
Also from Svinin/Zhuk I like the most Shevchenko/Eremenko: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eodTkyT-Ois. But Svinin and Zhuk usually have the tendency to complicate the programs, the lifts and everything unnecessary and also to use incoherent pieces of music.

 

[bwayrose7]

I don't like StepBukin's skating, but the resentment towards them is totally misplaced this season IMO. They're reliable in a time when Russian ice dance as a whole is struggling. Is there a political push for them, were their Nationals scores inflated? IMO, absolutely. But they skated well and earned their second place. I've got issues with their skating (mainly hers) that prevent me from enjoying them, but that doesn't mean I can't see what they do well.

I couldn't agree more. S/B are far from my favorites, and I'm never a fan of politicking, but their consistency is there and they have programs that at least attempt to highlight their strengths. I don't get why they seem to be a punching bag among fans. That said, I think I'd like them a lot more if they cleaned up the issues in their basic skating (as you say, Stepanova seems more flawed than Bukin), and if they sought out programs that highlighted their personalities on the ice. Right now, I have a hard time getting a feel for who they are, if that makes sense, and for me, that's one of the ways I tend to become fond of teams: when they have something that marks out who they are as skaters and as artists.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Realistically, B/S will be the top Russian team until the Olympics. I think they're gonna retire somewhere after 2018, so when they do so, S/B will, without a doubt, replace them as the number one Russian Ice Dance team. S/K and I/Z are a complete mess. I'm not gonna sugarcoat when I say that none of these two teams are going anywhere. It's the truth. Unless K/I are gonna reunite, I don't see S/B having major competition amongst the Russians in the future. With the way the scores have been so far this season, I think that's how it's gonna go. PS: That 0.17 point difference between S/K and I/Z at Russian Nats just proves that these two teams are gonna continue to flip-flop non stop.

 

[gmyers]

Realistically, B/S will be the top Russian team until the Olympics. I think they're gonna retire somewhere after 2018, so when they do so, S/B will, without a doubt, replace them as the number one Russian Ice Dance team. S/K and I/Z are a complete mess. I'm not gonna sugarcoat when I say that none of these two teams are going anywhere. It's the truth. Unless K/I are gonna reunite, I don't see S/B having major competition amongst the Russians in the future. With the way the scores have been so far this season, I think that's how it's gonna go. PS: That 0.17 point difference between S/K and I/Z at Russian Nats just proves that these two teams are gonna continue to flip-flop non stop.

I think you state everything very clearly and well. The reign of S/B is coming and while some will bring up junior teams as potential competitors it's kind of sad how almost all the Jr gpf and world medalist teams of the past five years have broken up or one has quit for injury. S/b is literally the only one still together! Whatever team is doing well this season I wouldn't bet on existing in the next year or two. You also bring up reunification and I agree only if I/k and s/z reunite could there be competion for s/b.

 

[bramweld]

Realistically, B/S will be the top Russian team until the Olympics. I think they're gonna retire somewhere after 2018, so when they do so, S/B will, without a doubt, replace them as the number one Russian Ice Dance team. S/K and I/Z are a complete mess. I'm not gonna sugarcoat when I say that none of these two teams are going anywhere. It's the truth. Unless K/I are gonna reunite, I don't see S/B having major competition amongst the Russians in the future. With the way the scores have been so far this season, I think that's how it's gonna go. PS: That 0.17 point difference between S/K and I/Z at Russian Nats just proves that these two teams are gonna continue to flip-flop non stop.

I don't think its as bad as you think. They have the talent and resources to bring out the best in all their teams but a bit of politics seems to be in play. Just my opinion. More time is needed. Katsalapov stalled progress by four years. Things will start to look better soon.

 

[Aqua Lady]

They do have the talent but the partnerships itself just don't work for some reason. Although he is inconsistent, Nikita is a strong skater, but with Victoria, them as a pair seem to be dull in comparison to Nikita and Elena together. As for I/Z, they're honestly a bit of a mess, which is very sad to watch. With respect to Ruslan and Victoria, I don't think either S/K or I/Z will be able to accomplish what I/K did...

 

[bramweld]

They do have the talent but the partnerships itself just don't work for some reason. Although he is inconsistent, Nikita is a strong skater, but with Victoria, them as a pair seems to be dull in comparison to Nikita and Elena together. As for I/Z, they're honestly a bit of a mess, which is very sad to watch. With respect to Ruslan and Victoria, I don't think either S/K or I/Z will be able to accomplish what I/K did...

Bukin is just as talented as Katsalapov and an added plus he's better at partnering skills; as a result he and Sasha look a lot more compelling on the ice this season. But the strongest of them all to me could be Pavel Drozd. His partner seems to be struggling to keep up, but we'll see. I/Z these last two seasons their issues were with either injury/form or one of their programs not being right; they also struggle with their feds narrow mindedness. Katsalapov is by his own admission a hothead and he didn't give ending his previous partnership sufficient thought, or maybe he did and skating with Lena was just too challenging for him. But the real flaw in his logic is not realising that just as talented or even more talented teams would be coming up the ranks. There are a number of promising juniors waiting in the wings. In time, Russian ID will find its way.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Agree with you on that. Among the Russian dance teams, I find myself personally drawn into S/B the most this season. They are improving and I hope they continue to grow. In fact, I think they could even possibly overtake B/S next season... But knowing the Russian Federation, I don't think they will allow it to happen, because B/S are the ultimate vets and it would be a shame if they retire as the second-placed Russian team. Nikita is indeed irrational and I hope he realizes what a mistake he made when he split up with Lena. Had they not split up, they could have been medalists or even champions at numerous major competitions such as Worlds, Euros, etc... They had the fire.

 

[Abraxis12345]

Sinitsina and Zhiganshin were solid, extremely disciplined skaters who, together, were never anything more than a number two team. I/K have huge character flaws and it seems no coach is able to truly solve. Unfortunately, the coach gets the blame rather than the skaters.

 

[bramweld]

Agree with you on that. Among the Russian dance teams, I find myself personally drawn into S/B the most this season. They are improving and I hope they continue to grow. In fact, I think they could even possibly overtake B/S next season... But knowing the Russian Federation, I don't think they will allow it to happen, because B/S are the ultimate vets and it would be a shame if they retire as the second-placed Russian team. Nikita is indeed irrational and I hope he realizes what a mistake he made when he split up with Lena. Had they not split up, they could have been medalists or even champions at numerous major competitions such as Worlds, Euros, etc... They had the fire.

I don't necessarily know how they would have worked out given Kats. temperament. He was able to hold himself together till OG but after that he just couldn't seem to hack it. Worlds 2014 was theirs for the taking, but he just messed it up. Its best to let the past stay in the past where I/K are concerned, IMHO. It was enough that we had them together for the time we did, and thats all.

 

[gmyers]

You want to remember I/K at their best but even after winning olympic bronze no medal at worlds like no medal at 2013 NHK trophy. It's very possible that in the 2014/2015 they wouldn't have medaled at either of their GP Events like no medal at 2013 NHK. They had such an extremely hostile work environment that in fact they actually rarely trained together compared to other teams. I think I read if other teams did 5 hours they did 1 or less. So that's why I predicted they would break up after 2013 NHK or earlier. It was inevitable. I would like s/k and i/z to break up because while S/Z may have been a number 2 team they were a solid team and russia needs more like that. Not these S/K and I/Z disasters.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Nevertheless, I honestly hope that Russia only earns two spots for ice dance at the Olympics next year. Russia doesn't need S/K and/or I/Z messing up their Olympic team. I'd rather place my bet on S/B.

 

[Marta25]

Sinitsina and Zhiganshin were solid, extremely disciplined skaters who, together, were never anything more than a number two team. I/K have huge character flaws and it seems no coach is able to truly solve. Unfortunately, the coach gets the blame rather than the skaters.

I think Sinitsina/Zhiganshin were at a point where they needed another coach to make that next step. It`s true that they never had I/K`s fire, but they could have developed a subtle and delicate style that would have been a nice contrast to I/K`s fire and drama.

Regarding Russia`s #1 after B/S retire, IMO, their is no guarantee at all that S/B are going to be the one. The main issue in the last three seasons was that none of the teams managed to have two good seasons back to back. I/Z failed to qualify for the team after winning the national title the previous season, S/K have injuries and the Canton drama to deal with and S/B stagnated last season after winning bronze at Euros and a top 10 placement at Worlds. I/Z have already confirmed that they will contiue until 2022, I`m not sure about S/K, but I guess they will also continue, so if S/K and I/Z can resolve their issues, it`s going to stay interesting at the top of Russian ice dance.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Long story short, it just pains/irritates me to see Russian Ice Dance like this and although some might say stop dwelling on the past, I really can't help but wonder what I/K could have been?... I go nuts everytime this question pops into my mind, because had they not split up, the general state/dynamic of Russian Ice Dance and Ice dance, as a sport itself, would be completely different. With the rankings so competitive going into an Olympic season, questions like these play with my mind... But then again, these are "what if" questions so...

 

[gmyers]

I think Sinitsina/Zhiganshin were at a point where they needed another coach to make that next step. It`s true that they never had I/K`s fire, but they could have developed a subtle and delicate style that would have been a nice contrast to I/K`s fire and drama.

Regarding Russia`s #1 after B/S retire, IMO, their is no guarantee at all that S/B are going to be the one. The main issue in the last three seasons was that none of the teams managed to have two good seasons back to back. I/Z failed to qualify for the team after winning the national title the previous season, S/K have injuries and the Canton drama to deal with and S/B stagnated last season after winning bronze at Euros and a top 10 placement at Worlds. I/Z have already confirmed that they will contiue until 2022, I`m not sure about S/K, but I guess they will also continue, so if S/K and I/Z can resolve their issues, it`s going to stay interesting at the top of Russian ice dance.

Ilynikh may have her training issues because of her alleged emotional states but Zhiganshin needs like a major type of adjustment. He can't just be there! He's like a block of wood! Why is his role model Margaglio? A man can't have Margaglio as a role model now. She can't be fusar poli and he can't be Margaglio. Judges want even distribution of talent. Not only judges IJS demands equal talent. He was more equal with Sinitsina. If you are skating with Ilynikh you must at least become 2/3 of a Ilynikh.

Nevertheless, I honestly hope that Russia only earns two spots for ice dance at the Olympics next year. Russia doesn't need S/K and/or I/Z messing up their Olympic team. I'd rather place my bet on S/B.

Im sure in the team event S/K or I/Z if there is a third will be completely ignored. But there is no chance of a third at all. It's the most unlikely thing in figure skating this decade. I think they should have 2 because they need to learn to change everything about ice dance and become more IJS. Send their best to north america which is where all the best teams train and not because of coincidence. Russian federation must abolish all notions of a "Russian school" which is a failing disaster.

Long story short, it just pains/irritates me to see Russian Ice Dance like this and although some might say stop dwelling on the past, I really can't help but wonder what I/K could have been?... I go nuts everytime this question pops into my mind, because had they not split up, the general state/dynamic of Russian Ice Dance and Ice dance, as a sport itself, would be completely different. With the rankings so competitive going into an Olympic season, questions like these play with my mind... But then again, these are "what if" questions so...

It may be different but not better for Russian ice dance.

 

[Aqua Lady]

Interesting you mentioned the whole Russian school thing, because that actually crossed my mind days ago... And I totally agree! I would like to see something different from the Russian Ice Dancers. Perhaps more lyrical, contemporary programs.. It seems like that's where ice dance is going right now. Don't get me wrong, I like classical programs too, but it's honestly getting sick with the Russians... They need fresh, new material to work with. I'm happy that S/B has a modern sort of SD this season. It's nice to see them incorporate a bit of hip hop to their program. And yes, it is tough to skate next to Lena. She's a powerhouse and I guess that's where the whole Nikita thing comes in again...Fire+Fire=... But I won't go further with that.

 

[lavoix]

It's sad to see so many top ice dance teams from Russia just split up for stupid reasons. I/Z then Y/M in juniors (who were so ready to dominate).

 

[madison]

It's sad to see so many top ice dance teams from Russia just split up for stupid reasons. I/Z then Y/M in juniors (who were so ready to dominate).

Ice dance is very much related to the cultural developments.
Papadakis/Cizeron found a style that is in line with the current developments in music and contemporary dance and I would dare to say that they even launched a new wave.
I don't see Russian school of ice dance approaches this path, and I don't think it will be wise to do that. Russian ice dance is traditionally more based on dramatic features and powerful skating. They should find the path incorporating these aspects.

 

[moriel]

Ice dance is very much related to the cultural developments.
Papadakis/Cizeron found a style that is in line with the current developments in music and contemporary dance and I would dare to say that they even launched a new wave.
I don't see Russian school of ice dance approaches this path, and I don't think it will be wise to do that. Russian ice dance is traditionally more based on dramatic features and powerful skating. They should find the path incorporating these aspects.

Also waves come and go, and we cannot really expect it to last forever. Imho, i feel fans are starting to get bored of the "everybody does contemporary" and soon everybody will want more drama.